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Trans Discussion Thread 4: TRANSGENDER VAPORWAVE REVOLUTION

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Lesbian Space Crime? viewtopic.php?p=36173691#p36173691

YES!
15
10%
NO!
2
1%
Maybe?
7
4%
Get off my lawn!
8
5%
I don't get it...
10
6%
【TRANSBIAN SPACE CRIME INTENSIFIES】
60
38%
Where are the damn space cops?
4
3%
I am the damn space cops!
14
9%
This entire poll is HERESY and must be purged accordingly.
24
15%
[see results]
12
8%
 
Total votes : 156

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Grenartia
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Postby Grenartia » Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:00 pm

Mettaton-EX wrote:the poll should really have a mettaton option


I don't think you qualify as a fictional character. Also, polls can only have 10 options at most, and we're already at that limit.
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Necroghastia
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Postby Necroghastia » Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:17 pm

Grenartia wrote:
Mettaton-EX wrote:the poll should really have a mettaton option


I don't think you qualify as a fictional character. Also, polls can only have 10 options at most, and we're already at that limit.


Mettaton is a fictional character, though... :unsure:
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Postby Grenartia » Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:27 pm

Necroghastia wrote:
Grenartia wrote:
I don't think you qualify as a fictional character. Also, polls can only have 10 options at most, and we're already at that limit.


Mettaton is a fictional character, though... :unsure:


News to me.
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Luminesa
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Postby Luminesa » Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:06 pm

Necroghastia wrote:
Grenartia wrote:
I don't think you qualify as a fictional character. Also, polls can only have 10 options at most, and we're already at that limit.


Mettaton is a fictional character, though... :unsure:

TECHNICALLY angels don’t have a gender or a sex, since they’re spirits and beings of intellect. Even though we give them genders to make them characters we can understand. They wouldn’t qualify as trans, because they would not feel they are one when they appear as the other. They would know they have neither, and don’t exist as sexual beings.
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Necroghastia
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Postby Necroghastia » Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:43 pm

Luminesa wrote:
Necroghastia wrote:
Mettaton is a fictional character, though... :unsure:

TECHNICALLY angels don’t have a gender or a sex, since they’re spirits and beings of intellect. Even though we give them genders to make them characters we can understand. They wouldn’t qualify as trans, because they would not feel they are one when they appear as the other. They would know they have neither, and don’t exist as sexual beings.


Mettaton, the ghost-turned-robot from Undertale, not Metatron, the man-turned-Voice of God.
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Farnhamia
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Postby Farnhamia » Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:44 pm

Necroghastia wrote:
Luminesa wrote:TECHNICALLY angels don’t have a gender or a sex, since they’re spirits and beings of intellect. Even though we give them genders to make them characters we can understand. They wouldn’t qualify as trans, because they would not feel they are one when they appear as the other. They would know they have neither, and don’t exist as sexual beings.


Mettaton, the ghost-turned-robot from Undertale, not Metatron, the man-turned-Voice of God.

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Luminesa
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Postby Luminesa » Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:58 pm

Necroghastia wrote:
Luminesa wrote:TECHNICALLY angels don’t have a gender or a sex, since they’re spirits and beings of intellect. Even though we give them genders to make them characters we can understand. They wouldn’t qualify as trans, because they would not feel they are one when they appear as the other. They would know they have neither, and don’t exist as sexual beings.


Mettaton, the ghost-turned-robot from Undertale, not Metatron, the man-turned-Voice of God.

...OHHHHHHHHHHHH.

I clearly need more sleep. XD
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So apparently I am an ENFP!

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"I'm just a singer of simple songs, I'm not a real political man. I watch CNN, but I'm not sure I can tell you the difference in Iraq and Iran. But I know Jesus, and I talk to God, and I remember this from when I was young:
faith, hope and love are some good things He gave us...
and the greatest is love."
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Cekoviu
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Postby Cekoviu » Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:20 pm

Hediacrana wrote:
The New California Republic wrote:Disclaimer: Before there is a chorus of "but drag isn't the same as trans!"

Philjia wrote:I mean that and RuPaul's a bit of a transphobe.


While it is true drag and trans are different, and it is also true that RuPaul made transphobic comments, I'm glad TNCR shared this, for the reason that he shared it.

