The Russian population is shrinking, how can you solve it?

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

Tax free sex toys, free Sildenafil.

Billboards advocating consensual sex.


Просто трахаться уже.

[Hurdergaryp]

Tax free sex toys, free Sildenafil.

Billboards advocating consensual sex.


Просто трахаться уже.

You should ask it more nicely, even though Russians are not used to authorities asking things nicely. But hey, it might be a refreshing change.

[Shofercia]

Why do I get the feeling that this thread was started so that the Putin fanboys could circlejerk expansionist fantasies.

Not sure, but I doubt that's why this thread was started.

Yes but this RussiaToday article says everything's fine. Why would you be skeptical about it?

RT article says that if you want to conduct surveys about Russia, you should probably conduct the survey in Russia, and that 400 Russian speakers in 4 cities outside of Russia, probably don't speak for all Russians living in Russia. Seems very common sense to me.

Russia's TFR has declined to around 1.6 as of 2018. Moreover, a certain recovery in TFR from the lows experienced in the 1990s and early 2000s was expected as Russia started pulling out of the serious economic and social shocks it experienced during those years (Russia's GDP declined by 40% in the 1990s). I do not think much of the increase in TFR was due to Putin's pro-natalist policies, but simply a return to more historic norms (as late as 1992 Russia's TFR was 1.55, not too different from 2018). Achieving 2.1 in TFR will be very hard for Russia.

Russia is surprisingly good at attracting immigrants however, much better than would be expected for a country at its income level.

When the demographic reforms were first started by the Putin Administration, quite a few posited that it would be very hard to go from 1.2 to 1.75. And yet, it happened. I'm not saying that achieving a 2.1 TFR is going to be easy, but it is doable, albeit it will not be an easy task.

Russia really mostly attracts those from neighboring countries with even lower income levels.
Russia does have high immigration from those places (it actively encourages ethnic Russians from those areas to “return”) but also has very high emigration to Israel, German and the US.

Also many of those places also have low birth rates, so how sustainable such a policy is is questionable, although certainly without it Russia would be much worse off.

Speaking of immigration and emigration: http://www.unz.com/wp-content/uploads/2 ... 7-2015.png

And here's emigration by country: http://www.unz.com/wp-content/uploads/2 ... 7-2015.png

What happened is that around 2011, the Russian Government implemented a different way to count emigration, and as a result, emigration to Ukraine, the Stans, and other CIS countries increased. Unless, of course, you believe that in 2012, a massive horde of Russians fled to the finer riches of Uzbekistan and Tajikistan. But, as is typical of Russia, when Russians Liberals see a chart they like, they tend to ignore the facts, and run with it. And the rest of us mock them and laugh at that.

I should note that as a result of this reform also impacted the immigration numbers, so while both, the immigration and emigration numbers are inflated, the net migration number isn't. If A is 25, and B is 5, then if C=A-B, C=20. If I inflate both A & B by 100, then C is still 20. Over the past decade, Russia's net migration averaged around 255,000 per year: https://www.unece.org/fileadmin/DAM/sta ... kh_ENG.pdf

[ErVaReAn rEpUbLiC]

Russia's TFR has declined to around 1.6 as of 2018. Moreover, a certain recovery in TFR from the lows experienced in the 1990s and early 2000s was expected as Russia started pulling out of the serious economic and social shocks it experienced during those years (Russia's GDP declined by 40% in the 1990s). I do not think much of the increase in TFR was due to Putin's pro-natalist policies, but simply a return to more historic norms (as late as 1992 Russia's TFR was 1.55, not too different from 2018). Achieving 2.1 in TFR will be very hard for Russia.

Russia is surprisingly good at attracting immigrants however, much better than would be expected for a country at its income level.

When the demographic reforms were first started by the Putin Administration, quite a few posited that it would be very hard to go from 1.2 to 1.75. And yet, it happened. I'm not saying that achieving a 2.1 TFR is going to be easy, but it is doable, albeit it will not be an easy task.

You misunderstand. What I'm trying to say is that the increase in TFR from 1.2 in the early 2000s would have happened regardless of the demographic reforms. This is because the TFR in Russia was significantly depressed by the economic and social shocks following the collapse of the USSR. As late as 1991 Russia's TFR was 1.73. Then it started its precipitous decline before bottoming out in the late 1990s, which is coincidentally when Russia's GDP per capita was at its nadir. As Russia started recovering from the devastating economic and social effects caused by the collapse, its TFR was bound to return closer to historic norms. The pro-natalist policies of the Putin administration might have helped a little, but there is no doubt that much of the recovery would have happened anyway. This also coincides with recovery in other social indicators such as suicides, homicides, and alcohol poisoning, all of which worsened significantly in the 1990's also as a result of the economic mess of that era, before recovering after the mid 2000s as things got better. The 1990s and early 2000s were truly nightmare years for Russia.

[Shofercia]

When the demographic reforms were first started by the Putin Administration, quite a few posited that it would be very hard to go from 1.2 to 1.75. And yet, it happened. I'm not saying that achieving a 2.1 TFR is going to be easy, but it is doable, albeit it will not be an easy task.

You misunderstand. What I'm trying to say is that the increase in TFR from 1.2 in the early 2000s would have happened regardless of the demographic reforms. This is because the TFR in Russia was significantly depressed by the economic and social shocks following the collapse of the USSR. As late as 1991 Russia's TFR was 1.73. Then it started its precipitous decline before bottoming out in the late 1990s, which is coincidentally when Russia's GDP per capita was at its nadir. As Russia started recovering from the devastating economic and social effects caused by the collapse, its TFR was bound to return closer to historic norms. The pro-natalist policies of the Putin administration might have helped a little, but there is no doubt that much of the recovery would have happened anyway. This also coincides with recovery in other social indicators such as suicides, homicides, and alcohol poisoning, all of which worsened significantly in the 1990's also as a result of the economic mess of that era, before recovering after the mid 2000s as things got better. The 1990s and early 2000s were truly nightmare years for Russia.

