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New Mexico militia's detaining migrants.

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Do you support militias detaining illegal immigrants at the border?

Yes, they are legally justified, and are doing the right thing.
96
32%
Yes, I'm unsure as to the legality, but it is necessary.
43
14%
Unsure or undecided.
17
6%
No, this is illegal.
41
14%
No, legality doesn't matter, it's immoral.
41
14%
No, this is illegal, and immoral.
65
21%
 
Total votes : 303

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Kowani
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Postby Kowani » Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:11 am

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
Kowani wrote:Well, no.
Unlawful detention, or something like that.

Are they preventing them from leaving completely or are they perfectly free to go back across the border?

If I had to guess, I’d say preventing them from leaving entirely. Otherwise, there’s no point.
But, I will also admit ahead of time that I couldn’t find a source for that.
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The South Falls
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Postby The South Falls » Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:12 am

Paddy O Fernature wrote:
Ifreann wrote:Haven't you been listening to the President? There's a crisis at the border, apparently. Huge crisis, worst ever.


No.

However, I did hear when Kevin K. McAleenan, the commissioner of U.S. Customs and Border Patrol Protection said that an "unprecedented crisis" was in the works all along the entirety of the southern border.

Vassenor wrote:You think people should be allowed to falsely claim to be government agents?


I fail to see anywhere in the linked article where he, or anyone, did what you are claiming here. Thought don't let pesky little facts get in the way of your well trodden and worn narrative Vass.

The South Falls wrote:I mean, the militia is newsworthy, it's a leader was arrested, no?


I view it as about as newsworthy as any other countless arrests made daily of previous felons in violation of that particular law. The only reason why the news is even pushing it is because it fits whatever agenda they wish to push today.

You could say that. Though once, again, it's leaderless at this point. It shouldn't be a top-news headline, but it should be somewhere.
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Greater vakolicci haven
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Postby Greater vakolicci haven » Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:12 am

Ifreann wrote:
Paddy O Fernature wrote:
No.

However, I did hear when Kevin K. McAleenan, the commissioner of U.S. Customs and Border Patrol Protection said that an "unprecedented crisis" was in the works all along the entirety of the southern border.

So you understand why criminal gangs operating on the border are newsworthy. They're going to exacerbate this unprecedented crisis.


Greater vakolicci haven wrote:Not everyone with a felony conviction is 'a danger to the public.'

This man clearly is.

As judged by you, or the stupid arbitrary law preventing people with felony convictions from owning guns?
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Purpelia
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Postby Purpelia » Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:13 am

To be honest as long as they don't cross the border into Mexico or do anything harmful to american citizens I don't see why what they are doing should be a crime in america. They are simply fighting against foreigners that cross their borders against the wishes of their people and government.
Last edited by Purpelia on Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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The above post contains hyperbole, metaphoric language, embellishment and exaggeration. It may also include badly translated figures of speech and misused idioms. Analyze accordingly.

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Kowani
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Postby Kowani » Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:13 am

The Two Jerseys wrote:
The South Falls wrote:They are doing it illegally tho.

The fact that they haven't been arrested for it says differently.

…We’re in a thread about an arrest right now.
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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:14 am

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
Kowani wrote:Well, no.
Unlawful detention, or something like that.

Are they preventing them from leaving completely or are they perfectly free to go back across the border?

Armed men telling you to stay where you are doesn't give any reasonable person the impression that they can walk away in any direction.
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Paddy O Fernature
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Postby Paddy O Fernature » Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:15 am

Kowani wrote:
The Two Jerseys wrote:The fact that they haven't been arrested for it says differently.

…We’re in a thread about an arrest right now.


An arrest 100% not even related for being IN the militia.

The South Falls wrote:
Paddy O Fernature wrote:
No.

However, I did hear when Kevin K. McAleenan, the commissioner of U.S. Customs and Border Patrol Protection said that an "unprecedented crisis" was in the works all along the entirety of the southern border.



