NationStates

Vassenor wrote:

Kragholm Free States wrote:
Please, do me the kindness of highlighting the part of New Bremerton's post wherein he states his desire to see "the entire religion eliminated". Unless, of course, you're indulging in your usual pastime of deliberately and grossly misrepresenting peoples' words to fit your own agenda.

So what does "remove the doctrine of Islam" actually mean then?

Presumably anything from mass reeducation programs to mass expulsion to genocide. Basically ethnic cleansing which doesn't necessarily include genocide.

Kragholm Free States wrote:

Vassenor wrote:
Hence my point about educating people about how that interpretation of Islam is incorrect.

I wholeheartedly agree. In fact, I will gladly buy you a plane ticket to the Middle East - or Sri Lanka as well, it seems - so that you can go and teach the Muslims there that their interpretation of Islam is incorrect. I'm interested to see how well they receive your wise words.

So in a flash you've jumped from "we should do this" to "doing this is suicide".

Consistency pls.

Loben wrote:

Vassenor wrote:
Hence my point about educating people about how that interpretation of Islam is incorrect.

How do you educate a billion people?

The majority of Muslims do not condone attacks like this. When are people going to get that?

Vassenor wrote:

Kragholm Free States wrote:
I wholeheartedly agree. In fact, I will gladly buy you a plane ticket to the Middle East - or Sri Lanka as well, it seems - so that you can go and teach the Muslims there that their interpretation of Islam is incorrect. I'm interested to see how well they receive your wise words.

So in a flash you've jumped from "we should do this" to "doing this is suicide".

Consistency pls.

I'm merely pointing out that when dealing with a doctrine that has been followed to the letter for well over a millenium, and currently boasts somewhere in the region of 1.8 billion adherents, "educating people about how their interpretation of Islam is incorrect" is likely to be a futile effort. By all means try it first, but do not expect much success. I do not advocate war lightly, believe me, but if these attacks continue to occur with increasing regularity and increasing scale, we may eventually reach the point where it is the only realistic solution.

Kragholm Free States wrote:

Vassenor wrote:
So in a flash you've jumped from "we should do this" to "doing this is suicide".

Consistency pls.

I'm merely pointing out that when dealing with a doctrine that has been followed to the letter for well over a millenium, and currently boasts somewhere in the region of 1.8 billion adherents, "educating people about how their interpretation of Islam is incorrect" is likely to be a futile effort. I do not advocate war lightly, believe me, but if these attacks continue to occur with increasing regularity and increasing scale, it may eventually be the only realistic solution.

So if education is impossible, what does "remove the doctrine of Islam" mean then?

San Lumen wrote:

Loben wrote:How do you educate a billion people?

The majority of Muslims do not condone attacks like this. When are people going to get that?

Never?

Is everyone seriously going to talk about religion which has absolutely nothing to do with this thread? It is about a terrorist attack on churches and hotels in Sri Lanka

Guelder wrote:Is everyone seriously going to talk about religion which has absolutely nothing to do with this thread? It is about a terrorist attack on churches and hotels in Sri Lanka

People will take any opportunity they can get to virtue signal about how evil they think Muslims are.

Vassenor wrote:

Kragholm Free States wrote:I'm merely pointing out that when dealing with a doctrine that has been followed to the letter for well over a millenium, and currently boasts somewhere in the region of 1.8 billion adherents, "educating people about how their interpretation of Islam is incorrect" is likely to be a futile effort. I do not advocate war lightly, believe me, but if these attacks continue to occur with increasing regularity and increasing scale, it may eventually be the only realistic solution.

So if education is impossible, what does "remove the doctrine of Islam" mean then?

As I said before, remove the Islamic doctrines that promote the murder of unbelievers. Whether by education (which I have not called impossible, merely highly improbable in regards to its success) or by force.

Guelder wrote:Is everyone seriously going to talk about religion which has absolutely nothing to do with this thread? It is about a terrorist attack on churches and hotels in Sri Lanka

How does it have nothing to do with religion? It was an attack by Islamic terrorists that targeted numerous Christian churches on Easter Sunday.

