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Hundreds quarantined for measles in 2 CA universities.

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Chernoslavia
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Postby Chernoslavia » Fri May 17, 2019 8:00 pm

Thermodolia wrote:
Greater vakolicci haven wrote:Is supporting civil war against the rules here?

No not at all. It just gives me full power to start arresting and quarantining those who might be a threat


You ain't about that life, sit down.
What would things have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive? Or if during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand? The Organs would quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt!

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Duhon
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Postby Duhon » Fri May 17, 2019 8:00 pm

Chernoslavia wrote:
Duhon wrote:
And what guarantees that that stays that way? Vaccination.


Wrong.


:roll:

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Chernoslavia
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Postby Chernoslavia » Fri May 17, 2019 8:01 pm

Duhon wrote:
Chernoslavia wrote:
Wrong.


:roll:


:p
What would things have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive? Or if during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand? The Organs would quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt!

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Duhon
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Postby Duhon » Fri May 17, 2019 8:03 pm

Chernoslavia wrote:
Duhon wrote:
:roll:


:p


That tongue is in service of spreading diseases and causing epidemics by ignorance and deliberation.

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Andsed
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Postby Andsed » Fri May 17, 2019 8:03 pm

Chernoslavia wrote:
Duhon wrote:
And what guarantees that that stays that way? Vaccination.


Wrong.

Yes it is. Anyone who has a brain and understands anything about vaccines know that they are easily one of the greatest medical inventions of all time. They are the reason that measles cases dropped so much and why these outbreaks caused by people not getting vaccinated don't spread further.
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Chernoslavia
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Postby Chernoslavia » Fri May 17, 2019 8:09 pm

Duhon wrote:
Chernoslavia wrote:
:p


That tongue is in service of spreading diseases and causing epidemics by ignorance and deliberation.


Coming from the guy who says being vaccinated will guarantee you won't be infected with measles.
What would things have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive? Or if during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand? The Organs would quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt!

- Alexander Solzhenitsyn

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Chernoslavia
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Postby Chernoslavia » Fri May 17, 2019 8:09 pm

Andsed wrote:
Chernoslavia wrote:
Wrong.

Yes it is. Anyone who has a brain and understands anything about vaccines know that they are easily one of the greatest medical inventions of all time. They are the reason that measles cases dropped so much and why these outbreaks caused by people not getting vaccinated don't spread further.


Read above.
What would things have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive? Or if during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand? The Organs would quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt!

- Alexander Solzhenitsyn

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Inkopolitia
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Postby Inkopolitia » Fri May 17, 2019 8:11 pm

Chernoslavia wrote:
Duhon wrote:
And what guarantees that that stays that way? Vaccination.


Wrong.

So, your main argument about why you oppose mandatory vaccination is that they don't always work? What kind of argument is this? Are you saying that you'd rather risk the death of dozens of immunocompromised people and babies just because there's a one in a million chance that vaccines don't work?
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Kowani
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Postby Kowani » Fri May 17, 2019 8:16 pm

Chernoslavia wrote:
Andsed wrote:Yes it is. Anyone who has a brain and understands anything about vaccines know that they are easily one of the greatest medical inventions of all time. They are the reason that measles cases dropped so much and why these outbreaks caused by people not getting vaccinated don't spread further.


Read above.

This is like being against seatbelts because not every death is prevented.
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Duhon
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Postby Duhon » Fri May 17, 2019 8:21 pm

Chernoslavia wrote:
Duhon wrote:
That tongue is in service of spreading diseases and causing epidemics by ignorance and deliberation.


Coming from the guy who says being vaccinated will guarantee you won't be infected with measles.


... what insane logic is this? "Vaccines don't prevent infection in every case, therefore ditch vaccines and YOLO like before"?

Bear in mind that, in the case of measles, "before" meant a disease so common someone once quipped that catching it was as inevitable as death and taxes. You're saying a few deaths for the sake of bodily autonomy... is acceptable.
Last edited by Duhon on Fri May 17, 2019 8:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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The Greater Ohio Valley
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Postby The Greater Ohio Valley » Fri May 17, 2019 9:02 pm

Chernoslavia wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:Is that a threat I hear? So you’re supporting an armed Insurrection against the state then?


Of course, I support insurrections against government overreach. and for their own sake they'd best not implement what you propose.