I fail to see anywhere in the linked article where he, or anyone, did what you are claiming here. Thought don't let pesky little facts get in the way of your well trodden and worn narrative Vass.



I view it as about as newsworthy as any other countless arrests made daily of previous felons in violation of that particular law. The only reason why the news is even pushing it is because it fits whatever agenda they wish to push today.

You could say that. Though once, again, it's leaderless at this point. It shouldn't be a top-news headline, but it should be somewhere.


I'd say back page. Somewhere between the want adds and obituaries.
Last edited by Paddy O Fernature on Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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The South Falls
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Postby The South Falls » Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:15 am

The Two Jerseys wrote:
The South Falls wrote:They are doing it illegally tho.

The fact that they haven't been arrested for it says differently.

What statute backs them up?
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Saiwania
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Postby Saiwania » Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:16 am

This flow of people from South and Central America to up north, is far worse than the Ho Chi Minh trail in my mind. If this goes uninterrupted for too long, the nation is going to collapse from the inside out.
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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:17 am

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
Ifreann wrote:So you understand why criminal gangs operating on the border are newsworthy. They're going to exacerbate this unprecedented crisis.



This man clearly is.

As judged by you, or the stupid arbitrary law preventing people with felony convictions from owning guns?

He's going around with a gun, threatening people and detaining them.
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Kowani
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:18 am

Paddy O Fernature wrote:
Kowani wrote:…We’re in a thread about an arrest right now.


An arrest 100% not even related for being IN the militia.

I’m calling this an Al Capone situation.
American History and Historiography; Political and Labour History, Urbanism, Political Parties, Congressional Procedure, Elections.

Servant of The Democracy since 1896.


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Effortposts can be found here!

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Greater vakolicci haven
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Postby Greater vakolicci haven » Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:21 am

Ifreann wrote:
Greater vakolicci haven wrote:As judged by you, or the stupid arbitrary law preventing people with felony convictions from owning guns?

He's going around with a gun, threatening people and detaining them.

And detaining people isn't what he's been arrested for now is it?
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“I predict future happiness for Americans, if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.” - Thomas Jefferson
“Silent acquiescence in the face of tyranny is no better than outright agreement." - C.J. Redwine
“The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles." - Jeff Cooper

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The South Falls
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Postby The South Falls » Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:23 am

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
Ifreann wrote:He's going around with a gun, threatening people and detaining them.

And detaining people isn't what he's been arrested for now is it?

It may be soon.
This is an MT nation that reflects some of my beliefs, trade deals and debate always welcome! Call me TeaSF. A level 8, according to This Index.


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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:24 am

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
Ifreann wrote:He's going around with a gun, threatening people and detaining them.

And detaining people isn't what he's been arrested for now is it?

Whether he was arrested for that or for not paying traffic tickets, it clearly shows that he's dangerous.
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beating the devil
we never run from the devil
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Greater vakolicci haven
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Postby Greater vakolicci haven » Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:24 am

The South Falls wrote:
Greater vakolicci haven wrote:And detaining people isn't what he's been arrested for now is it?

It may be soon.

But on the evidence provided, it isn't yet.
Join the rejected realms and never fear rejection again
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“I predict future happiness for Americans, if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.” - Thomas Jefferson
“Silent acquiescence in the face of tyranny is no better than outright agreement." - C.J. Redwine
“The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles." - Jeff Cooper

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The South Falls
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Postby The South Falls » Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:24 am

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
The South Falls wrote:It may be soon.

But on the evidence provided, it isn't yet.

Correct. They may have netted him on an easier charge while they work out the legality and chance of successful prosecution.
This is an MT nation that reflects some of my beliefs, trade deals and debate always welcome! Call me TeaSF. A level 8, according to This Index.


Political Compass Results:

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Greater vakolicci haven
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Postby Greater vakolicci haven » Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:25 am

Ifreann wrote:
Greater vakolicci haven wrote:And detaining people isn't what he's been arrested for now is it?