Vassenor wrote:

New Bremerton wrote:What the ACTUAL FUCK. I cannot believe radical Islamists would carry out an attack on peaceful Christians in a non-Western country where both Christians and Muslims are a minority and most of the violence historically has been between the majority Sinhalese Buddhists and the minority LTTE Hindu Tamil Tiger separatists. What have Sri Lankan Christians ever done to earn the ire of Sri Lankan Muslims? Absolutely nothing as far as I can gather. In fact, it is the Buddhist majority that has persecuted Sri Lankan Muslims in recent years. This is a completely unprovoked attack by Muslims against Christians perpetrated in the name of Islam, if government sources are to be believed. I want to see some justice done.

As many posters have rightly pointed out, the doctrine of Islam is partly if not entirely to blame for these attacks. Remove the doctrine of Islam and you remove Islamist terrorism, which is directly inspired by (an intolerant interpretation of) Islam. It's that simple.

So rather than educating people about how that interpretation of Islam is incorrect, you want the entire religion eliminated.

Now that actually is genocide.

Islam is not a people. It is a set of ideas practiced by Muslims, who are actually a group of people who can be physically exterminated. It is not "genocide" to call for a set of ideas to be eliminated, in part or in whole, else calling for the elimination of fascism or communism is "genocide".

Needless to say, I do think that ALL religions in their entirety ought to be eliminated together with fascism and communism, without resorting to the physical persecution or wholesale annihilation of those who adhere to such ideologies. Islam just so happens to be the most urgent and pressing in 2019.

Thuzbekistan wrote:I cant believe the government was warned about the attack and were given names! Two weeks before! That is completely incompetent and their failure to act is what resulted in these attacks.

True, idk why this is a trend in govs here. If someone threatens you, do something about it!

Havarland wrote:Yup and as it turns out they were from the religion of p*ss... whoops, peace.

A Jain group or Jain people isn't/aren't the peime suspects here.

Havarland wrote:Meaning the fighting yesterday was completely pointless and proof that Muslims are a threat to Christianity and a dangerous ideology.

Lol ok.

Havarland wrote:

The Huskar Social Union wrote:What are you jabbering about?

Easter blasts carried out by local islamist group: Sri Lankan Officials
That they were Muslims as many people claimed before before bunch of Muslims showed up and got offended.

No one got offended.

Sanctum and Ultima wrote:The perpetrators could get a free ticket to Siberia!
Or, they could be shot in the balls!
~ From a Muslim btw

Yeah no, that's not the Shari'ah punishment. They should be either executed or have to pay diyah. Btw does this ayah pertain to terrorism as well?

Marxist Germany wrote:Let's be honest here, this was an act of genocide.

No it wasn't.

Marxist Germany wrote:

Guelder wrote:
I won't call it a genocide, which is a mass murder of a group of people by the army

That's what genocide is, it was on a smaller scale however.

Then it wasn't genocide. Genocide is the act of killing an ethnic group totally or partially ("partially" as in most"). This is was mass murder, not genocide.

Kragholm Free States wrote:

Vassenor wrote:
So what ethnic group was this a targeted state-sponsored attempt to destroy?

Unless you're suggesting that all the stuff about Islamist motives was a lie concocted by the government as a false flag.

The United Nations' definiton of genocide does not mention that it must be state-sponsored, and does not limit it to targeting ethnic groups, also including national or religious groups.

So, presumably, given that these attacks were primarily directed at churches on Easter Sunday, it was an attempt to destroy Christians. Now, I wouldn't necessarily agree that this was genocide, simply because genocides tend to be on a far larger scale than even this attack. But I certainly see where MG is coming from.

Don't invent arbitrarily narrow definitions of a term to exclude anything your favourite "oppressed minorities" do from it. It's intellectually dishonest and blatantly obvious.

