One Reich, Two Reich, Red Reich, Blue Reich

[Internationalist Bastard]

So I’ve been thinking about Germany a lot. Mostly my love of glorious House Hohenzollern and how they clearly were always perfect in all ways.
But to more the point of my thread, it’s something of a trend to associate Germany and Nazi Germany in particular, with an old bit of propaganda from the 20s. The Third Reich. Seeing the Holy Roman Empire as the First Reich, and the German Empire as the Second. The Idea being the mark of a Reich being a great, German empire.
This now brings me a point of consideration. Some people argue that there is now a Fourth Reich, a new German empire. The European Union. Wait wait hear me out.
It’s well known that Germany maintains a high degree of power within the EU. It’s economical might, high population, and stable government has seen to it being one of the main powers in the union. Too much power some say. People argue that the EU is just a modern hegemony of German power, a new, Fourth Reich spread to Europe by democracy and trade rather then guns or political marriages.
So NSG, the question I posit to you, is the EU by and large German run, does this qualify as a Reich?
Personally I’d say no as it seems a number of other countries hold similar power, and this hardly qualifies as an Empire, but I’m interested if others disagree

[LiberNovusAmericae]

I would also say no, as German culture and traditions aren't being promoted through the EU.

[Neanderthaland]

In that case wouldn't it be the Fifth Reich? What with the Hanseatic League?

[Loben]

The EU is the apparent logical conclusion to napoleons continental system.

It will end the same way.

[Internationalist Bastard]

In that case wouldn't it be the Fifth Reich? What with the Hanseatic League?

You get that weak shit outta here

[Internationalist Bastard]

The EU is the apparent logical conclusion to napoleons continental system.

It will end the same way.

With a series of military defeats?

[Loben]

The EU is the apparent logical conclusion to napoleons continental system.

It will end the same way.

With a series of military defeats?

And the down fall of boney, in the EUs case it’s one I welcome.

[Neanderthaland]

In that case wouldn't it be the Fifth Reich? What with the Hanseatic League?

You get that weak shit outta here

No weaker then the HRE. If economic and trade unions count then the Hanse is probably more influential in Northern Europe then some sad Habsburg.

[Internationalist Bastard]

You get that weak shit outta here

No weaker then the HRE. If economic and trade unions count then the Hanse is probably more influential in Northern Europe then some sad Habsburg.

The key difference here is brand recognition

[Idzequitch]

Nah. Within the EU, Germany is certainly influential but they aren't that powerful. And despite the influence they hold, they aren't "Germanizing" anything, nor do I think they intend to.

[Internationalist Bastard]

With a series of military defeats?

And the down fall of boney, in the EUs case it’s one I welcome.

So who’s Napoleon here?

[Saiwania]

The EU isn't an empire and is too liberal to be a proper Reich. France holds just as much influence as Germany does within the EU. The other members don't care about it as much, it is primarily just France and Germany holding it together in my view. Lose one or both of those countries, and that is the key to cause its dissolution.

[Neanderthaland]

No weaker then the HRE. If economic and trade unions count then the Hanse is probably more influential in Northern Europe then some sad Habsburg.

The key difference here is brand recognition

So then the Second Reich is out.

[Internationalist Bastard]

The key difference here is brand recognition

So then the Second Reich is out.

Hey in recent years they’ve gotten some pretty good ads running for them

[Kowani]

Nah. Germany definitely has more influence than say, Portugal. But a Reich? Now that’s a whole new scale. We really shouldn’t get our opinions from Polandball, people!

[Aclion]

Yeah, but the EU is the third reich. The Nazis didn't last long enough to count.

[Purpelia]

Nah. Germany definitely has more influence than say, Portugal. But a Reich? Now that’s a whole new scale. We really shouldn’t get our opinions from Polandball, people!

That's just because they ain't there yet. If you look at the stated goals of the EU project it's essentially to unify all of Europe into a single superstate which has been the dream of Germans since at least the time of Charlemagne. And it's very clear which nation is going to have the lead in any such undertaking due to both German economic power and influence and the fact that this same power and influence literally means that if they walk away the project dies so you can't defy or censor them.

[Estanglia]

If the EU unifies into one state, then maybe, as it would probably be dominated by Germany, and could have the possibility of Germany controlling the other countries more than now.

Right now, no. Whilst Germany has dominance, it's not Germanizing the other countries.

[Heloin]

First Reich, Roman Empire(debatable, European/Near East country's liked claiming to be the heirs of Rome)
Second Reich, Francia
Third Reich, Germany(Kingdom of)
Forth Reich, Holy Roman Empire
Fifth Reich, Germany(Imperial)
Sixth Reich, Germany(Nazi)
Seventh Reich, (tbd)

[Ethel mermania]

Been reading up on Schacht, I see


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hjalmar_Schacht

[Erythrean Thebes]

The reichs never existed before the modern era, when Hitler began to dream of where his Nazi Germany would fit into the ladder of German and European history.

First Reich, Roman Empire(debatable, European/Near East country's liked claiming to be the heirs of Rome)
Second Reich, Francia
Third Reich, Germany(Kingdom of)
Forth Reich, Holy Roman Empire
Fifth Reich, Germany(Imperial)
Sixth Reich, Germany(Nazi)
Seventh Reich, (tbd)

Blatantly Germanophile of you

[Purpelia]

If the EU unifies into one state, then maybe, as it would probably be dominated by Germany, and could have the possibility of Germany controlling the other countries more than now.

Right now, no. Whilst Germany has dominance, it's not Germanizing the other countries.

Neither was the HRE. Or the original German Empire. Empires are not about converting their subjects but exploiting them.

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

You could call the EU the Fourth Reich. Doing that, though, would require quite a bit of ignorance about the EU constitutional order. The way the parliament is given shape, the powers of the Council of the European Union, the make-up of the Commission, these all show that Germany has a lot less power than they would have had otherwise. The constitutional order is actively tilted in favour of smaller, less populous countries.

[Chan Island]

I think the real story here is that there is all this talk of Germany going all fourth Reich, implying that they are still Nazi or something, when in truth they are probably the least Nazi major country in Europe right now. And EU is existencially an anti far right institution, so to suggest it's far right is a bit silly.

The term is blatant slander in other words.

[Dresderstan]

I thought this was an IM thread for some reason, but I was very disappointed IB, very disappoint.

Oh and to answer the question I'd say a bit of yes and no.