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Hundreds quarantined for measles in 2 CA universities.

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Galloism
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Father Knows Best State

Postby Galloism » Tue May 14, 2019 8:42 pm

The Black Forrest wrote:
Galloism wrote:Are you sure?


Hmmm. You can have exceptions for things like autoimmune issues.

But otherwise, it’s ok to violate the bodily autonomy of Person A to protect Person B?
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
The Parkus Empire: Being serious on NSG is like wearing a suit to a nude beach.
New Kereptica: Since power is changed energy over time, an increase in power would mean, in this case, an increase in energy. As energy is equivalent to mass and the density of the government is static, the volume of the government must increase.


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Chernoslavia
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Postby Chernoslavia » Tue May 14, 2019 8:43 pm

The Black Forrest wrote:
Chernoslavia wrote:
How am I lying? How many people actually die from measles in the US? Answer the question.


Again misleading. The low death rate is the result of MMR.

Your FREEDUM!!!! does not overrule this.


Never said it wasn't.

Socialist Republic of Oceania is that way
What would things have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive? Or if during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand? The Organs would quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt!

- Alexander Solzhenitsyn

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The Black Forrest
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Postby The Black Forrest » Tue May 14, 2019 8:44 pm

Galloism wrote:
The Black Forrest wrote:
Hmmm. You can have exceptions for things like autoimmune issues.

But otherwise, it’s ok to violate the bodily autonomy of Person A to protect Person B?


A highly contagious disease? Yes.
*I am a master proofreader after I click Submit.
* There is actually a War on Christmas. But Christmas started it, with it's unparalleled aggression against the Thanksgiving Holiday, and now Christmas has seized much Lebensraum in November, and are pushing into October. The rest of us seek to repel these invaders, and push them back to the status quo ante bellum Black Friday border. -Trotskylvania
* Silence Is Golden But Duct Tape Is Silver.
* I felt like Ayn Rand cornered me at a party, and three minutes in I found my first objection to what she was saying, but she kept talking without interruption for ten more days. - Max Barry talking about Atlas Shrugged

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Galloism
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Founded: Aug 20, 2005
Father Knows Best State

Postby Galloism » Tue May 14, 2019 8:44 pm

Kowani wrote:
Galloism wrote:Are you sure?

Depends. Are we talking legality or practicality?

I’m asking you to confirm if it’s ok for the state to violate the bodily autonomy of Person A to protect Person B from harm.
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
The Parkus Empire: Being serious on NSG is like wearing a suit to a nude beach.
New Kereptica: Since power is changed energy over time, an increase in power would mean, in this case, an increase in energy. As energy is equivalent to mass and the density of the government is static, the volume of the government must increase.


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Chernoslavia
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Founded: Jun 13, 2011
Corporate Bordello

Postby Chernoslavia » Tue May 14, 2019 8:45 pm

Kowani wrote:
Galloism wrote:I mean, it does beg the question if your bodily autonomy can be violated by order of the state in order to save the life of another human being.

The State can violate one’s bodily autonomy so as to prevent the bodily autonomy of others from being negatively violated.


IF the person is infected and spreading it maybe, otherwise you can't do shit.
What would things have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive? Or if during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand? The Organs would quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt!

- Alexander Solzhenitsyn

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Galloism
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Posts: 60306
Founded: Aug 20, 2005
Father Knows Best State

Postby Galloism » Tue May 14, 2019 8:46 pm

The Black Forrest wrote:
Galloism wrote:But otherwise, it’s ok to violate the bodily autonomy of Person A to protect Person B?


A highly contagious disease? Yes.

You’re attempting to narrow your answer to the question without any explanation as to the narrowing, but I’m not sure why.
Last edited by Galloism on Tue May 14, 2019 8:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
The Parkus Empire: Being serious on NSG is like wearing a suit to a nude beach.
New Kereptica: Since power is changed energy over time, an increase in power would mean, in this case, an increase in energy. As energy is equivalent to mass and the density of the government is static, the volume of the government must increase.


