TDT 4: What the $#@! is a "womxn", anyways?

[United Muscovite Nations]

Except TERF's aren't reactionary and aren't appropriating feminism. Really, the one part that's true is that they're transphobic.

No, it's very reactionary (as in literally a reaction to trans rights gaining mainstream acceptance) and it cloaks itself in feminist rhetoric to try and seem legitimate.

That's an oversimplification of the reactionary position.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

Not TERFs.

So what is the TERF opinion on transwomen using bathrooms?

"TERFs don't like transwomen using women's bathrooms," =/= "TERFs harass butch ciswomen for trying to use women's bathrooms."

[Hediacrana]

Good news: the governor of NJ has banned the trans/gay panic defenses for charges of criminal homicide.

[Auzkhia]

Good news: the governor of NJ has banned the trans/gay panic defenses for charges of criminal homicide.

NJ has been enacting a lot of good pro LGBTQ policies recently, it's nice, hopefully, it'll come to my state.

[Hanafuridake]

Good news: the governor of NJ has banned the trans/gay panic defenses for charges of criminal homicide.

It needs to be enacted in even more places. The fact that it's still legally acceptable in many places is an embarrassment.

[Novus America]

Good news: the governor of NJ has banned the trans/gay panic defenses for charges of criminal homicide.

Good, that “defense” has been grossly abused and is extremely harmful.

[Hediacrana]

NJ has been enacting a lot of good pro LGBTQ policies recently, it's nice, hopefully, it'll come to my state.

It needs to be enacted in even more places. The fact that it's still legally acceptable in many places is an embarrassment.

Good, that “defense” has been grossly abused and is extremely harmful.

I entirely agree with each of you; let's hope this spreads further.

[Nakena]

Good news: the governor of NJ has banned the trans/gay panic defenses for charges of criminal homicide.

This should be a thing on national level tbh.

[Novus America]

Good news: the governor of NJ has banned the trans/gay panic defenses for charges of criminal homicide.

This should be a thing on national level tbh.

I am not sure the federal government has a good way to do it.
Maybe it could argue it is illegal sex discrimination but states have a very large level of autonomy on how they run their courts, and there would have to be some constitutional provision making it a federal power to do.

[Nakena]

This should be a thing on national level tbh.

I am not sure the federal government has a good way to do it.
Maybe it could argue it is illegal sex discrimination but states have a very large level of autonomy on how they run their courts, and their would have to be some constitutional provision making it a federal power to do.

As long as more and more states adopt it, thats good too.

[Novus America]

I am not sure the federal government has a good way to do it.
Maybe it could argue it is illegal sex discrimination but states have a very large level of autonomy on how they run their courts, and their would have to be some constitutional provision making it a federal power to do.

As long as more and more states adopt it, thats good too.

That is probably the best way. Several states already have, unfortunately most do it only after it has gone horrifically wrong, California most notably.

Because it is not very commonly used, and governments often reactionary it is not an issue that usually gets high legislative priority unfortunately.

[Vassenor]

So what is the TERF opinion on transwomen using bathrooms?

"TERFs don't like transwomen using women's bathrooms," =/= "TERFs harass butch ciswomen for trying to use women's bathrooms."

And how do TERFs tell who is a transwoman using women's bathrooms?

[Novus America]

"TERFs don't like transwomen using women's bathrooms," =/= "TERFs harass butch ciswomen for trying to use women's bathrooms."

And how do TERFs tell who is a transwoman using women's bathrooms?

They have no way of actually reliably telling, but they do not care. It is ideological, not pragmatic or practical.

The want to do it by making it legally dependent on sex assigned at birth.
The fact there is no way to enforce this sensibly and it would cause more harm than good is irrelevant to the point it is what TERFs believe.
Rightfully arguing the TERF position is flawed does not change what they believe.

They believe the most butch ciswomen should use the women’s bathroom but the even the most feminine, passing, fully transitioned transwomen should not.

Again the position being wrong or unenforceable does not change the fact it is their position.

Your argument is a non sequitur. You say: A: the TERF position is unenforceable, impractical, harmful and ultimately self defeating B: therefore it cannot be the TERF position.

The problem is A being true does not mean B is true. People can and often do have ideological and policy views that are unenforceable, impractical, harmful and self defeating, even outright contradictory and hypocritical.
The problem is you assume the TERF position has to be logical when actually enforced. It is not.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

"TERFs don't like transwomen using women's bathrooms," =/= "TERFs harass butch ciswomen for trying to use women's bathrooms."

And how do TERFs tell who is a transwoman using women's bathrooms?

They guess. Probably going off build and facial features, not presentation. They're probably not about to block entry for a ciswoman with short hair.

[Vassenor]

And how do TERFs tell who is a transwoman using women's bathrooms?

