TDT 4: What the $#@! is a "womxn", anyways?

[Cekoviu]

Mind, no scientific study exists that proves your existence.

Having to retreat to the "everything is a simulation/hologram" hypothesis doesn't really serve you well.

The same could be said for having to retreat to braying "ur doing it wrong" whenever you don't like the fact that someone's illustrating the issue with your worldview.

[Proctopeo]

Having to retreat to the "everything is a simulation/hologram" hypothesis doesn't really serve you well.

The same could be said for having to retreat to braying "ur doing it wrong" whenever you don't like the fact that someone's illustrating the issue with your worldview.

That's a very weak point.

[Cappuccina]

Could you tell me what that evidence is? Because as I recall without fail every single piece of evidence provided was either totally unrelated (IE shit about animals), contradictory (IE evidence that biological indicators for binary transgendder people exist), or equally true for vampires psychics or otherkin (a group, culture, or organization says they're legit with nothing to actually support that).



Transgender women and transgender men exist. I can support their existence with twin studies, the multiple examinations of the sexually dimorphic nucleus, and estrogen uptake of transgender men. This suggests that transgender men are distinct from cisgender women and transgender women are distinct from cisgender men. No such evidence supports the existence of nonbinary people.

Mind, no scientific study exists that proves your existence.

Wtf are you on?

[Proctopeo]

Mind, no scientific study exists that proves your existence.

Wtf are you on?

GCCS is just insecure about not actually existing and just being a tulpa. /s

[Cekoviu]

The same could be said for having to retreat to braying "ur doing it wrong" whenever you don't like the fact that someone's illustrating the issue with your worldview.

That's a very weak point.

The irony, holy shit.

[Proctopeo]

That's a very weak point.

The irony, holy shit.

Are you high? Maybe tone down the jazz cabbage before going online.

[Cekoviu]

The irony, holy shit.

Are you high? Maybe tone down the jazz cabbage before going online.

Okay, hon.

[Proctopeo]

Are you high? Maybe tone down the jazz cabbage before going online.

Okay, hon.

Condescension is so 2014.

[Cekoviu]

Okay, hon.

Condescension is so 2014.

, he proclaimed, having no idea of what horrific knowledge was to come - that he was himself in 2014.

[Proctopeo]

Condescension is so 2014.

, he proclaimed, having no idea of what horrific knowledge was to come - that he was himself in 2014.

No, I was skeleton.

[Cekoviu]

, he proclaimed, having no idea of what horrific knowledge was to come - that he was himself in 2014.

No, I was skeleton.

That doesn't come until later, after the Harry Potter crossover.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

, he proclaimed, having no idea of what horrific knowledge was to come - that he was himself in 2014.

No, I was skeleton.

*megoloBania intensifies*

[Grenartia]

Hey, yall, can we stop with the fucking threadjack? Just block Proct and Des. They're not contributing anything to the thread.

Now, actually on topic, how do people feel about a poll about your fav trans/nonbinary movie/book/game characters for next month's poll? Hedia suggested it, but nobody gave me their thoughts on poll options. And does anyone have a suggestion for the next title?

[Proctopeo]

Hey, yall, can we stop with the fucking threadjack? Just block Proct and Des. They're not contributing anything to the thread.

That's rude.
Apologize.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

Hey, yall, can we stop with the fucking threadjack? Just block Proct and Des. They're not contributing anything to the thread.

Now, actually on topic, how do people feel about a poll about your fav trans/nonbinary movie/book/game characters for next month's poll? Hedia suggested it, but nobody gave me their thoughts on poll options. And does anyone have a suggestion for the next title?

Proct and Des actually contribute a fair amount to discussions. Just because they're not fully on board with all of the trans stuff doesn't mean they have nothing to contribute.

That does seem like I good idea, but I don't know any trans comics or characters. Can someone recommend some good ones to me?

[The Empire of Pretantia]

Hey, yall, can we stop with the fucking threadjack? Just block Proct and Des. They're not contributing anything to the thread.

Now, actually on topic, how do people feel about a poll about your fav trans/nonbinary movie/book/game characters for next month's poll? Hedia suggested it, but nobody gave me their thoughts on poll options. And does anyone have a suggestion for the next title?