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The Black Forrest
Post Czar
 
Posts: 35271
Founded: Antiquity
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Black Forrest » Tue May 14, 2019 8:46 pm

Chernoslavia wrote:
Kowani wrote:The State can violate one’s bodily autonomy so as to prevent the bodily autonomy of others from being negatively violated.


IF the person is infected and spreading it maybe, otherwise you can't do shit.


What was that about being pro-disease?
*I am a master proofreader after I click Submit.
* There is actually a War on Christmas. But Christmas started it, with it's unparalleled aggression against the Thanksgiving Holiday, and now Christmas has seized much Lebensraum in November, and are pushing into October. The rest of us seek to repel these invaders, and push them back to the status quo ante bellum Black Friday border. -Trotskylvania
* Silence Is Golden But Duct Tape Is Silver.
* I felt like Ayn Rand cornered me at a party, and three minutes in I found my first objection to what she was saying, but she kept talking without interruption for ten more days. - Max Barry talking about Atlas Shrugged

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The Black Forrest
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Founded: Antiquity
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Black Forrest » Tue May 14, 2019 8:49 pm

Galloism wrote:
The Black Forrest wrote:
A highly contagious disease? Yes.

You’re attempting to narrow your answer to the question, but I’m not sure why.


How is the question of measles vaccines narrowing an answer?

A highly contagious disease is a damn good reason to "violate" "body integrity"

I sometimes wonder if libertarians were behind the vaccine causes autism nonsense which started this crap?
Last edited by The Black Forrest on Tue May 14, 2019 8:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
*I am a master proofreader after I click Submit.
* There is actually a War on Christmas. But Christmas started it, with it's unparalleled aggression against the Thanksgiving Holiday, and now Christmas has seized much Lebensraum in November, and are pushing into October. The rest of us seek to repel these invaders, and push them back to the status quo ante bellum Black Friday border. -Trotskylvania
* Silence Is Golden But Duct Tape Is Silver.
* I felt like Ayn Rand cornered me at a party, and three minutes in I found my first objection to what she was saying, but she kept talking without interruption for ten more days. - Max Barry talking about Atlas Shrugged

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Chernoslavia
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Posts: 8381
Founded: Jun 13, 2011
Corporate Bordello

Postby Chernoslavia » Tue May 14, 2019 8:49 pm

The Black Forrest wrote:
Chernoslavia wrote:
IF the person is infected and spreading it maybe, otherwise you can't do shit.


What was that about being pro-disease?


:roll:
What would things have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive? Or if during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand? The Organs would quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt!

- Alexander Solzhenitsyn

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Kowani
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Posts: 15295
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Tue May 14, 2019 8:49 pm

Galloism wrote:
Kowani wrote:Depends. Are we talking legality or practicality?

I’m asking you to confirm if it’s ok for the state to violate the bodily autonomy of Person A to protect Person B from harm.

Yes.
Chernoslavia wrote:
Kowani wrote:The State can violate one’s bodily autonomy so as to prevent the bodily autonomy of others from being negatively violated.


IF the person is infected and spreading it maybe, otherwise you can't do shit.

Nope. If they aren’t vaccinated.
Narcissistic (Hedonistic) Nihilist. Yes, I am edgy. I know.
Atheist and still proud of it.
Post-Capitalist, Post-Nationalist.
Rights are functionally just privileges society has deemed important.
Prydania wrote:
As a Canadian? I find Americans and their deep, deep distrust of the government to be fundamentally, critically, laughably flawed. I find some aspects of your country completely absurd. The distrust of anything remotely resembling authority is one. The gun problem that stems from that is another.

Seangoli wrote:You are spouting nonsensical drivel with no coherent thought, little logic, and at the end of it all just angry opining at the clouds based on a truly astonishly low level of knowledge or understanding of the subject matter.