I sense that you’d very likely change your tune really quick if there was another Spanish flu-level pandemic that killed hundreds of millions of people and the governments of the world mandated vaccination programs to stop it.
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The Free Joy State
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Postby The Free Joy State » Fri May 17, 2019 11:18 pm

Kowani wrote:
Chernoslavia wrote:
Read above.

This is like being against seatbelts because not every death is prevented.

Yep... Measles vaccines have a 97% immunity rate and have reduced the incidences of Measles from 500,000 reported cases, 3-4 million estimated, at its peak (including 400 to 500 deaths, 48,000 hospitalisations, and 1,000 cases of dangerous encephalitis from the reported cases) to several hundred cases a year (but rising, thanks to efforts to discourage vaccination -- at one time there was fewer than 100).

But vaccination is ineffective because a few people are immune to the vaccine. /s
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Hurtful Thoughts
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Postby Hurtful Thoughts » Fri May 17, 2019 11:58 pm

I'm a bit late to the Health-Impact-News bashing.... but it irk'd me that they got the definition of herd-immunity completely backwards.

It isn't to keep those vaccinated from getting sick off the unvaccinated... it's to keep the unvaccinated from coming into contact with a sick person, and thus effectively insulating them from the disease because there's nobody for them to get sick from unless they start licking random lightswitches.

If the vaccinated kid is getting sick off an unvaccinated one... herd immunity has already failed because the unvacinated kid somehow managed to get sick despite being surrounded by vaccinated kids as a buffer.

The 97% mark is a probability on how many people need to be vaccinated in order to make it unlikely for a disease to spread in a self-sustaining manner, and is usuallly a best-case scenario since anti-vaxxers tend to flock together it seems in yet another effort to remove themselves from the gene-pool.

...

When your uncle is a catttle-broker, you learn how to herd-immunity and how not to herd-immunity.
-If the measels-infected anti-vaxxing community were a dairy farm... we'd have to put down the entire stock and burn the remains to prevent the encephalitis from spreading.
--This often must be done without hesitation.
Last edited by Hurtful Thoughts on Sat May 18, 2019 12:07 am, edited 6 times in total.
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Great Eddy
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Postby Great Eddy » Sat May 18, 2019 12:45 am

This is what happens when we let misinformation spread.

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Duhon
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Postby Duhon » Sat May 18, 2019 12:46 am

Hurtful Thoughts wrote:... and is usuallly a best-case scenario since anti-vaxxers tend to flock together it seems in yet another effort to remove themselves from the gene-pool.


Aren't you an optimist.

Have antivaxxers gone so far as to call quarantine -- that other way of containing the spread of especially virulent pathogens -- some form of fake news, and so demand that they be allowed to do their daily chores unhampered even if they might be vectors?

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Postby Greater vakolicci haven » Sat May 18, 2019 12:57 am

Hurtful Thoughts wrote:I'm a bit late to the Health-Impact-News bashing.... but it irk'd me that they got the definition of herd-immunity completely backwards.

It isn't to keep those vaccinated from getting sick off the unvaccinated... it's to keep the unvaccinated from coming into contact with a sick person, and thus effectively insulating them from the disease because there's nobody for them to get sick from unless they start licking random lightswitches.

If the vaccinated kid is getting sick off an unvaccinated one... herd immunity has already failed because the unvacinated kid somehow managed to get sick despite being surrounded by vaccinated kids as a buffer.

The 97% mark is a probability on how many people need to be vaccinated in order to make it unlikely for a disease to spread in a self-sustaining manner, and is usuallly a best-case scenario since anti-vaxxers tend to flock together it seems in yet another effort to remove themselves from the gene-pool.

...

When your uncle is a catttle-broker, you learn how to herd-immunity and how not to herd-immunity.
-If the measels-infected anti-vaxxing community were a dairy farm... we'd have to put down the entire stock and burn the remains to prevent the encephalitis from spreading.
--This often must be done without hesitation.

You seem to assume disease is a bad thing.
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The Free Joy State
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Postby The Free Joy State » Sat May 18, 2019 1:02 am

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
Hurtful Thoughts wrote:I'm a bit late to the Health-Impact-News bashing.... but it irk'd me that they got the definition of herd-immunity completely backwards.

