Hundreds quarantined for measles in 2 CA universities.

[Chernoslavia]

Not an argument.

Actually it is. You're the only one who think public health is optional.

It is. People aren't obligated to get vaccinated.

[Indig0]

People are advocating for adults, people who are old enough to make their own decisions, to be forced at gun point to take vaccines.

News Flash: The adult antivaxxers are already vaccinated. It's their idiocy in refusing to have their children vaccinated for a variety of inane beliefs that is resulting the Measles Comeback Tour.

News flash: adults who got vaccinated as kids are no longer immune to measles. Vaccine immunity wears off over time. Unlike real immunity, it doesn’t last a lifetime.
Most of the outbreaks occur infecting mostly people (including children) who already got vaccinated against the disease.

[Kowani]

Actually it is. You're the only one who think public health is optional.

It is. People aren't obligated to get vaccinated.

Yet.

[Kowani]

News Flash: The adult antivaxxers are already vaccinated. It's their idiocy in refusing to have their children vaccinated for a variety of inane beliefs that is resulting the Measles Comeback Tour.

News flash: adults who got vaccinated as kids are no longer immune to measles. Vaccine immunity wears off over time. Unlike real immunity, it doesn’t last a lifetime.
Most of the outbreaks occur infecting mostly people (including children) who already got vaccinated against the disease.

Not that many, no.

[Chernoslavia]

It is. People aren't obligated to get vaccinated.

Yet.

lol oh really? And what are you and the government going to do if people refuse?

[Indig0]

If public health were really the priority, they would be making these mandatory:
No smoking for anyone
No drinking alcohol
All mothers must breastfeed their babies
Everyone must stay home from school/work when sick with a cold. That means 3 weeks, since colds are contagious for that long.
Anyone with a cold or any other contagious illness must wear a face mask.
Overweight people need to receive counseling and forced dietary changes to get their weight to a healthy level.

But most unhealthy activities make someone money. So that’s why ceasing those activities are not encouraged. Vaccines are a big money maker. Smoking used to be considered safe. There was fraudulent science claiming it was.

[Kowani]

Yet.

lol oh really? And what are you and the government going to do if people refuse?

Fines, mandatory quarantines, prison time.
Personally, I also advocate taking away their kids, but that’s just me.

If public health were really the priority, they would be making these mandatory:
No smoking for anyone
No drinking alcohol
All mothers must breastfeed their babies
Everyone must stay home from school/work when sick with a cold. That means 3 weeks, since colds are contagious for that long.
Anyone with a cold or any other contagious illness must wear a face mask.
Overweight people need to receive counseling and forced dietary changes to get their weight to a healthy level.

But most unhealthy activities make someone money. So that’s why ceasing those activities are not encouraged. Vaccines are a big money maker. Smoking used to be considered safe. There was fraudulent science claiming it was.

You know, Big Pharma’d make more money if people weren’t vaccinated, right?

[Chernoslavia]

lol oh really? And what are you and the government going to do if people refuse?

Fines, mandatory quarantines, prison time.
Personally, I also advocate taking away their kids, but that’s just me.

If public health were really the priority, they would be making these mandatory:
No smoking for anyone
No drinking alcohol
All mothers must breastfeed their babies
Everyone must stay home from school/work when sick with a cold. That means 3 weeks, since colds are contagious for that long.
Anyone with a cold or any other contagious illness must wear a face mask.
Overweight people need to receive counseling and forced dietary changes to get their weight to a healthy level.

But most unhealthy activities make someone money. So that’s why ceasing those activities are not encouraged. Vaccines are a big money maker. Smoking used to be considered safe. There was fraudulent science claiming it was.

You know, Big Pharma’d make more money if people weren’t vaccinated, right?

And if people don't pay the fines, try to force their way out of the quarantine zones, and run from the law? Nevermind the resources and manpower you will need to enforce those quarantine areas and vaccinations, manpower that you will not have.

[Kowani]

Fines, mandatory quarantines, prison time.
Personally, I also advocate taking away their kids, but that’s just me.

You know, Big Pharma’d make more money if people weren’t vaccinated, right?

And if people don't pay the fines, try to force their way out of the quarantine, and run from the law? Nevermind the resources and manpower you will need to enforce those quarantine areas and vaccinations, manpower that you will not have.

The same way you deal with anyone else who runs from the law?

[Chernoslavia]

And if people don't pay the fines, try to force their way out of the quarantine, and run from the law? Nevermind the resources and manpower you will need to enforce those quarantine areas and vaccinations, manpower that you will not have.

The same way you deal with anyone else who runs from the law?

Your implying that it's going to just be a couple dozen people not complying.

[Kowani]

The same way you deal with anyone else who runs from the law?

Your implying that it's going to just be a couple dozen people not complying.

Government registry of quarantine evaders. Make it a felony to employ someone on the list.