0% Capitalism

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Chernoslavia
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8381
Founded: Jun 13, 2011
Corporate Bordello

Postby Chernoslavia » Tue May 14, 2019 8:50 pm

Kowani wrote:
Galloism wrote:I’m asking you to confirm if it’s ok for the state to violate the bodily autonomy of Person A to protect Person B from harm.

Yes.
Chernoslavia wrote:
IF the person is infected and spreading it maybe, otherwise you can't do shit.

Nope. If they aren’t vaccinated.


Can't do that and you won't.
Last edited by Chernoslavia on Tue May 14, 2019 8:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
What would things have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive? Or if during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand? The Organs would quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt!

- Alexander Solzhenitsyn

User avatar
The Black Forrest
Post Czar
 
Posts: 35271
Founded: Antiquity
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Black Forrest » Tue May 14, 2019 8:51 pm

Chernoslavia wrote:
Kowani wrote:Yes.
Nope. If they aren’t vaccinated.


Can't do that and you won't.


Hmmm? If there is a vote on enforcement? Guess what he will vote for.....
*I am a master proofreader after I click Submit.
* There is actually a War on Christmas. But Christmas started it, with it's unparalleled aggression against the Thanksgiving Holiday, and now Christmas has seized much Lebensraum in November, and are pushing into October. The rest of us seek to repel these invaders, and push them back to the status quo ante bellum Black Friday border. -Trotskylvania
* Silence Is Golden But Duct Tape Is Silver.
* I felt like Ayn Rand cornered me at a party, and three minutes in I found my first objection to what she was saying, but she kept talking without interruption for ten more days. - Max Barry talking about Atlas Shrugged

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Kowani
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Posts: 15295
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Tue May 14, 2019 8:52 pm

Chernoslavia wrote:
Kowani wrote:Yes.
Nope. If they aren’t vaccinated.


Can't do that and you won't.

I am arguing from a should perspective, but we’ve done this song and dance already.
Narcissistic (Hedonistic) Nihilist. Yes, I am edgy. I know.
Atheist and still proud of it.
Post-Capitalist, Post-Nationalist.
Rights are functionally just privileges society has deemed important.
Prydania wrote:
As a Canadian? I find Americans and their deep, deep distrust of the government to be fundamentally, critically, laughably flawed. I find some aspects of your country completely absurd. The distrust of anything remotely resembling authority is one. The gun problem that stems from that is another.

Seangoli wrote:You are spouting nonsensical drivel with no coherent thought, little logic, and at the end of it all just angry opining at the clouds based on a truly astonishly low level of knowledge or understanding of the subject matter.

0% Capitalism

User avatar
Galloism
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 60306
Founded: Aug 20, 2005
Father Knows Best State

Postby Galloism » Tue May 14, 2019 8:53 pm

Kowani wrote:
Galloism wrote:I’m asking you to confirm if it’s ok for the state to violate the bodily autonomy of Person A to protect Person B from harm.

Yes.

The Black Forrest wrote:
Galloism wrote:You’re attempting to narrow your answer to the question, but I’m not sure why.


How is the question of measles vaccines narrowing an answer?

A highly contagious disease is a damn good reason to "violate" "body integrity"

I sometimes wonder if libertarians on behind the vaccine causes autism nonsense which started this crap?

I’m asking for a particular reason. Has nothing to do with autism.

This notion, that we can forcibly vaccinate a person, temporarily violating their bodily autonomy, in order to protect a third party from harm is extremely problematic.

Namely, it gives extremely good cover to antiabortion activists, who are arguing roughly the same thing and for the same reason, that the violation of bodily autonomy is only temporary but it protects a third party from death.

I’m a big fan of vaccines, they’ve done more good than most people understand, but as soon as you go down that road that we can violate bodily autonomy to protect a third party, you open yourself to consequences we don’t want as a society.
Last edited by Galloism on Tue May 14, 2019 8:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
The Parkus Empire: Being serious on NSG is like wearing a suit to a nude beach.
New Kereptica: Since power is changed energy over time, an increase in power would mean, in this case, an increase in energy. As energy is equivalent to mass and the density of the government is static, the volume of the government must increase.