Whether he was arrested for that or for not paying traffic tickets, it clearly shows that he's dangerous.

No it doesn't. Has he hurt anyone in his detention of these people? The government seems to be turning a blind eye to that particular crime.
Join the rejected realms and never fear rejection again
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“I predict future happiness for Americans, if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.” - Thomas Jefferson
“Silent acquiescence in the face of tyranny is no better than outright agreement." - C.J. Redwine
“The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles." - Jeff Cooper

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Christian Confederation
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Postby Christian Confederation » Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:27 am

Purpelia wrote:To be honest as long as they don't cross the border into Mexico or do anything harmful to american citizens I don't see why what they are doing should be a crime in america. They are simply fighting against foreigners that cross their borders against the wishes of their people and government.

Basically
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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:30 am

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
Ifreann wrote:Whether he was arrested for that or for not paying traffic tickets, it clearly shows that he's dangerous.

No it doesn't. Has he hurt anyone in his detention of these people? The government seems to be turning a blind eye to that particular crime.

That he is detaining people is itself a form of harm, and whether he has hurt anyone yet, he isn't carry a gun for decoration. What do you think happens when he tries to detain someone and they assert their right to self defence? He politely lets them go? I doubt that.
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Greater vakolicci haven
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Postby Greater vakolicci haven » Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:32 am

Ifreann wrote:
Greater vakolicci haven wrote:No it doesn't. Has he hurt anyone in his detention of these people? The government seems to be turning a blind eye to that particular crime.

That he is detaining people is itself a form of harm, and whether he has hurt anyone yet, he isn't carry a gun for decoration. What do you think happens when he tries to detain someone and they assert their right to self defence? He politely lets them go? I doubt that.

Got any source to suggest he's shot anybody?
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“I predict future happiness for Americans, if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.” - Thomas Jefferson
“Silent acquiescence in the face of tyranny is no better than outright agreement." - C.J. Redwine
“The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles." - Jeff Cooper

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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:33 am

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
Ifreann wrote:That he is detaining people is itself a form of harm, and whether he has hurt anyone yet, he isn't carry a gun for decoration. What do you think happens when he tries to detain someone and they assert their right to self defence? He politely lets them go? I doubt that.

Got any source to suggest he's shot anybody?

Why do you think he has a gun?
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beating the devil
we never run from the devil
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Scomagia
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Postby Scomagia » Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:35 am

Again, in principle there's nothing wrong with maintaining vigilance along the border and reporting illegal immigrants you see crossing to BP. Hell, it's fine to be armed when you do it. The problem arises when you confront people. Observe and report should be the gameplan, leave actual confrontation to BP.
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Loben
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Postby Loben » Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:36 am

Purpelia wrote:To be honest as long as they don't cross the border into Mexico or do anything harmful to american citizens I don't see why what they are doing should be a crime in america. They are simply fighting against foreigners that cross their borders against the wishes of their people and government.

The only problem is that people want them here....

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Loben
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Postby Loben » Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:37 am

Ifreann wrote:
Greater vakolicci haven wrote:Got any source to suggest he's shot anybody?

Why do you think he has a gun?

Because people own guns for the express purpose of shooting people.

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Greater vakolicci haven
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Postby Greater vakolicci haven » Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:37 am

Ifreann wrote:
Greater vakolicci haven wrote:Got any source to suggest he's shot anybody?

Why do you think he has a gun?

He has a right to carry on, or should have if it wasn't for the ridiculous ban on people with felony convictions owning weapons.
Join the rejected realms and never fear rejection again
NSG virtual happy hour this Saturday: join us on zoom, what could possibly go wrong?
“I predict future happiness for Americans, if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.” - Thomas Jefferson
“Silent acquiescence in the face of tyranny is no better than outright agreement." - C.J. Redwine
“The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles." - Jeff Cooper

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