It isn't to keep those vaccinated from getting sick off the unvaccinated... it's to keep the unvaccinated from coming into contact with a sick person, and thus effectively insulating them from the disease because there's nobody for them to get sick from unless they start licking random lightswitches.

If the vaccinated kid is getting sick off an unvaccinated one... herd immunity has already failed because the unvacinated kid somehow managed to get sick despite being surrounded by vaccinated kids as a buffer.

The 97% mark is a probability on how many people need to be vaccinated in order to make it unlikely for a disease to spread in a self-sustaining manner, and is usuallly a best-case scenario since anti-vaxxers tend to flock together it seems in yet another effort to remove themselves from the gene-pool.

...

When your uncle is a catttle-broker, you learn how to herd-immunity and how not to herd-immunity.
-If the measels-infected anti-vaxxing community were a dairy farm... we'd have to put down the entire stock and burn the remains to prevent the encephalitis from spreading.
--This often must be done without hesitation.

You seem to assume disease is a bad thing.

I'd have thought it's a pretty safe assumption that people dying due to preventable, debilitating and painful diseases is a bad thing.
Last edited by The Free Joy State on Sat May 18, 2019 1:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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The Greater Ohio Valley
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Postby The Greater Ohio Valley » Sat May 18, 2019 1:23 am

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
Hurtful Thoughts wrote:I'm a bit late to the Health-Impact-News bashing.... but it irk'd me that they got the definition of herd-immunity completely backwards.

It isn't to keep those vaccinated from getting sick off the unvaccinated... it's to keep the unvaccinated from coming into contact with a sick person, and thus effectively insulating them from the disease because there's nobody for them to get sick from unless they start licking random lightswitches.

If the vaccinated kid is getting sick off an unvaccinated one... herd immunity has already failed because the unvacinated kid somehow managed to get sick despite being surrounded by vaccinated kids as a buffer.

The 97% mark is a probability on how many people need to be vaccinated in order to make it unlikely for a disease to spread in a self-sustaining manner, and is usuallly a best-case scenario since anti-vaxxers tend to flock together it seems in yet another effort to remove themselves from the gene-pool.

...

When your uncle is a catttle-broker, you learn how to herd-immunity and how not to herd-immunity.
-If the measels-infected anti-vaxxing community were a dairy farm... we'd have to put down the entire stock and burn the remains to prevent the encephalitis from spreading.
--This often must be done without hesitation.

You seem to assume disease is a bad thing.

Disease is a bad thing. Why would it be a good thing?
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Duhon
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Postby Duhon » Sat May 18, 2019 1:24 am

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
Hurtful Thoughts wrote:I'm a bit late to the Health-Impact-News bashing.... but it irk'd me that they got the definition of herd-immunity completely backwards.

It isn't to keep those vaccinated from getting sick off the unvaccinated... it's to keep the unvaccinated from coming into contact with a sick person, and thus effectively insulating them from the disease because there's nobody for them to get sick from unless they start licking random lightswitches.

If the vaccinated kid is getting sick off an unvaccinated one... herd immunity has already failed because the unvacinated kid somehow managed to get sick despite being surrounded by vaccinated kids as a buffer.

The 97% mark is a probability on how many people need to be vaccinated in order to make it unlikely for a disease to spread in a self-sustaining manner, and is usuallly a best-case scenario since anti-vaxxers tend to flock together it seems in yet another effort to remove themselves from the gene-pool.

...

When your uncle is a catttle-broker, you learn how to herd-immunity and how not to herd-immunity.
-If the measels-infected anti-vaxxing community were a dairy farm... we'd have to put down the entire stock and burn the remains to prevent the encephalitis from spreading.
--This often must be done without hesitation.

You seem to assume disease is a bad thing.


OK, what villainous cackle is this?

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Neanderthaland
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Postby Neanderthaland » Sat May 18, 2019 1:56 am

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
Hurtful Thoughts wrote:I'm a bit late to the Health-Impact-News bashing.... but it irk'd me that they got the definition of herd-immunity completely backwards.

It isn't to keep those vaccinated from getting sick off the unvaccinated... it's to keep the unvaccinated from coming into contact with a sick person, and thus effectively insulating them from the disease because there's nobody for them to get sick from unless they start licking random lightswitches.

If the vaccinated kid is getting sick off an unvaccinated one... herd immunity has already failed because the unvacinated kid somehow managed to get sick despite being surrounded by vaccinated kids as a buffer.