Also, I sometimes feel we insist on the distinction between drag and trans so much, and emphasize the difference between gender identity and expression to such a high degree (and both for good reasons, given the general public's ignorance and the mainstream tendency to conflate us with each other) that we end up minimizing the existing commonalities in experience between drag queens and transfeminine people (or drag kings and transmasculine people).

They may experience harassment for the way in which they express their gender. That is the sole commonality between us and drag queens; the similarities ought to be considered minimal because they are.
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Postby Cappuccina » Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:47 pm

Cekoviu wrote:
Hediacrana wrote:

While it is true drag and trans are different, and it is also true that RuPaul made transphobic comments, I'm glad TNCR shared this, for the reason that he shared it.

Also, I sometimes feel we insist on the distinction between drag and trans so much, and emphasize the difference between gender identity and expression to such a high degree (and both for good reasons, given the general public's ignorance and the mainstream tendency to conflate us with each other) that we end up minimizing the existing commonalities in experience between drag queens and transfeminine people (or drag kings and transmasculine people).

They may experience harassment for the way in which they express their gender. That is the sole commonality between us and drag queens; the similarities ought to be considered minimal because they are.

We all know people have a hard time actually thinking though.
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Auzkhia
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Postby Auzkhia » Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:12 pm

Grenartia wrote:Hey, I'm sorry I've been missing for *looks at calender* nearly 3 weeks. Real life has hit me like a fucking bus.

Welcome back, life hits people.


Some good news is that I'll be legally my real name in a few days.
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Postby Iciaros » Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:39 pm

Auzkhia wrote:
Grenartia wrote:Hey, I'm sorry I've been missing for *looks at calender* nearly 3 weeks. Real life has hit me like a fucking bus.

Welcome back, life hits people.


Some good news is that I'll be legally my real name in a few days.


Oh, that's awesome! Congrats! :hug:
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Postby Soleos » Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:46 pm

I'm disappointed we don't have a Kei Yuuki option :(
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Kowani
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Postby Kowani » Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:32 pm

Grenartia wrote:Hey, I'm sorry I've been missing for *looks at calender* nearly 3 weeks. Real life has hit me like a fucking bus.

Hit it back. :p
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Grenartia
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Postby Grenartia » Thu Aug 22, 2019 2:08 am

Auzkhia wrote:
Grenartia wrote:Hey, I'm sorry I've been missing for *looks at calender* nearly 3 weeks. Real life has hit me like a fucking bus.

Welcome back, life hits people.


Some good news is that I'll be legally my real name in a few days.


Woohoo!

Soleos wrote:I'm disappointed we don't have a Kei Yuuki option :(


I don't believe anyone suggested that.

Kowani wrote:
Grenartia wrote:Hey, I'm sorry I've been missing for *looks at calender* nearly 3 weeks. Real life has hit me like a fucking bus.

Hit it back. :p


In order for that to happen, there'd need to be a large union presence at my workplace.
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Postby Hediacrana » Thu Aug 22, 2019 7:38 am

Auzkhia wrote:
Grenartia wrote:Hey, I'm sorry I've been missing for *looks at calender* nearly 3 weeks. Real life has hit me like a fucking bus.

Welcome back, life hits people.


Some good news is that I'll be legally my real name in a few days.

How exciting - congrats! :hug:
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Nanatsu no Tsuki
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Postby Nanatsu no Tsuki » Thu Aug 22, 2019 3:29 pm

Auzkhia wrote:
Grenartia wrote:Hey, I'm sorry I've been missing for *looks at calender* nearly 3 weeks. Real life has hit me like a fucking bus.

Welcome back, life hits people.


Some good news is that I'll be legally my real name in a few days.


Congrats on that, Auz.
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Kowani
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Postby Kowani » Thu Aug 22, 2019 3:51 pm

Grenartia wrote:
Kowani wrote:Hit it back. :p


In order for that to happen, there'd need to be a large union presence at my workplace.

Real quick-Unions are a good way to face corporate discrimination.
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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Thu Aug 22, 2019 5:55 pm

Trans rights and disability, a video by Human Rights Defender Ellen Murray.

That's her actual job title. Human Rights Defender. She's basically a super hero.
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Nanatsu no Tsuki
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Postby Nanatsu no Tsuki » Thu Aug 22, 2019 8:53 pm

I have a question regarding a particular person. John Maclean. Are they transgender? I’m never certain.
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Auzkhia
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Postby Auzkhia » Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:56 pm

Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:I have a question regarding a particular person. John Maclean. Are they transgender? I’m never certain.

