Conservative Speaker Attacked at UMKC

[Telconi]

Indeed, your point?

Oh, I’m just rejecting the idea that the left automatically destroys everything it touches.

So the left is cool because a distinctly different group did a good thing? I don't follow.

[Liriena]

Dismissal (Of someone's identity and self, in this case, the trans community) begets dehumanization and restricton of rights which in turn begets violence as it bypasses humans's natural aversion towards murder. Nobody here said dismissal directly leads to violence, and you don't have to shout "KILL THE DAMN TR*NNIES" to normalize aversion towards em.

Must have missed the part where "Kill the damn tr*nnies" came out of his mouth. Shit man, how do you even pronounce "tr*nnies?"

How did you manage to read their post and respond with something that addresses exactly the opposite of what they said? That's almost impressively stupid.

[Liriena]

Nuance is for cucks. Politics should be approached in terms as simplistic, shallow, incurious and lacking in context as humanly possible. [nods]

Throwing glitterbombs at your opponents doesn’t contribute much in the ways of nuanced discussion though.

Neither do memes, but here we are.

[Liriena]

Reminder that liberals are responsible for the existence of the Bill of Rights in the first place.

Would be called, racists, misogynists by today’s left.

And we'd probably be technically correct. Nobody can escape from their own culture.

[Scomagia]

Dismissal is violence!

Dismissal (Of someone's identity and self, in this case, the trans community) begets dehumanization and restricton of rights which in turn begets violence as it bypasses humans's natural aversion towards murder. Nobody here said dismissal directly leads to violence, and you don't have to shout "KILL THE DAMN TR*NNIES" to normalize aversion towards em.

So basically saying things you don't like leads to violence because you say it does.

*Yawn*

[Ors Might]

Throwing glitterbombs at your opponents doesn’t contribute much in the ways of nuanced discussion though.

Neither do memes, but here we are.

Yeah but we tried involving memes in politics and that didn’t work out too well..

[Czechoslovakia and Zakarpattia]

What, was he allergic to liquid bath-bombs or something?

We have an epidemic of allergy to lavender across the U.S. apparently, with conservatives in particular being disproportionately infected with it. Medicare for All and Contrapoints will help em in no time.

[Liriena]

Oh, I’m just rejecting the idea that the left automatically destroys everything it touches.

So the left is cool because a distinctly different group did a good thing? I don't follow.

Liberals were the left once. That history moved on and the liberalism of that time became a questionable status quo that more forward-thinking people sought to change doesn't mean that they themselves were not once forward-thinking reformers and revolutionaries standing up against the status quo.

[Loben]

Would be called, racists, misogynists by today’s left.

And we'd probably be technically correct. Nobody can escape from their own culture.

Yet they were brightest minds of their age...hmm.

[Telconi]

So the left is cool because a distinctly different group did a good thing? I don't follow.

Liberals were the left once. That history moved on and the liberalism of that time became a questionable status quo that more forward-thinking people sought to change doesn't mean that they themselves were not once forward-thinking reformers and revolutionaries standing up against the status quo.

They were, doesnt mean you are.

[Scomagia]

Yes, because words that don't advocate violence are more violent than violence.

Do you ever get tired of repeating silly things or is it fun for you?

Maybe try actually reading my words instead of constructing strawmen, eh?

I'm not saying words that don't advocate violence are, by them fucking selves, violent. I'm saying that words which advocate some form of hatred toward a group of people, which are being spread in a public manner toward a larger audience, NORMALIZE HATE, which in turn LEADS to an increase in violence. Context is fucking important, and so are the words being spoken.

But violence doesn't normalize violence, eh?

[Ors Might]

So the left is cool because a distinctly different group did a good thing? I don't follow.

Liberals were the left once. That history moved on and the liberalism of that time became a questionable status quo that more forward-thinking people sought to change doesn't mean that they themselves were not once forward-thinking reformers and revolutionaries standing up against the status quo.

I for one look forward to the day that I get my turn to look down upon the youth more radical than myself. Posadists get out.

[Scomagia]

Dismissal (Of someone's identity and self, in this case, the trans community) begets dehumanization and restricton of rights which in turn begets violence as it bypasses humans's natural aversion towards murder. Nobody here said dismissal directly leads to violence, and you don't have to shout "KILL THE DAMN TR*NNIES" to normalize aversion towards em.

Must have missed the part where "Kill the damn tr*nnies" came out of his mouth. Shit man, how do you even pronounce "tr*nnies?"

It was buried in there in coded language, don't you know? You need the super secret decoder ring to see it, though. But the actual violation of his body doesn't normalize further violations because reasons.

[Czechoslovakia and Zakarpattia]

Dismissal (Of someone's identity and self, in this case, the trans community) begets dehumanization and restricton of rights which in turn begets violence as it bypasses humans's natural aversion towards murder. Nobody here said dismissal directly leads to violence, and you don't have to shout "KILL THE DAMN TR*NNIES" to normalize aversion towards em.

So basically saying things you don't like leads to violence because you say it does.

*Yawn*

Strawman fallacy again. I never said that, Scomagia. I was merely stating the fact that normalizing denial of someone else's self (Which was the case in this scenario) and typical transphobic canards is the perfect recipe to decrease the level of social acceptance and support for them, which in turn increases the rate of violence committed by thugs or paranoid wingnuts against them, thus making any form of longterm solution to their plight unlikely and difficult. Hope that was clear as possible, so you won't twist my words into something I never said.

[Torrocca]

Maybe try actually reading my words instead of constructing strawmen, eh?