[The Free Joy State]

People vaccinated against measles can spread measles. It’s a live virus, which means it’s capable of giving the person measles. So even if 100% of people were vaccinated, there would still be measles outbreaks caused by the vaccine.

Measles is not caused by the vaccine.

Measles is caused by being around infected people.

I'll just copy this here:

There is a theoretical risk that live attentuated vaccines like the MMR can be found in body fluids (known as shedding), but that does NOT mean they are capable of causing the disease in the person vaccinated, much less being passed on, or causing disease in anyone else.

Even the most severely immunocompromised individuals can be around recently vaccinated people with all vaccines, the ONLY exceptions being the live polio vaccine (not used in Australia), and a few very simple precautions are needed for the chicken pox or rotavirus vaccine, or the influenza nasal spray (also not available in Australia).

Any suggestions of otherwise is the worst kind of propaganda.

CA has one of the strictest vaccination laws. There are less unvaccinated people in CA than in other states which still allow philosophical and religious exemptions.

It is possible for a vaccinated person to catch measles, only three out of 100 do, and to a much less degree than the unvaccinated.

And religious exemptions should be outlawed. Parents should not be allowed to force their religion on their children.

Measles used to be considered as common and harmless as the common cold in the 50s. It’s not a big deal.

The bolded couldn't be more wrong.

Measles has serious effects, including febrile seizures, hepatitis, meningitis, encepalitis, optic neuritis (leading to vision loss), heart problems, nervous system problems and a fatal brain complication called subacute sclerosing panencephalitis. If a pregnant woman gets it, it could lead to miscarriage.

To compare it to the common cold is a dangerous underestimation.

[Chernoslavia]

Your implying that it's going to just be a couple dozen people not complying.

Government registry of quarantine evaders. Make it a felony to employ someone on the list.

Yeah, that's just mighty fantastic....so what's next? Sending them to Gitmo after getting vaxxed?? Make any further dissenters disappear? Do you want armed resistance?

[Chernoslavia]

People vaccinated against measles can spread measles. It’s a live virus, which means it’s capable of giving the person measles. So even if 100% of people were vaccinated, there would still be measles outbreaks caused by the vaccine.

Measles is not caused by the vaccine.

Measles is caused by being around infected people.

I'll just copy this here:

I don't think he means vaccines cause the infection.

[The Free Joy State]

Measles is not caused by the vaccine.

Measles is caused by being around infected people.

I'll just copy this here:

I don't think he means vaccines cause the infection.

He said:

People vaccinated against measles can spread measles. It’s a live virus, which means it’s capable of giving the person measles. So even if 100% of people were vaccinated, there would still be measles outbreaks caused by the vaccine.

Emphases mine.

A scary amount of anti-vaxxer propaganda claims that live vaccines spread infection.

EDIT: I won't link to their stuff, because I don't want to give them oxygen, but here's a list of common anti-vaxxer myths -- busted -- and it's on there.

[Chernoslavia]

I don't think he means vaccines cause the infection.

He said:

People vaccinated against measles can spread measles. It’s a live virus, which means it’s capable of giving the person measles. So even if 100% of people were vaccinated, there would still be measles outbreaks caused by the vaccine.

Emphases mine.

A scary amount of anti-vaxxer propaganda claims that live vaccines spread infection.

Oh. My mistake then.

[Kowani]

Government registry of quarantine evaders. Make it a felony to employ someone on the list.

Yeah, that's just mighty fantastic....so what's next? Sending them to Gitmo after getting vaxxed?? Make any further dissenters disappear? Do you want armed resistance?

Nah. Most antivaxxers are already vaccinated. The ones that aren’t are the children. Upon vaccination, they can reinsert themselves into society.

[Estanglia]

People vaccinated against measles can spread measles. It’s a live virus, which means it’s capable of giving the person measles. So even if 100% of people were vaccinated, there would still be measles outbreaks caused by the vaccine.
CA has one of the strictest vaccination laws. There are less unvaccinated people in CA than in other states which still allow philosophical and religious exemptions.
Measles used to be considered as common and harmless as the common cold in the 50s. It’s not a big deal.

I'm pretty sure that the viruses they use in vaccines are dead or otherwise incapable of infection, otherwise, we should be seeing a fuckton more outbreaks.

And attitudes in the past can be wrong, especially if they didn't fully understand it.

News Flash: The adult antivaxxers are already vaccinated. It's their idiocy in refusing to have their children vaccinated for a variety of inane beliefs that is resulting the Measles Comeback Tour.

News flash: adults who got vaccinated as kids are no longer immune to measles. Vaccine immunity wears off over time. Unlike real immunity, it doesn’t last a lifetime.
Most of the outbreaks occur infecting mostly people (including children) who already got vaccinated against the disease.

Source?