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Gormwood
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Posts: 4218
Founded: Mar 25, 2019
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Gormwood » Tue May 14, 2019 8:54 pm

Galloism wrote:
Neanderthaland wrote:Because medical authorities know what they're talking about. Unlike wacko, homeopathic, anti-vax horseshit peddlers.

Once people are adults though, there’s that whole bodily autonomy problem one might say.

If only that was the case instead of anti-vaxxers already being vaccinated and turning their children into Nurglings.
Bloodthirsty savages who call for violence against the Right while simultaneously being unarmed defenseless sissies who will get slaughtered by the gun-toting Right in a civil war.
Breath So Bad, It Actually Drives People Mad

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Galloism
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Founded: Aug 20, 2005
Father Knows Best State

Postby Galloism » Tue May 14, 2019 8:56 pm

Gormwood wrote:
Galloism wrote:Once people are adults though, there’s that whole bodily autonomy problem one might say.

If only that was the case instead of anti-vaxxers already being vaccinated and turning their children into Nurglings.

And of course we can do things about that. Child welfare is a well established legal principle.
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
The Parkus Empire: Being serious on NSG is like wearing a suit to a nude beach.
New Kereptica: Since power is changed energy over time, an increase in power would mean, in this case, an increase in energy. As energy is equivalent to mass and the density of the government is static, the volume of the government must increase.


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Kowani
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Posts: 15295
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Tue May 14, 2019 8:57 pm

Galloism wrote:
Kowani wrote:Yes.

The Black Forrest wrote:
How is the question of measles vaccines narrowing an answer?

A highly contagious disease is a damn good reason to "violate" "body integrity"

I sometimes wonder if libertarians on behind the vaccine causes autism nonsense which started this crap?

I’m asking for a particular reason. Has nothing to do with autism.

This notion, that we can forcibly vaccinate a person, temporarily violating their bodily autonomy, in order to protect a third party from harm is extremely problematic.

Namely, it gives extremely good cover to antiabortion activists, who are arguing roughly the same thing and for the same reason, that the violation of bodily autonomy is only temporary but it protects a third party from death.

I’m a big fan of vaccines, they’ve done more good than most people understand, but as soon as you go down that road that we can violate bodily autonomy to protect a third party, you open yourself to consequences we don’t want as a society.

The other third party is a person with autonomy and agency, a fetus is neither of those things. Heck, it’s not sapient most of the time. The rest of the general public is.
Narcissistic (Hedonistic) Nihilist. Yes, I am edgy. I know.
Atheist and still proud of it.
Post-Capitalist, Post-Nationalist.
Rights are functionally just privileges society has deemed important.
Prydania wrote:
As a Canadian? I find Americans and their deep, deep distrust of the government to be fundamentally, critically, laughably flawed. I find some aspects of your country completely absurd. The distrust of anything remotely resembling authority is one. The gun problem that stems from that is another.

Seangoli wrote:You are spouting nonsensical drivel with no coherent thought, little logic, and at the end of it all just angry opining at the clouds based on a truly astonishly low level of knowledge or understanding of the subject matter.

0% Capitalism

User avatar
Chernoslavia
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8381
Founded: Jun 13, 2011
Corporate Bordello

Postby Chernoslavia » Tue May 14, 2019 8:57 pm

Kowani wrote:
Chernoslavia wrote:
Can't do that and you won't.

I am arguing from a should perspective, but we’ve done this song and dance already.


We shouldn't as it could lead to things that are beyond the government's control.
What would things have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive? Or if during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand? The Organs would quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt!

- Alexander Solzhenitsyn

User avatar
Kowani
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15295
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Tue May 14, 2019 9:00 pm

Chernoslavia wrote:
Kowani wrote:I am arguing from a should perspective, but we’ve done this song and dance already.