They guess. Probably going off build and facial features, not presentation. They're probably not about to block entry for a ciswoman with short hair.

So what's getting people harassed for not being stereotypically feminine enough to be in the bathroom?

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

They guess. Probably going off build and facial features, not presentation. They're probably not about to block entry for a ciswoman with short hair.

So what's getting people harassed for not being stereotypically feminine enough to be in the bathroom?

Transphobes who probably aren't TERFs. Or are stupid TERFs. You seem to be latching onto this idea that the typical Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminist would screech at any short haired woman they saw entering the female restrooms. TERFs are bad, but they're not THAT bad.

[The New California Republic]

A transgender soldier in South Korea says she will sue the army after it dismissed her for violating regulations following her sex change.

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Hence Feminism-Appropriating Reactionary Transphobe.

Except TERF's aren't reactionary and aren't appropriating feminism. Really, the one part that's true is that they're transphobic.

TERF's are comparable to Nation of Islam and the IRA, in the way that they all stem from a noble movement for rights and equality but have become extremely hateful and somewhat dangerous.

[Page]

So what's getting people harassed for not being stereotypically feminine enough to be in the bathroom?

Transphobes who probably aren't TERFs. Or are stupid TERFs. You seem to be latching onto this idea that the typical Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminist would screech at any short haired woman they saw entering the female restrooms. TERFs are bad, but they're not THAT bad.

Some TERF's have allied with far-right Christian extremists against trans rights, that is quite bad, for so-called "feminists" to work with people who think a woman should be entirely subservient, anathema to what they claim to stand for, all so that they can keep trans people down.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

Transphobes who probably aren't TERFs. Or are stupid TERFs. You seem to be latching onto this idea that the typical Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminist would screech at any short haired woman they saw entering the female restrooms. TERFs are bad, but they're not THAT bad.

Some TERF's have allied with far-right Christian extremists against trans rights, that is quite bad, for so-called "feminists" to work with people who think a woman should be entirely subservient, anathema to what they claim to stand for, all so that they can keep trans people down.

Yeah, that is really weird. And it shows that if they'd do that, they place a higher priority on transphobia than they do on feminism, but it doesn't necessarily mean they're not feminist.

[Page]

Some TERF's have allied with far-right Christian extremists against trans rights, that is quite bad, for so-called "feminists" to work with people who think a woman should be entirely subservient, anathema to what they claim to stand for, all so that they can keep trans people down.

Yeah, that is really weird. And it shows that if they'd do that, they place a higher priority on transphobia than they do on feminism, but it doesn't necessarily mean they're not feminist.

Perhaps you're right and declaring them to not be feminists is a No True Scotsman. Just as ISIS does not speak for the vast majority of Muslims but it would be incorrect to say that they are not Muslims, or that Juche is repulsive to most leftists but it is still a left-wing ideology.

Instead, I will say that just as Muslims emphatically condemn ISIS and leftists call out the Kim family for their insanity and brutality, feminists should reject this faction entirely.

[New Paine]

They guess. Probably going off build and facial features, not presentation. They're probably not about to block entry for a ciswoman with short hair.

So what's getting people harassed for not being stereotypically feminine enough to be in the bathroom?

I would personally blame the religious and gender role essentialists for the harassment of more masculine presenting cisgender women being harassed in bathrooms. An actual TERF’s transphobia is different than a social conservative’s transphobia.

[Nakena]

Except TERF's aren't reactionary and aren't appropriating feminism. Really, the one part that's true is that they're transphobic.

TERF's are comparable to Nation of Islam and the IRA, in the way that they all stem from a noble movement for rights and equality but have become extremely hateful and somewhat dangerous.

They're, specifically in England and also in Canada, not as fringe as it seems they should be. They have a stronghold in Vancouver from where they maintain a hate site called "Feminist Current".

Amongst other things TERF are claiming that transgender woman are engineered and created by the patriarchy to penetrate female only spaces for nefarious purposes.

[Novus America]

Transphobes who probably aren't TERFs. Or are stupid TERFs. You seem to be latching onto this idea that the typical Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminist would screech at any short haired woman they saw entering the female restrooms. TERFs are bad, but they're not THAT bad.

Some TERF's have allied with far-right Christian extremists against trans rights, that is quite bad, for so-called "feminists" to work with people who think a woman should be entirely subservient, anathema to what they claim to stand for, all so that they can keep trans people down.

This is the enemy of the enemy is my friend logic.
Many people use it. Of course it is not always true. The enemy of your enemy might still be your enemy and will turn on you as soon as your common enemy is defeated but eh, many people are not great with foresight.

[Hanafuridake]

A transgender soldier in South Korea says she will sue the army after it dismissed her for violating regulations following her sex change.

Best of luck to her, fighting transphobia in East Asia can be a whole lot harder than in places such as the United States.