I'm not saying words that don't advocate violence are, by them fucking selves, violent. I'm saying that words which advocate some form of hatred toward a group of people, which are being spread in a public manner toward a larger audience, NORMALIZE HATE, which in turn LEADS to an increase in violence. Context is fucking important, and so are the words being spoken.

But violence doesn't normalize violence, eh?

Lavender oil doesn't normalize violence nearly as much as the very literal uptick in murder, assault, and battery.

[Liriena]

So basically saying things you don't like leads to violence because you say it does.

Words can lead to violence. This isn't an insane thing to say and in fact has been true throughout history. The link between those words and violence sometimes isn't direct and immediate, but it's there.

Trans people are one of the most actively denigrated groups, and a lot of the hateful rhetoric hurled at them (that they are "predators", "perverts" and "deceivers") is often cited in court by those who go on to inflict physical violence upon them. The "trans panic" defense, which is still allowed in most American states, relies on the idea that it is justified for a straight man to become violently upset if they were having any sort of romantic or sexual interaction with a person and suddenly discovered that that person was trans.

[Zizou]

But violence doesn't normalize violence, eh?

Lavender oil doesn't normalize violence nearly as much as the very literal uptick in murder, assault, and battery.

But it doesn't do anything effectively stop violence either. What would be effective is actually speaking out against what he is saying.

[Liriena]

Liberals were the left once. That history moved on and the liberalism of that time became a questionable status quo that more forward-thinking people sought to change doesn't mean that they themselves were not once forward-thinking reformers and revolutionaries standing up against the status quo.

I for one look forward to the day that I get my turn to look down upon the youth more radical than myself. Posadists get out.

Get off my lawn, damn dolphins with nuclear weapons!

[Telconi]

So basically saying things you don't like leads to violence because you say it does.

Words can lead to violence. This isn't an insane thing to say and in fact has been true throughout history. The link between those words and violence sometimes isn't direct and immediate, but it's there.

Trans people are one of the most actively denigrated groups, and a lot of the hateful rhetoric hurled at them (that they are "predators", "perverts" and "deceivers") is often cited in court by those who go on to inflict physical violence upon them. The "trans panic" defense, which is still allowed in most American states, relies on the idea that it is justified for a straight man to become violently upset if they were having any sort of romantic or sexual interaction with a person and suddenly discovered that that person was trans.

Yes but "words can lead to violence" is a universal truth. So are we to universally permit the assault of people saying things we find offenseive?

[Zizou]

Words can lead to violence. This isn't an insane thing to say and in fact has been true throughout history. The link between those words and violence sometimes isn't direct and immediate, but it's there.

Trans people are one of the most actively denigrated groups, and a lot of the hateful rhetoric hurled at them (that they are "predators", "perverts" and "deceivers") is often cited in court by those who go on to inflict physical violence upon them. The "trans panic" defense, which is still allowed in most American states, relies on the idea that it is justified for a straight man to become violently upset if they were having any sort of romantic or sexual interaction with a person and suddenly discovered that that person was trans.

Yes but "words can lead to violence" is a universal truth. So are we to universally permit the assault of people saying things we find offenseive?

Words can lead to violence. And the best way to combat words the incite violence are words that refute what the people advocating violence are saying.

[Czechoslovakia and Zakarpattia]

Maybe try actually reading my words instead of constructing strawmen, eh?

I'm not saying words that don't advocate violence are, by them fucking selves, violent. I'm saying that words which advocate some form of hatred toward a group of people, which are being spread in a public manner toward a larger audience, NORMALIZE HATE, which in turn LEADS to an increase in violence. Context is fucking important, and so are the words being spoken.

But violence doesn't normalize violence, eh?

Tu quoque. Doesn't change anything about the fact that speech, if used in a malevolent fashion to create canards and falsehoods designed to defame a particular minority group, does aid in reducing social acceptance for said minority if let unchallenged which in turn increases the rate of transphobic/homophobic/anti-semitic/anti-muslim/anti-black/anti-foreigner/anti-native attacks against said minority. It's not rocket science.

[Scomagia]

That's the entire point though. One doesn't have to directly shout "GAS AND KILL THE TRANNIES" to unwittingly galvanize hateful sentiment and canards against them. Have you ever heard of dogwhistles?

Oh, right, there are secret messages to his speech that only you know. Perhaps I need to play the record backwards to hear them? Or are they written on the back of tdd he Declaration of Independence?

Relax, he and his ilk will decode the messages for us and tell us what's acceptable to say or listen to and use violence to shut down the evil hateful, violence inspiring things that we can't recognize.

[Torrocca]

Lavender oil doesn't normalize violence nearly as much as the very literal uptick in murder, assault, and battery.

But it doesn't do anything effectively stop violence either. What would be effective is actually speaking out against what he is saying.

Both are effective. Direct action has destroyed whatever meaning regarding transphobia that Knowles was trying to convey in this case; all we have left is this discussion about lavender oil and how otherwise the normalization of hatred leads to violence, because of that.

[Telconi]

Yes but "words can lead to violence" is a universal truth. So are we to universally permit the assault of people saying things we find offenseive?

Words can lead to violence. And the best way to combat words the incite violence are words that refute what the people advocating violence are saying.

Sure, which is the basis of the concept of free speech.

[Zizou]

But violence doesn't normalize violence, eh?

Tu quoque. Doesn't change anything about the fact that speech, if used in a malevolent fashion to create canards and falsehoods designed to defame a particular minority group, does aid in reducing social acceptance for said minority if let unchallenged which in turn increases the rate of transphobic/homophobic/anti-semitic/anti-muslim/anti-black/anti-foreigner/anti-native attacks against said minority. It's not rocket science.

It can. And the best way to counter that is not by taking physical action, but using speech to refute these falsehoods.