IIRC, he's a gender nonconforming cis guy.
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Nanatsu no Tsuki
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Postby Nanatsu no Tsuki » Thu Aug 22, 2019 10:00 pm

Auzkhia wrote:
Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:I have a question regarding a particular person. John Maclean. Are they transgender? I’m never certain.

IIRC, he's a gender nonconforming cis guy.


So presenting female for aesthetic choices while still being cisgender? Or am I misunderstanding?
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Auzkhia
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Postby Auzkhia » Thu Aug 22, 2019 10:07 pm

Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
Auzkhia wrote:IIRC, he's a gender nonconforming cis guy.


So presenting female for aesthetic choices while still being cisgender? Or am I misunderstanding?

Yeah, that's pretty much what gender non conformity is, having a presentation that is not typical or matching by choice to your identity.
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Postby First American Empire » Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:05 pm

Dumb Ideologies wrote:The two aren't entirely separate, since there some trans people who've come to understand themselves through drag.

However, at a macro level, there's a lot of tension between transgender and drag for quite good reason. With its emphasis on "play", "costume", and parodying the very idea of gender for the amusement of a primarily cis audience, drag is very oppositional to the permanent, serious and usually assimilationist goals of transgender people.

It has also historically weaved uncomfortably close to a minstrel act, mostly saved from this only by the fact that it was people of a lower status "punching up", so in some ways it becomes less acceptable the more gay rights advance.

Trying to make it woke and modern with all these historical social and political orientations bouncing around is why you see people involved coming out with dinosaur-tier transphobic trash one minute, and then the next minute try to sell it as respectful and pro-transgender.

Drag blunders about claiming to be all about being true to yourself and liberated while fundamentally parodying the very idea of identity, and it makes a lot of its downtrodden history while clumsily blundering into punching sideways at cis women and downwards at transwomen. It's loud, it's proud, it doesn't know what it is, and it hasn't made any cohesive effort to come to terms with its history and its contemporary implications. No wonder the queer theorists love it!


Drag is essentially cis men dressing up as women and acting out misogynistic and transphobic stereotypes for the entertainment of a predominantly male and cisgender audience. It's basically the gender equivalent of blackface.
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Nakena
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Postby Nakena » Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:37 pm

First American Empire wrote:
Dumb Ideologies wrote:The two aren't entirely separate, since there some trans people who've come to understand themselves through drag.

However, at a macro level, there's a lot of tension between transgender and drag for quite good reason. With its emphasis on "play", "costume", and parodying the very idea of gender for the amusement of a primarily cis audience, drag is very oppositional to the permanent, serious and usually assimilationist goals of transgender people.

It has also historically weaved uncomfortably close to a minstrel act, mostly saved from this only by the fact that it was people of a lower status "punching up", so in some ways it becomes less acceptable the more gay rights advance.

Trying to make it woke and modern with all these historical social and political orientations bouncing around is why you see people involved coming out with dinosaur-tier transphobic trash one minute, and then the next minute try to sell it as respectful and pro-transgender.

Drag blunders about claiming to be all about being true to yourself and liberated while fundamentally parodying the very idea of identity, and it makes a lot of its downtrodden history while clumsily blundering into punching sideways at cis women and downwards at transwomen. It's loud, it's proud, it doesn't know what it is, and it hasn't made any cohesive effort to come to terms with its history and its contemporary implications. No wonder the queer theorists love it!


Drag is essentially cis men dressing up as women and acting out misogynistic and transphobic stereotypes for the entertainment of a predominantly male and cisgender audience. It's basically the gender equivalent of blackface.


What is your opinion on Contrapoints transtrenders video in this context?
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Grenartia
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Postby Grenartia » Fri Aug 23, 2019 5:37 am

Kowani wrote:
Grenartia wrote:


In order for that to happen, there'd need to be a large union presence at my workplace.

Real quick-Unions are a good way to face corporate discrimination.


This is just typical corporate bullshit, not transphobic discrimination (they don't know I'm trans, that's how I'm sure).

Lets just say I got written up twice for the same incident, which was caused by one of those "I DEMAN TO SPEAK TO YOUR MANAGER THIS INSTANT!" types.
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Please use they/them/their when referencing me, as I do NOT appreciate the other pronouns.
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