FL4K from Borderlands 3, literally goes by "they."

[Proctopeo]

Hey, yall, can we stop with the fucking threadjack? Just block Proct and Des. They're not contributing anything to the thread.

Now, actually on topic, how do people feel about a poll about your fav trans/nonbinary movie/book/game characters for next month's poll? Hedia suggested it, but nobody gave me their thoughts on poll options. And does anyone have a suggestion for the next title?

Proct and Des actually contribute a fair amount to discussions. Just because they're not fully on board with all of the trans stuff doesn't mean they have nothing to contribute.

Thank you, Xeno. Though saying I'm "not fully on board with all of the trans stuff" is misleading. I reject certain beliefs that aren't inherent to transness (really, very few are) and aren't even a majority opinion in the overall trans community - just some sub-communities.

[Auzkhia]

Hey, yall, can we stop with the fucking threadjack? Just block Proct and Des. They're not contributing anything to the thread.

Now, actually on topic, how do people feel about a poll about your fav trans/nonbinary movie/book/game characters for next month's poll? Hedia suggested it, but nobody gave me their thoughts on poll options. And does anyone have a suggestion for the next title?

Put Link into it, you've gotta.

---

Another point of discussion.

I just realized that I and probably most other trans people have had some experience of being treated like both a man and a woman over the course of their life. I wasn't my AGAB, obviously, but I lived with it for most of my life until I realized my real gender. It's also really funny to me as a nonbinary person, navigating through a binary world.

Of course, one could see how trans people essentially see the different sides of misogyny and sexism. That's one part of my point, but also entering different gendered spaces, and having knowledge of both.

[Cekoviu]

Hey, yall, can we stop with the fucking threadjack? Just block Proct and Des. They're not contributing anything to the thread.

Now, actually on topic, how do people feel about a poll about your fav trans/nonbinary movie/book/game characters for next month's poll? Hedia suggested it, but nobody gave me their thoughts on poll options. And does anyone have a suggestion for the next title?

Proct and Des actually contribute a fair amount to discussions. Just because they're not fully on board with all of the trans stuff doesn't mean they have nothing to contribute.

That does seem like I good idea, but I don't know any trans comics or characters. Can someone recommend some good ones to me?

I don't know about comics specifically. There aren't terribly many accurate, non-tokenist representations of trans people in literature that isn't specifically intended to address the issue of trans people (see things like Gracefully Grayson). There aren't a lot of trans people in video games that aren't one-off NPCs either, with a couple notable exceptions - Vivian (PM:TTYD[J], playable), Birdo (SMB2, playable in some later games and a notable NPC in the original), Poison (Final Fight/Street Fighter series, playable/notable NPC). Movies and TV, however, have a lot, although they're unfortunately overrepresentative of trans women relative to trans men, much like games.

[Cekoviu]

Hey, yall, can we stop with the fucking threadjack? Just block Proct and Des. They're not contributing anything to the thread.

Now, actually on topic, how do people feel about a poll about your fav trans/nonbinary movie/book/game characters for next month's poll? Hedia suggested it, but nobody gave me their thoughts on poll options. And does anyone have a suggestion for the next title?

Put Link into it, you've gotta.

Link isn't trans, though.

[Necroghastia]

Hey, yall, can we stop with the fucking threadjack? Just block Proct and Des. They're not contributing anything to the thread.

Now, actually on topic, how do people feel about a poll about your fav trans/nonbinary movie/book/game characters for next month's poll? Hedia suggested it, but nobody gave me their thoughts on poll options. And does anyone have a suggestion for the next title?

Frisk from Undertale, Alluka from Hunter x Hunter, Lily from Zombie Land Saga... kinda wanna say Taliyah from League of Legends but her being trans is in kind of a grey area canon-wise. I think Sailor Uranus has also been described as nonbinary at some point.

[Hediacrana]

Hey, yall, can we stop with the fucking threadjack? Just block Proct and Des. They're not contributing anything to the thread.

Now, actually on topic, how do people feel about a poll about your fav trans/nonbinary movie/book/game characters for next month's poll? Hedia suggested it, but nobody gave me their thoughts on poll options. And does anyone have a suggestion for the next title?