Kragholm Free States wrote:Don't invent arbitrarily narrow definitions of a term to exclude anything your favourite "oppressed minorities" do from it.

Lolwhat? You yourself disagreed with Marxist state calling this a genocide. This terrorist attack literally is not a genocide. As for the UN:
[quote=https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml]In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

Killing members of the group;
Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.[/quote]

Guelder wrote:Is everyone seriously going to talk about religion which has absolutely nothing to do with this thread? It is about a terrorist attack on churches and hotels in Sri Lanka

I was gonna say this as well. Then again it was only a matter of time before the islamophobes started trickling in.

The topic about Al-Islam goes into the Islamic Discussion Thread, not here.

Anyways, any news on the attack?

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:-snip-

Oh don't you start moralising about the ebil islamophobes, you openly support rape and slavery.

San Lumen wrote:

Loben wrote:How do you educate a billion people?

The majority of Muslims do not condone attacks like this. When are people going to get that?

Uhhh... About 1300 years ago. A handful of people are a little slower but they are an insignificant minority. The problem is that a significant minority of Muslim do condone murder in their religions name. There is no way to reverse the psychological gymnastics those people have done without finding out specifically who they are or "casting a broad net" and working with the entire culture.

Unless you have a way....?

Kragholm Free States wrote:

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:-snip-

Oh don't you start moralising about the ebil islamophobes, you openly support rape and slavery.

Disagreeing with a religion is okay, but this is just plain discrimination

Kragholm Free States wrote:

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:-snip-

Oh don't you start moralising about the ebil islamophobes, you openly support rape and slavery.

The last time someone called him out on that, they got a temporary forum ban for their troubles, so I'd recommend dropping that point.

Guelder wrote:

Kragholm Free States wrote:
Oh don't you start moralising about the ebil islamophobes, you openly support rape and slavery.

Disagreeing with a religion is okay, but this is just plain discrimination

He really does tho.

Terrible tragedy. I hope the perpetrators are found, the wounded make a swift and full recovery and that those responsible get brought to justice.

USS Monitor wrote:El Amin isn't the topic of the thread. Thanks.

I'm pretty sure that the point of calling him out was to demonstrate that his views on what is "right" or "wrong" are suspect to the average person, and we were only talking about him insofar as it related to the current topic of discussion.
I'll definitely stop talking about him, but if there isn't even a full page of off-topic discussion and the topic arguably isn't even off-topic in the first place, then I don't think that the threadjacking rules apply.

Evil Dictators Happyland wrote:

USS Monitor wrote:El Amin isn't the topic of the thread. Thanks.

I'm pretty sure that the point of calling him out was to demonstrate that his views on what is "right" or "wrong" are suspect to the average person, and we were only talking about him insofar as it related to the current topic of discussion.
I'll definitely stop talking about him, but if there isn't even a full page of off-topic discussion and the topic arguably isn't even off-topic in the first place, then I don't think that the threadjacking rules apply.

Nobody got warned for threadjacking.

Unstoppable Empire of Doom wrote:Islam has its origins in conversion at knifepoint.

>tfw you purposefully ignore that it itself says 'no compulsion in religion'

This is horrible. My heart goes out to everyone affected by these attacks.

Astoriya wrote:

Unstoppable Empire of Doom wrote:Islam has its origins in conversion at knifepoint.

>tfw you purposefully ignore that it itself says 'no compulsion in religion'

Not to mention, he's ignoring several other Quranic verses and hadith that go contrary to this man's claim.

Unstoppable Empire of Doom wrote:OH so it is different because Muhammad said Allah told him to murder people in mecca. I understand. The Quran doesn't promote violence because mecca doesn't count. *Nod nod nod*.

/S

This may surprise you, but very people people were killed when Muhammad captured Mecca. In fact, he even forgave all of the Quraish for their treachery against Muhammad (honestly, who does that ever? Muhammad.)

If you're willing to learn about Islam, I'm willing to help out. But let's take it to IDT if we are to debate.