NationStates

Kowani wrote:

Chernoslavia wrote:
That would be a valid argument if the person in question is infected with measles and is spreading it around.

No, actually. The prevention is better than the cure-especially when we know what will happen if there is no prevention.

Chernoslavia wrote:Wrong again.

So, do you plan on explaining how, or…?

Yet you can still be rid of measles if you seek treatment. You don't have the right to go out in public and infect others with measles, but that doesn't mean you can make people get vaccinated.

later.

Duhon wrote:

Chernoslavia wrote:
Nice strawman. Why are you pro-authority?

Because in this case the medical authorities have it right. Capisce?

Nope. You have no business to other people's bodies, you can restrict them from government services, you can try to stop them if they are infected AND go around spreading their disease in public, but you cannot and will not force people who are independent adults to get vaxxed. That's a bad idea.

Chernoslavia wrote:

Kowani wrote: No, actually. The prevention is better than the cure-especially when we know what will happen if there is no prevention.

So, do you plan on explaining how, or…?

Yet you can still be rid of measles if you seek treatment. You don't have the right to go out in public and infect others with measles, but that doesn't mean you can make people get vaccinated.

later.

Hmmmm? A highly contagious disease which can kill people? Yeaaa enforced vaccination is a good thing.

The Black Forrest wrote:

Chernoslavia wrote:
Yet you can still be rid of measles if you seek treatment. You don't have the right to go out in public and infect others with measles, but that doesn't mean you can make people get vaccinated.

later.

Hmmmm? A highly contagious disease which can kill people? Yeaaa enforced vaccination is a good thing.

Yet not a lot of people die from them, despite millions of people not getting vaccinated.

Please note that I'm not anti vaccination, I do not believe it causes autism, but I do not support government forcing it on people.

Oh, terrific.

I certainly hope that it ends quickly and does not come northwards to the Bay Area.

Chernoslavia wrote:

Duhon wrote:
Because in this case the medical authorities have it right. Capisce?

Nope. You have no business to other people's bodies, you can restrict them from government services, you can try to stop them if they are infected AND go around spreading their disease in public, but you cannot and will not force people who are independent adults to get vaxxed. That's a bad idea.

Except restricting them from government services inadvertently leaves them free to infect others, and leaving adults be while they are sick with easily preventable diseases leaves them free to spread their shit around. So long as they are ambulatory they will demand freedom of movement, and with their freedom of movement comes risks that I for one will not countenance.

Chernoslavia wrote:

The Black Forrest wrote:
Hmmmm? A highly contagious disease which can kill people? Yeaaa enforced vaccination is a good thing.

Yet not a lot of people die from them, despite millions of people not getting vaccinated.

Irrelevant and misleading. The disease is spreading. This disease was declared extinct in the US in 2000. These dumb fuck anti-vaxers brought it back in force.

Chernoslavia wrote:

Duhon wrote:
Because in this case the medical authorities have it right. Capisce?

Nope. You have no business to other people's bodies, you can restrict them from government services, you can try to stop them if they are infected AND go around spreading their disease in public, but you cannot and will not force people who are indemendent adults to get vaxxed. That's a bad idea.

The problem is people not getting their kids vaccinated.

And does the government have the right to quarantine unvaccinated individuals to a small island in the Pacific?

And did you see my post about the potential casualties of another global pandemic? 70 million plus. But so long as you have your imaginary liberty, all good right?

Chernoslavia wrote:

The Black Forrest wrote:
Hmmmm? A highly contagious disease which can kill people? Yeaaa enforced vaccination is a good thing.

Yet not a lot of people die from them, despite millions of people not getting vaccinated.

Stop lying to defend anti vaxxers please. It is getting old fast.

https://www.mphonline.org/truth-about-measles-vaccines/

measles killed many before vaccines were introduced. The only reason why people are not suffering on mass like they used to do is because many of us used are brains and got vaccinated.