I agree with you that the 1990s were truly a nightmare, not sure about the early 2000s. However, my point is that Putin's demographic and economic reforms helped the economy, and the demography, recover. The investment in safer birth clinics, when combined with single mother financial support, certainly crushed the abortion rate, and that's just one example.

[Cupofchar]

Are you sure the population is shrinking? The population might just be a bit shy and using their natural defensive matryoshka manoeuvre to disguise their numbers?

[San Lumen]

Are you sure the population is shrinking? The population might just be a bit shy and using their natural defensive matryoshka manoeuvre to disguise their numbers?

What are you talking about?

[Shofercia]

Are you sure the population is shrinking? The population might just be a bit shy and using their natural defensive matryoshka manoeuvre to disguise their numbers?

What are you talking about?

You haven't heard of the Matryoshka Maneuver?

[San Lumen]

What are you talking about?

You haven't heard of the Matryoshka Maneuver?

I have not

[Pope Joan]

Did I see that Putin is proposing open borders with the Ukraine?

No visas.

That could help

[Shofercia]

Did I see that Putin is proposing open borders with the Ukraine?

No visas.

That could help

Nope, not that. Putin's proposing to give Russian Passports to anyone who speaks Russian, was born in the former USSR, and resides in Ukraine. Kids of parents who meet the criteria can also apply. But I doubt that Russia would be welcoming any Maidan supporters - you guys created that Ukraine, enjoy!

The bill's aimed at helping hard working farmers, doctors, professionals, factory workers, etc, find a job in Russia, so that they don't have to endure grotesque oligarchy, a demographic death spiral, and economic madness. This might help population growth, but keep in mind that Ukraine has a worse TFR than Russia, so it's unlikely to improve the TFR.

[Shofercia]

You haven't heard of the Matryoshka Maneuver?

I have not

A summary of the Matryoshka Maneuver: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z77JFw2D6f8

(Yes, I'm joking, and I think that Cupofchar was also joking)

[Zagrepcanin]

Russia could bring people from Africa and the Middle East to solve its demographic problem. One should not that Russias population is still homogenous. There is the soviet concept of Rossyan in Russia. Rossyan is everybody who is born in Russia regardless of race, religion and ethnicity. It is also opposed to the concept of an "ethnic Russian"

The population of Russia is hardlyhomogeneous, and there definetly isnt a widespread idea of Russian regardless of race to be found to the extent where there wouldn't be tensions about a massive amount of outsiders coming in.

The concept of "ethnic Russians" or "ethnic Orthodox Slavs" is very racist and hatefull. Do you agree with this? Even according to the russian consitution Russian nationality is based on civic nationalism. There is no mention of "ethnic Russians" (which is equivalent to white Americans) in the russian constitution.

[Bezkoshtovnya]

The population of Russia is hardlyhomogeneous, and there definetly isnt a widespread idea of Russian regardless of race to be found to the extent where there wouldn't be tensions about a massive amount of outsiders coming in.

The concept of "ethnic Russians" or "ethnic Orthodox Slavs" is very racist and hatefull. Do you agree with this? Even according to the russian consitution Russian nationality is based on civic nationalism. There is no mention of "ethnic Russians" (which is equivalent to white Americans) in the russian constitution.

I absolutely agree. That however doesn't change the fact that Russian ethnic nationalism based upon both race and pride in the Orthodox church is very much a thing and it has in fact been on the rise in recent years. Since the Invasion of Ukraine, the largest and most popular Party, United Russia has greatly increased its appeals and advocacy of Russian nationalism to garner support, and it has proven very effective. Speaking of, just look at the situation in Ukraine. The entire conflict is about Russian ethnic nationalism and pride in being ethnically Russian and not Ukrainian despite the very close similarities between the ethnic groups.

The fact it isn't in the constitution really has no relevance. In fact the "1997 law" states in no uncertain terms the "special contribution" of Orthodoxy to the country's history and to the establishment and development of its spirituality and culture. That's pretty blunt in saying that Orthodox Slav culture is considered elevated compared to the ethnic groups and cultures that are not Orthodox and thus are outside of the "special status" of those that developed under Orthodox Christianity. Russia hardly has a history or reputation of being tolerant of groups that are not in line with Orthodox Slavic culture.

To address your other post about how the Soviet Union championed diversity, that is a complete lie.The Soviet Nationality polices were incredibly brief, and the Soviets quickly reverted back to Russificaiton. The Soviets were especially hostile and brutal towards the Volga Tatars for their National Communism and other Islamic groups.

So...yeah this idealist picture you have of Russia being completely void of ethnic Russian nationalism both present and in the past is entirely untrue, and Russification of groups that are not ethnic Orthodox Russians still occurs today.

[Petrolheadia]

Did I see that Putin is proposing open borders with the Ukraine?

No visas.

That could help

They're all coming to Poland anyway.

Wait... what if we closed the border?

[Grand Britannia]

Like the rest of the west, Russians should consider banging more.

Maybe subsidizing the aftermath and alleviating the issue that cause people to not want to have children.

[Diopolis]

The Russians could pass a law that any children in their fosterage system will be adopted out to qualified couples in Russia without their having a say in it, in the order of least to most fertile. "Have children or you will be assigned some" might work wonders.

[Ifreann]

The Russians could pass a law that any children in their fosterage system will be adopted out to qualified couples in Russia without their having a say in it, in the order of least to most fertile. "Have children or you will be assigned some" might work wonders.

For the number of children fed to wild dogs.