NationStates

Posted: **Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:06 am**

Necroghastia wrote:
Saciu wrote:The word "to" is wrong? How about the words "life" and "points"?

Yes, actually, because no one would be destroying their life and "oppression points" aren't a thing.

A non-dysphoric person who medically transitions will suddenly experience immense body dysphoria. They may well be unable to return to their previous life wherein they were their birth sex. Read up about detransitioners. Their existence is undeniable, and I'm sure as hell that we'll see a slew of them in the near future.

There are people who want to be LGBT, non-white etc in order to feel oppressed and thereby fit in with the stereotypical "liberal university student". I know this because I used to be one of them. I used to think it would be really cool to be LGBT. Then I realised that I'm trans, and I wish nothing more than not to be. Sadly, I can't because that's not how gender dysphoria works. You can also research transtrenders, of which there are many.

Posted: **Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:08 am**

Saciu wrote:
Necroghastia wrote:
Yes, actually, because no one would be destroying their life and "oppression points" aren't a thing.

A non-dysphoric person who medically transitions will suddenly experience immense body dysphoria. They may well be unable to return to their previous life wherein they were their birth sex. Read up about detransitioners. Their existence is undeniable, and I'm sure as hell that we'll see a slew of them in the near future.

There are people who want to be LGBT, non-white etc in order to feel oppressed and thereby fit in with the stereotypical "liberal university student". I know this because I used to be one of them. I used to think it would be really cool to be LGBT. Then I realised that I'm trans, and I wish nothing more than not to be. Sadly, I can't because that's not how gender dysphoria works. You can also research transtrenders, of which there are many.

That sounds very frightening. Thats why I always say people should be cautious and mindful with their decisions.

Posted: **Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:16 am**

Saciu wrote:
Necroghastia wrote:
Yes, actually, because no one would be destroying their life and "oppression points" aren't a thing.

A non-dysphoric person who medically transitions will suddenly experience immense body dysphoria. They may well be unable to return to their previous life wherein they were their birth sex. Read up about detransitioners. Their existence is undeniable, and I'm sure as hell that we'll see a slew of them in the near future.

There are people who want to be LGBT, non-white etc in order to feel oppressed and thereby fit in with the stereotypical "liberal university student". I know this because I used to be one of them. I used to think it would be really cool to be LGBT. Then I realised that I'm trans, and I wish nothing more than not to be. Sadly, I can't because that's not how gender dysphoria works. You can also research transtrenders, of which there are many.

Or they would experience gender euphoria, or remain experiencing nothing at all.

The plural of anecdote is not data. And that sounds like a you problem, tbh. I'm trans and proud of it. Yeah, dysphoria sucks, living in a place where it would be vastly easier to be a cishet person sucks, but... nothing I can do about that right now, so why let it get me down that I'm a trans lesbian in the first place?

From everything I've seen, "transtrenders" is mostly just a derogatory way to refer to NB people.

Posted: **Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:33 am**

Necroghastia wrote:
Saciu wrote:A non-dysphoric person who medically transitions will suddenly experience immense body dysphoria. They may well be unable to return to their previous life wherein they were their birth sex. Read up about detransitioners. Their existence is undeniable, and I'm sure as hell that we'll see a slew of them in the near future.

There are people who want to be LGBT, non-white etc in order to feel oppressed and thereby fit in with the stereotypical "liberal university student". I know this because I used to be one of them. I used to think it would be really cool to be LGBT. Then I realised that I'm trans, and I wish nothing more than not to be. Sadly, I can't because that's not how gender dysphoria works. You can also research transtrenders, of which there are many.

Or they would experience gender euphoria, or remain experiencing nothing at all.

The plural of anecdote is not data. And that sounds like a you problem, tbh. I'm trans and proud of it. Yeah, dysphoria sucks, living in a place where it would be vastly easier to be a cishet person sucks, but... nothing I can do about that right now, so why let it get me down that I'm a trans lesbian in the first place?

From everything I've seen, "transtrenders" is mostly just a derogatory way to refer to NB people.

If you have gender euphoria as one gender, you'll have gender dysphoria as the other. Only NB people, whose existence I doubt, would be fine as both genders - if they do exist, they are only a very small part of the population.

Your point on my anecdotal evidence: You should have said "few people", not "no one" in your original comment.

There's no reason to be proud of being trans. There's a reason to be proud of overcoming dysphoria, though.
It would always be better not to be trans. Trans will always have dysphoria and time+money consuming surgeries. Being heterosexual makes reproduction easier than being gay, while bi could go either way. Plus, heterosexual sex is simpler. If you're fine with being a trans lesbian, good for you, but it has many disadvantages, and it's hard not to see how it would get you down.

Yes, some of the more hardcore transmedicalists refer to some NB people as trenders. I think some people who say they're trans aren't, most of whom are people pretending to be trans but presenting entirely as their birth sex and being completely comfortable that way. What transtrender actually means is, quite simply, one who pretends to be transgender because they see it as trendy.