We shouldn't as it could lead to things that are beyond the government's control.

What?
Narcissistic (Hedonistic) Nihilist. Yes, I am edgy. I know.
Atheist and still proud of it.
Post-Capitalist, Post-Nationalist.
Rights are functionally just privileges society has deemed important.
Prydania wrote:
As a Canadian? I find Americans and their deep, deep distrust of the government to be fundamentally, critically, laughably flawed. I find some aspects of your country completely absurd. The distrust of anything remotely resembling authority is one. The gun problem that stems from that is another.

Seangoli wrote:You are spouting nonsensical drivel with no coherent thought, little logic, and at the end of it all just angry opining at the clouds based on a truly astonishly low level of knowledge or understanding of the subject matter.

0% Capitalism

User avatar
The Black Forrest
Post Czar
 
Posts: 35271
Founded: Antiquity
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Black Forrest » Tue May 14, 2019 9:00 pm

Galloism wrote:
Kowani wrote:Yes.

The Black Forrest wrote:
How is the question of measles vaccines narrowing an answer?

A highly contagious disease is a damn good reason to "violate" "body integrity"

I sometimes wonder if libertarians on behind the vaccine causes autism nonsense which started this crap?

I’m asking for a particular reason. Has nothing to do with autism.

This notion, that we can forcibly vaccinate a person, temporarily violating their bodily autonomy, in order to protect a third party from harm is extremely problematic.

Namely, it gives extremely good cover to antiabortion activists, who are arguing roughly the same thing and for the same reason, that the violation of bodily autonomy is only temporary but it protects a third party from death.

I’m a big fan of vaccines, they’ve done more good than most people understand, but as soon as you go down that road that we can violate bodily autonomy to protect a third party, you open yourself to consequences we don’t want as a society.


Obviously not every vaccine should be enforced. They tried in impress on my girl to get the uterine cancer vaccine. We declined due to her age (4th grade) never mind it wasn't contagious.

Measles is contagious and was extinct. Body integrity brought it back.

This being an argument for abortion? Bring it on; if they haven't tried already. Never mind they aren't concerned about the concept of body integrity.
*I am a master proofreader after I click Submit.
* There is actually a War on Christmas. But Christmas started it, with it's unparalleled aggression against the Thanksgiving Holiday, and now Christmas has seized much Lebensraum in November, and are pushing into October. The rest of us seek to repel these invaders, and push them back to the status quo ante bellum Black Friday border. -Trotskylvania
* Silence Is Golden But Duct Tape Is Silver.
* I felt like Ayn Rand cornered me at a party, and three minutes in I found my first objection to what she was saying, but she kept talking without interruption for ten more days. - Max Barry talking about Atlas Shrugged

User avatar
Gormwood
Senator
 
Posts: 4218
Founded: Mar 25, 2019
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Gormwood » Tue May 14, 2019 9:01 pm

Kowani wrote:
Chernoslavia wrote:
We shouldn't as it could lead to things that are beyond the government's control.

What?

Red Plague Good, Gubmint BAD!
Bloodthirsty savages who call for violence against the Right while simultaneously being unarmed defenseless sissies who will get slaughtered by the gun-toting Right in a civil war.
Breath So Bad, It Actually Drives People Mad

User avatar
Galloism
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 60306
Founded: Aug 20, 2005
Father Knows Best State

Postby Galloism » Tue May 14, 2019 9:01 pm

Kowani wrote:
Galloism wrote:
I’m asking for a particular reason. Has nothing to do with autism.

This notion, that we can forcibly vaccinate a person, temporarily violating their bodily autonomy, in order to protect a third party from harm is extremely problematic.

Namely, it gives extremely good cover to antiabortion activists, who are arguing roughly the same thing and for the same reason, that the violation of bodily autonomy is only temporary but it protects a third party from death.