The 97% mark is a probability on how many people need to be vaccinated in order to make it unlikely for a disease to spread in a self-sustaining manner, and is usuallly a best-case scenario since anti-vaxxers tend to flock together it seems in yet another effort to remove themselves from the gene-pool.

...

When your uncle is a catttle-broker, you learn how to herd-immunity and how not to herd-immunity.
-If the measels-infected anti-vaxxing community were a dairy farm... we'd have to put down the entire stock and burn the remains to prevent the encephalitis from spreading.
--This often must be done without hesitation.

You seem to assume disease is a bad thing.

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Duhon
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Postby Duhon » Sat May 18, 2019 2:08 am

Look, diseases may kill and maim a whole lot of people, but hey, the afflicted learn the virtues of being human and pass it on before they pass on!

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Thermodolia
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Postby Thermodolia » Sat May 18, 2019 3:05 am

Chernoslavia wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:Then kindly explain why we are having all of these outbreaks?


Merely being unvaxxed doesn't put anyone in danger.

Actually it does. As it puts you at higher risk of catching a deadly disease

Chernoslavia wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:Ya know you keep say that your not anti-vaccines yet you keep using language and terms that anti-vaxxers use, like “vaxxed” for instance


Association fallacy.

No it’s not a fallacy. You are pretty much an anti-vaxxer. You use the same language, terminology, and you refuse to believe that being unvaccinated is harmful.

You’re just mad I called you out on your bullshit

Chernoslavia wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:Is that a threat I hear? So you’re supporting an armed Insurrection against the state then?


Of course, I support insurrections against government overreach. and for their own sake they'd best not implement what you propose.

The FBI and CIA thanks you. Don’t worry I’m sure ADX Florence has something to entertain you

Chernoslavia wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:No not at all. It just gives me full power to start arresting and quarantining those who might be a threat


You ain't about that life, sit down.

What? You think that only you can make outlandish claims? Have you seen what I’ve advocated?
Last edited by Thermodolia on Sat May 18, 2019 3:15 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Thermodolia
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Postby Thermodolia » Sat May 18, 2019 3:17 am

Duhon wrote:
Hurtful Thoughts wrote:... and is usuallly a best-case scenario since anti-vaxxers tend to flock together it seems in yet another effort to remove themselves from the gene-pool.


Aren't you an optimist.

Have antivaxxers gone so far as to call quarantine -- that other way of containing the spread of especially virulent pathogens -- some form of fake news, and so demand that they be allowed to do their daily chores unhampered even if they might be vectors?

That’s not what they are saying. He’s basically saying that Anti-vaxxers and those who support them should be separated from society permanently
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Duhon
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Postby Duhon » Sat May 18, 2019 3:20 am

Thermodolia wrote:
Duhon wrote:
Aren't you an optimist.

Have antivaxxers gone so far as to call quarantine -- that other way of containing the spread of especially virulent pathogens -- some form of fake news, and so demand that they be allowed to do their daily chores unhampered even if they might be vectors?

That’s not what they are saying. He’s basically saying that Anti-vaxxers and those who support them should be separated from society permanently


I was asking a question, not framing HT's post, unless I misunderstood.

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Kinectia
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Postby Kinectia » Sat May 18, 2019 4:59 am

Strange - I don’t see much about education here. There was a time about 20 yrs ago when vaccinations were correlated with an increase in autism. A lot of people were concerned about that and were hesitant about vaccinations as a result. Then a lot of doctors and researchers helped clarify that correlation is not causation, and put some effort into explaining to parents which vaccinations were being given and why. If a parent is mandated to get their child vaccinated with MMR, MMRV, DTaP or any other combination of acronyms, you can expect some pushback. If an explanation is given in easy to understand terms, then compliance is much easier. It only takes a few minutes and no, handing out a printed flier doesn’t count.
I agree with requirements for proof of vaccinations before attending school, summer camp, dance class, sports teams, etc., and registration for these makes that easy and normalizes the idea. When you say it’s mandatory, people get scared. When you say everyone needs to do it before they can participate in X, it’s not so scary - it’s understandable. A basic education about viruses and how they spread is also important. When you tell someone they can be infected with measles by a carrier who left the room hours ago, that’s easy to understand. I don’t take issue with vaccinations - but I do with “mandatory” and “quarantine.”

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