Posted: **Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:44 am**

Grenartia wrote:
Hediacrana wrote:In addition, it's worth pointing out that social dysphoria exists; it is not always exclusively about bodies and parts.

Definitely. But even if we restrict dysphoria to bodies and parts, its worth noting that transmedicalism is still fundamentally fucked up, because it ignores promoting gender euphoria in favor of focusing on getting rid of gender dysphoria. It also ignores that dysphoria is so fucking hard to explain that it is entirely possible to have it and not realize it (for those wondering how this is possible, imagine feeling like shit, but you're unable to explain why), which makes it harder for those people to transition.

This is just the tip of the iceberg for why transmedicalism is bullshit.

Totally agree.

Posted: **Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:10 am**

Jean-Paul Sartre wrote:I’m curious, among the trans people here, what are your thoughts on transmedicalism, that is, the belief that dysphoria is required to be trans?

A trash contradictory theory for people who hate gender noncomforming trans people and nonbinary trans people as well. It's repackaged gender essentialism and internalized bigotry spread by people who can't help themselves, so they want to make other people suffer. They agree with transphobes that being trans is a bad thing and makes one broken. Transmeds are to trans people what terfs are to radical feminism. It's bigotry that keeps people repressed in the closet for far too long.

However, if one wants to engage me here you go:

Gatekeeping has done nothing but harm for the trans commmunity, and I'd like to see a transmed point to actual example of it helping. And even if "trenders" did exist (they don't!), wouldn't that mean that trans people are accepted if it were seen as a cool thing to be so?

Even so, what does one mean by gender dysphoria? Body or social? Gender dysphoria can vary between people, not all of it is the same, and it is a bug, not a feature. Also, gender euphoria is a common and valid reason to transition.

But ultimately, why should we decide who's valid and isn't? Why gatekeep, when we can just accept people's self identification in a society that tells people their assigned genders at birth are fixed and unwavering that only two of that exists? Why are people trans? Because they are, most people accept born this way for non-straight people, yet, why have a theory for being trans? I think transmeds miss out on something— transgender people should not have to justify themselves for their right to exist.

Posted: **Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:13 am**

Saciu wrote:Plus, heterosexual sex is simpler.

Ha. No. It really isn't.

Posted: **Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:22 am**

Pangania wrote:transgender people are weird but hey they can do whatever they want its called freedom but its still weird to me

Hello yer dad.

The New California Republic wrote:
Saciu wrote:Plus, heterosexual sex is simpler.

Ha. No. It really isn't.

Being gay is good, actually.

I'm queer, bi/pan, and nonbinary, so wouldn't that mean every sex I do is gay?

Posted: **Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:22 am**

The New California Republic wrote:
Saciu wrote:Plus, heterosexual sex is simpler.

Ha. No. It really isn't.

If you could explain how so, that would be great.

Posted: **Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:26 am**

Saciu wrote:
Saciu wrote:Plus, heterosexual sex is simpler.

The New California Republic wrote:Ha. No. It really isn't.

If you could explain how so, that would be great.

You made the claim, so the onus is on you to prove it, not for me to disprove it.

Posted: **Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:30 am**

Auzkhia wrote:
Jean-Paul Sartre wrote:I’m curious, among the trans people here, what are your thoughts on transmedicalism, that is, the belief that dysphoria is required to be trans?

A trash contradictory theory for people who hate gender noncomforming trans people and nonbinary trans people as well. It's repackaged gender essentialism and internalized bigotry spread by people who can't help themselves, so they want to make other people suffer. They agree with transphobes that being trans is a bad thing and makes one broken. Transmeds are to trans people what terfs are to radical feminism. It's bigotry that keeps people repressed in the closet for far too long.

However, if one wants to engage me here you go:

Gatekeeping has done nothing but harm for the trans commmunity, and I'd like to see a transmed point to actual example of it helping. And even if "trenders" did exist (they don't!), wouldn't that mean that trans people are accepted if it were seen as a cool thing to be so?

Even so, what does one mean by gender dysphoria? Body or social? Gender dysphoria can vary between people, not all of it is the same, and it is a bug, not a feature. Also, gender euphoria is a common and valid reason to transition.

But ultimately, why should we decide who's valid and isn't? Why gatekeep, when we can just accept people's self identification in a society that tells people their assigned genders at birth are fixed and unwavering that only two of that exists? Why are people trans? Because they are, most people accept born this way for non-straight people, yet, why have a theory for being trans? I think transmeds miss out on something— transgender people should not have to justify themselves for their right to exist.

It must be so terrible to be non-dysphoric, and be "repressed".

Posted: **Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:31 am**

Saciu wrote:
Necroghastia wrote:
Yes, actually, because no one would be destroying their life and "oppression points" aren't a thing.

A non-dysphoric person who medically transitions will suddenly experience immense body dysphoria. They may well be unable to return to their previous life wherein they were their birth sex. Read up about detransitioners. Their existence is undeniable, and I'm sure as hell that we'll see a slew of them in the near future.