Dooom35796821595 wrote:

Chernoslavia wrote:
Nope. You have no business to other people's bodies, you can restrict them from government services, you can try to stop them if they are infected AND go around spreading their disease in public, but you cannot and will not force people who are indemendent adults to get vaxxed. That's a bad idea.

The problem is people not getting their kids vaccinated.

And does the government have the right to quarantine unvaccinated individuals to a small island in the Pacific?

And did you see my post about the potential casualties of another global pandemic? 70 million plus. But so long as you have your imaginary liberty, all good right?

Not talking about kids, I'm talking about you guys thinking you have control over other people's bodies, people who are able to make their own decisions.

Never said they do, that's exactly what I'm against.

And I bet it's just as bullshit as AOC's endoftheworld fear mongering.

Chernoslavia wrote:

Dooom35796821595 wrote:
The problem is people not getting their kids vaccinated.

And does the government have the right to quarantine unvaccinated individuals to a small island in the Pacific?

And did you see my post about the potential casualties of another global pandemic? 70 million plus. But so long as you have your imaginary liberty, all good right?

Not talking about kids, I'm talking about you guys thinking you have control over other people's bodies, people who are able to make their own decisions.

Never said they do, that's exactly what I'm against.

And I bet it's just as bullshit as AOC's endoftheworld fear mongering.

A highly contagious disease which can kill people (not mentioning all the other things it does) over rules you silly FREEDUM!!!!! arguments.

Andsed wrote:

Chernoslavia wrote:
Yet not a lot of people die from them, despite millions of people not getting vaccinated.

Stop lying to defend anti vaxxers please. It is getting old fast.

https://www.mphonline.org/truth-about-measles-vaccines/

measles killed many before vaccines were introduced. The only reason why people are not suffering on mass like they used to do is because many of us used are brains and got vaccinated.

How am I lying? How many people actually die from measles in the US? Answer the question.

Chernoslavia wrote:

Dooom35796821595 wrote:
The problem is people not getting their kids vaccinated.

And does the government have the right to quarantine unvaccinated individuals to a small island in the Pacific?

And did you see my post about the potential casualties of another global pandemic? 70 million plus. But so long as you have your imaginary liberty, all good right?

Not talking about kids, I'm talking about you guys thinking you have control over other people's bodies, people who are able to make their own decisions.

Never said they do, that's exactly what I'm against.

And I bet it's just as bullshit as AOC's endoftheworld fear mongering.

Well, since most are vaccinated in childhood, it is mainly I’ll informed parents refusing to vaccinate their children causing the problem.

AOC? Would it kill people to type the words.
And it’s not fear mongering, it’s history and biology. Fact in other words. Vaccination should be mandatory, as well as an outreach and education program to inform people how important they are. Vaccines are regrettably a victim of their own success in preventing the spread of disease in that people have no living memory of how terrible life was before them.

The Black Forrest wrote:

Chernoslavia wrote:
Not talking about kids, I'm talking about you guys thinking you have control over other people's bodies, people who are able to make their own decisions.

Never said they do, that's exactly what I'm against.

And I bet it's just as bullshit as AOC's endoftheworld fear mongering.

A highly contagious disease which can kill people (not mentioning all the other things it does) over rules you silly FREEDUM!!!!! arguments.

No it doesn't, and you can go elsewhere with that authoritarian bullshit. Especially considering that millions of people don't get vaccinated yet most of them don't get infected still, it is a higher possibility for someone to get it if they aren't vaxxed, but it's more about exposure.

The Black Forrest wrote:

Chernoslavia wrote:
I got news for you then - Millions of Americans aren't vaccinated. Go cry about how me not being vaxxed somehow endangers you, but the fact of the matter is that you cannot force people to receive them especially if they aren't infected with anything.

Psssst. You know infants can't get vaccinated right?

What's your solution? They have to stay home so you can have your FREEDUM!!!!!

I mean, it does beg the question if your bodily autonomy can be violated by order of the state in order to save the life of another human being.