If public health were really the priority, they would be making these mandatory:
No smoking for anyone
No drinking alcohol
All mothers must breastfeed their babies
Everyone must stay home from school/work when sick with a cold. That means 3 weeks, since colds are contagious for that long.
Anyone with a cold or any other contagious illness must wear a face mask.
Overweight people need to receive counseling and forced dietary changes to get their weight to a healthy level.

But most unhealthy activities make someone money. So that’s why ceasing those activities are not encouraged. Vaccines are a big money maker. Smoking used to be considered safe. There was fraudulent science claiming it was.

Most of these things are either actually minor (e.g the cold) and would be a waste of money to be solved for the little benefit it provides, some of them (e.g drinking) mainly affect the one doing it (and when it doesn't we tend to punish with harsher sentences), and others (e.g smoking) have attempts to solve them outside of governmental action and/or have significantly worse violations of ones rights.

Vaccines are quite different from all the above (side note: drug companies would make significantly more money if there were no vaccines and everyone had to come to them for cures). Firstly, the things they combat aren't actually minor, despite your comparison to the cold. Secondly, the violation of rights is a lot more minor than, say, forcing someone into rehab or counselling. Thirdly, one can infect someone with a disease that could kill them. Obesity isn't infectious and the cold is often quite minor.

[Esternial]

People vaccinated against measles can spread measles. It’s a live virus, which means it’s capable of giving the person measles. So even if 100% of people were vaccinated, there would still be measles outbreaks caused by the vaccine.
CA has one of the strictest vaccination laws. There are less unvaccinated people in CA than in other states which still allow philosophical and religious exemptions.
Measles used to be considered as common and harmless as the common cold in the 50s. It’s not a big deal.

I'm pretty sure that the viruses they use in vaccines are dead or otherwise incapable of infection, otherwise, we should be seeing a fuckton more outbreaks.

And attitudes in the past can be wrong, especially if they didn't fully understand it.

It strongly depends on the vaccine. Some vaccines work well enough by just introducing synthetically-created proteins that are identical to the virus' external shell + something to trigger your immune system to tell it that it should respond that the strange proteins introduced to your body.

Other vaccines rely on introducing a live-attenuated virus (LAV). This is basically a virus that has been intentionally modified to reduce its virulence and infectivity yet still maintain enough potency to educate the immune system. These are still considered quite relevant - perhaps even superior - as this kind of vaccine mimics the virus a lot better (obviously), including tissue preference and all that jazz.

Naturally this is also why people with derailed immune systems can't get vaccinated. A vaccine requires an immune response. If people's immune system can't respond even a weakened version of the virus might be dangerous.

There are rare cases where vaccine-associated measles may occur, as was addressed above by The Free Joy State.

News flash: adults who got vaccinated as kids are no longer immune to measles. Vaccine immunity wears off over time. Unlike real immunity, it doesn’t last a lifetime.
Most of the outbreaks occur infecting mostly people (including children) who already got vaccinated against the disease.

Source?

I get the impression Indig0's mind has been made up and they don't care for nuance - just pressing their point.

Yes, there are cases where a vaccine's effectiveness wears off - this depends on several factors, however. The type of vaccine, first of all. The amount of doses you receive determines whether you develop and sustain protective immunity. Inter-individual variation also impact the success rate. Let's not forget people are more variable than they think - how you respond to the same dose of a vaccine may not be the same as how I respond to it. Proper follow-up to vaccination is required - this is something doctors should emphasize to parents and something parents should ensure.

A vaccine is eliminated from your body, so it all lies with your immune system. If something causes your immune system to "forget" it's adaptation, you should take measures to "re-educate" it.

Pretending this applies to all people is intellectually dishonest.

[Gormwood]

Under the No Shit Department...

Kentucky teen who sued over school ban for refusing chickenpox vaccination now has chickenpox

[Kowani]

Under the No Shit Department...

Kentucky teen who sued over school ban for refusing chickenpox vaccination now has chickenpox

Fucking genius.

[Valentine Z]

Under the No Shit Department...

Kentucky teen who sued over school ban for refusing chickenpox vaccination now has chickenpox

Fucking genius.

I don't want to laugh at someone getting a disease, so... damn, this is just multiple layers of irony and with Life itself not fucking around.

[Gormwood]

Fucking genius.

I don't want to laugh at someone getting a disease, so... damn, this is just multiple layers of irony and with Life itself not fucking around.

Someone who willingly made himself a plague carrier and sued his high school for the "right" to infect vulnerable classmates and other students.

[Gormwood]

The closest thing in real life to a Nurgle Cult.

Andrew Wakefield, others hold anti-vaccine rally amid raging measles outbreaks

[Dooom35796821595]

The closest thing in real life to a Nurgle Cult.

Andrew Wakefield, others hold anti-vaccine rally amid raging measles outbreaks

Sounds like a good target for a drone strike.