I’m a big fan of vaccines, they’ve done more good than most people understand, but as soon as you go down that road that we can violate bodily autonomy to protect a third party, you open yourself to consequences we don’t want as a society.

The other third party is a person with autonomy and agency, a fetus is neither of those things. Heck, it’s not sapient most of the time. The rest of the general public is.

Babies aren’t sapient either, for the record. It’s a little fuzzy, but we tend to think of them as sapient when they can pass the mirror test, usually somewhere between 18 and 24 months.
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
The Parkus Empire: Being serious on NSG is like wearing a suit to a nude beach.
New Kereptica: Since power is changed energy over time, an increase in power would mean, in this case, an increase in energy. As energy is equivalent to mass and the density of the government is static, the volume of the government must increase.


User avatar
Kowani
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15295
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Tue May 14, 2019 9:03 pm

Galloism wrote:
Kowani wrote:The other third party is a person with autonomy and agency, a fetus is neither of those things. Heck, it’s not sapient most of the time. The rest of the general public is.

Babies aren’t sapient either, for the record. It’s a little fuzzy, but we tend to think of them as sapient when they can pass the mirror test, usually somewhere between 18 and 24 months.

Fair, but they’re not the only ones endangered by the lack of vaccination.
Narcissistic (Hedonistic) Nihilist. Yes, I am edgy. I know.
Atheist and still proud of it.
Post-Capitalist, Post-Nationalist.
Rights are functionally just privileges society has deemed important.
Prydania wrote:
As a Canadian? I find Americans and their deep, deep distrust of the government to be fundamentally, critically, laughably flawed. I find some aspects of your country completely absurd. The distrust of anything remotely resembling authority is one. The gun problem that stems from that is another.

Seangoli wrote:You are spouting nonsensical drivel with no coherent thought, little logic, and at the end of it all just angry opining at the clouds based on a truly astonishly low level of knowledge or understanding of the subject matter.

0% Capitalism

User avatar
Gormwood
Senator
 
Posts: 4218
Founded: Mar 25, 2019
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Gormwood » Tue May 14, 2019 9:03 pm

The Black Forrest wrote:
Galloism wrote:
I’m asking for a particular reason. Has nothing to do with autism.

This notion, that we can forcibly vaccinate a person, temporarily violating their bodily autonomy, in order to protect a third party from harm is extremely problematic.

Namely, it gives extremely good cover to antiabortion activists, who are arguing roughly the same thing and for the same reason, that the violation of bodily autonomy is only temporary but it protects a third party from death.

I’m a big fan of vaccines, they’ve done more good than most people understand, but as soon as you go down that road that we can violate bodily autonomy to protect a third party, you open yourself to consequences we don’t want as a society.


Obviously not every vaccine should be enforced. They tried in impress on my girl to get the uterine cancer vaccine. We declined due to her age (4th grade) never mind it wasn't contagious.

Measles is contagious and was extinct. Body integrity brought it back.

This being an argument for abortion? Bring it on; if they haven't tried already. Never mind they aren't concerned about the concept of body integrity.

Say, does measles cause birth defects? If they're consistently pro-life and not merely fetus fetishists it might be something they should worry about.
Bloodthirsty savages who call for violence against the Right while simultaneously being unarmed defenseless sissies who will get slaughtered by the gun-toting Right in a civil war.
Breath So Bad, It Actually Drives People Mad

User avatar
Chernoslavia
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Posts: 8381
Founded: Jun 13, 2011
Corporate Bordello

Postby Chernoslavia » Tue May 14, 2019 9:04 pm

Kowani wrote:
Chernoslavia wrote:
We shouldn't as it could lead to things that are beyond the government's control.

What?

You're going get many people refusing to get vaccinated along with armed patriot groups who aren't just going to stand idly by as you drag their friends and neighbors out of their homes.
What would things have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive? Or if during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand? The Organs would quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt!

- Alexander Solzhenitsyn

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