That does seem like I good idea, but I don't know any trans comics or characters. Can someone recommend some good ones to me?

Trans/nonbinary comics that I've loved (my wife is a graphic novel fanatic and our house is lined with them):

Maia Koiabe's GenderQueer: A Memoir
Jen Wang's The Prince and the Dressmaker
Erin Nations' Gumballs

Less good, still enjoyable: Sabrina Symington's First Year Out: A Transition Story

I realize these are not very well-known titles, but do give them a try! The Prince and the Dressmaker is fiction/fantasy, the others are autobiographical.

[Des-Bal]

Proct and Des actually contribute a fair amount to discussions. Just because they're not fully on board with all of the trans stuff doesn't mean they have nothing to contribute.

That does seem like I good idea, but I don't know any trans comics or characters. Can someone recommend some good ones to me?

I'm on board with with treating everyone decently regardless of who they are and believing anything supported by evidence. As upsetting as I'm sure it is for some people to acknowledge or be forced to avoid acknowledging that the only tentpole supporting their beliefs is what they would like to be true quite a bit had s come out of this discussion.

Theres been a great deal of discussion about the actual biological implications of being transgender, fringe theories on anatomical maps and how those maps might be variable, and a great deal of evidence that gender has biological roots and that those roots are not bound to sex.

Now if suggesting that being transgender is slightly more substantial than being goth means that an anime Twitter avatar and a list of pronouns isn't enough to get into the club then that's a crying shame. Those poor victims of gatekeeping should find tulpas, systems, or kintypes nore accessible. Theres no gatekeeping there because those things aren't real and dont have real world implications and aren't tied to people seeking real recognition.

As much as it crushes me to not be fully on board I have concerns about young transgender people being told that gender is a fun pretend game and dysphoria is just what happens when you dont enjoy it. Or that gender is a social construct but also an immutable aspect of who you are because that is 100% either going to fuck up the way you look at gender or the way you look at social constructs.

If anyone at all would like to ignore me because they dont want to hear that feel free, antivaxxers, aids deniers, and homeopaths have proven it's a valid strategy.

[Nakena]

Hey, yall, can we stop with the fucking threadjack? Just block Proct and Des. They're not contributing anything to the thread.

Now, actually on topic, how do people feel about a poll about your fav trans/nonbinary movie/book/game characters for next month's poll? Hedia suggested it, but nobody gave me their thoughts on poll options. And does anyone have a suggestion for the next title?

Poison from Street Fighter is obviously the best.

Also Bridget from Gulity Gear if that counts.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

Proct and Des actually contribute a fair amount to discussions. Just because they're not fully on board with all of the trans stuff doesn't mean they have nothing to contribute.

That does seem like I good idea, but I don't know any trans comics or characters. Can someone recommend some good ones to me?

I'm on board with with treating everyone decently regardless of who they are and believing anything supported by evidence. As upsetting as I'm sure it is for some people to acknowledge or be forced to avoid acknowledging that the only tentpole supporting their beliefs is what they would like to be true quite a bit had s come out of this discussion.

Theres been a great deal of discussion about the actual biological implications of being transgender, fringe theories on anatomical maps and how those maps might be variable, and a great deal of evidence that gender has biological roots and that those roots are not bound to sex.

Now if suggesting that being transgender is slightly more substantial than being goth means that an anime Twitter avatar and a list of pronouns isn't enough to get into the club then that's a crying shame. Those poor victims of gatekeeping should find tulpas, systems, or kintypes nore accessible. Theres no gatekeeping there because those things aren't real and dont have real world implications and aren't tied to people seeking real recognition.

As much as it crushes me to not be fully on board I have concerns about young transgender people being told that gender is a fun pretend game and dysphoria is just what happens when you dont enjoy it. Or that gender is a social construct but also an immutable aspect of who you are because that is 100% either going to fuck up the way you look at gender or the way you look at social constructs.

If anyone at all would like to ignore me because they dont want to hear that feel free, antivaxxers, aids deniers, and homeopaths have proven it's a valid strategy.

Perhaps "not fully on board with all of the trans stuff" wasn't the right phrase.