Chernoslavia wrote:

Andsed wrote:Stop lying to defend anti vaxxers please. It is getting old fast.

https://www.mphonline.org/truth-about-measles-vaccines/

measles killed many before vaccines were introduced. The only reason why people are not suffering on mass like they used to do is because many of us used are brains and got vaccinated.

How am I lying? How many people actually die from measles in the US? Answer the question.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... _inset.png

Oh look, a graph.

Inkopolitia wrote:

Valentine Z wrote:I want to point out that while the sources don't exactly pin the anti-vaxxers as the cause or the blame of this outbreak... I like to speculate that it might be them. I mean, measles is more or less under control in other countries, but it just so happens that California is having an outbreak possibly due to people not vaccinating even if they can.

I'm speculating a lot here.

It's practically the only reason I can think of. This wouldn't have happened if the individuals were vaccinated.

It could have been carried in by foreigners.

Chernoslavia wrote:

Andsed wrote:Stop lying to defend anti vaxxers please. It is getting old fast.

https://www.mphonline.org/truth-about-measles-vaccines/

measles killed many before vaccines were introduced. The only reason why people are not suffering on mass like they used to do is because many of us used are brains and got vaccinated.

How am I lying? How many people actually die from measles in the US? Answer the question.

Again misleading. The low death rate is the result of MMR.

Your FREEDUM!!!! does not overrule this.

Galloism wrote:

The Black Forrest wrote:
Psssst. You know infants can't get vaccinated right?

What's your solution? They have to stay home so you can have your FREEDUM!!!!!

I mean, it does beg the question if your bodily autonomy can be violated by order of the state in order to save the life of another human being.

The State can violate one’s bodily autonomy so as to prevent the bodily autonomy of others from being negatively violated.

Dooom35796821595 wrote:

Chernoslavia wrote:
Not talking about kids, I'm talking about you guys thinking you have control over other people's bodies, people who are able to make their own decisions.

Never said they do, that's exactly what I'm against.

And I bet it's just as bullshit as AOC's endoftheworld fear mongering.

Well, since most are vaccinated in childhood, it is mainly I’ll informed parents refusing to vaccinate their children causing the problem.

AOC? Would it kill people to type the words.
And it’s not fear mongering, it’s history and biology. Fact in other words. Vaccination should be mandatory, as well as an outreach and education program to inform people how important they are. Vaccines are regrettably a victim of their own success in preventing the spread of disease in that people have no living memory of how terrible life was before them.

Sadly yes, deny them public schooling and deny the parents services and you'll see how fast they'll change their minds.

Yeah but I don't give much of a shit to say her ridiculously long full name.

Chernoslavia wrote:

The Black Forrest wrote:
A highly contagious disease which can kill people (not mentioning all the other things it does) over rules you silly FREEDUM!!!!! arguments.

No it doesn't, and you can go elsewhere with that authoritarian bullshit. Especially considering that millions of people don't get vaccinated yet most of them don't get infected still, it is a higher possibility for someone to get it if they aren't vaxxed, but it's more about exposure.

*sighs* exposure rates increase due to the infection levels increasing. This is not that hard.

Your FREEDUM!!!! is irrelevant in this matter.

Kowani wrote:

Galloism wrote:I mean, it does beg the question if your bodily autonomy can be violated by order of the state in order to save the life of another human being.

The State can violate one’s bodily autonomy so as to prevent the bodily autonomy of others from being negatively violated.

Are you sure?

Galloism wrote:

Kowani wrote:The State can violate one’s bodily autonomy so as to prevent the bodily autonomy of others from being negatively violated.

Are you sure?

Hmmm. You can have exceptions for things like autoimmune issues.

Galloism wrote:

Kowani wrote:The State can violate one’s bodily autonomy so as to prevent the bodily autonomy of others from being negatively violated.

Are you sure?

Depends. Are we talking legality or practicality?

The Black Forrest wrote:

Galloism wrote:Are you sure?

Hmmm. You can have exceptions for things like autoimmune issues.

But otherwise, it’s ok to violate the bodily autonomy of Person A to protect Person B?