There are people who want to be LGBT, non-white etc in order to feel oppressed and thereby fit in with the stereotypical "liberal university student". I know this because I used to be one of them. I used to think it would be really cool to be LGBT. Then I realised that I'm trans, and I wish nothing more than not to be. Sadly, I can't because that's not how gender dysphoria works. You can also research transtrenders, of which there are many.

as a nondysphoric person who started medical transition years ago, literally no part of this post is true.

Posted: **Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:35 am**

Saciu wrote:
The New California Republic wrote:Ha. No. It really isn't.

If you could explain how so, that would be great.

it's clearly not simple enough for straight men to be any good at it

Posted: **Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:38 am**

Cappuccina wrote:
Auzkhia wrote:A trash contradictory theory for people who hate gender noncomforming trans people and nonbinary trans people as well. It's repackaged gender essentialism and internalized bigotry spread by people who can't help themselves, so they want to make other people suffer. They agree with transphobes that being trans is a bad thing and makes one broken. Transmeds are to trans people what terfs are to radical feminism. It's bigotry that keeps people repressed in the closet for far too long.

However, if one wants to engage me here you go:

Gatekeeping has done nothing but harm for the trans commmunity, and I'd like to see a transmed point to actual example of it helping. And even if "trenders" did exist (they don't!), wouldn't that mean that trans people are accepted if it were seen as a cool thing to be so?

Even so, what does one mean by gender dysphoria? Body or social? Gender dysphoria can vary between people, not all of it is the same, and it is a bug, not a feature. Also, gender euphoria is a common and valid reason to transition.

But ultimately, why should we decide who's valid and isn't? Why gatekeep, when we can just accept people's self identification in a society that tells people their assigned genders at birth are fixed and unwavering that only two of that exists? Why are people trans? Because they are, most people accept born this way for non-straight people, yet, why have a theory for being trans? I think transmeds miss out on something— transgender people should not have to justify themselves for their right to exist.

It must be so terrible to be non-dysphoric, and be "repressed".

Like I said, Gender euphoria is a valid reason to transition, it's a bad thing to deny someone something because they know it'd make them happier. Why deny someone a chance to be happier?

Posted: **Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:42 am**

The New California Republic wrote:
Saciu wrote:
If you could explain how so, that would be great.

You made the claim, so the onus is on you to prove it, not for me to disprove it.

That's fair. Somewhat graphic content described below

Posted: **Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:44 am**

Auzkhia wrote:
Cappuccina wrote:
It must be so terrible to be non-dysphoric, and be "repressed".

Like I said, Gender euphoria is a valid reason to transition, it's a bad thing to deny someone something because they know it'd make them happier. Why deny someone a chance to be happier?

Every transmedicalist to whom I've talked consider gender euphoria only to be present in those with gender dysphoria, meaning that gender euphoric people have gender dysphoria that manifests when they are not presenting as their preferred gender.

Posted: **Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:45 am**

Mettaton-EX wrote:
Saciu wrote:If you could explain how so, that would be great.

it's clearly not simple enough for straight men to be any good at it

In those situations, straight men could improve that statistic if they were better educated on sex.

Posted: **Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:46 am**

Mettaton-EX wrote:
Saciu wrote:A non-dysphoric person who medically transitions will suddenly experience immense body dysphoria. They may well be unable to return to their previous life wherein they were their birth sex. Read up about detransitioners. Their existence is undeniable, and I'm sure as hell that we'll see a slew of them in the near future.

There are people who want to be LGBT, non-white etc in order to feel oppressed and thereby fit in with the stereotypical "liberal university student". I know this because I used to be one of them. I used to think it would be really cool to be LGBT. Then I realised that I'm trans, and I wish nothing more than not to be. Sadly, I can't because that's not how gender dysphoria works. You can also research transtrenders, of which there are many.

as a nondysphoric person who started medical transition years ago, literally no part of this post is true.

Why did you transition?

Posted: **Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:47 am**

Saciu wrote:
Mettaton-EX wrote:it's clearly not simple enough for straight men to be any good at it

In those situations, straight men could improve that statistic if they were better educated on sex.

Being good at sex is gay.

Posted: **Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:53 am**

Ifreann wrote:
Saciu wrote:In those situations, straight men could improve that statistic if they were better educated on sex.

Being good at sex is gay.

Posted: **Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:09 am**

Saciu wrote:
The New California Republic wrote:You made the claim, so the onus is on you to prove it, not for me to disprove it.

That's fair. Somewhat graphic content described below
The main form of heterosexual sex is PIV sex. This includes a rather large hole inside which the shaft can easily fit, and natural lubricant. Both heterosexual sex and male homosexual sex offer anal and oral. Homosexual male sex's exclusive activities tend to be uninteresting and unexciting for the two men, or painful. From this, it's fair to say that heterosexuality gives more convenient sex. Female homosexual sex presents oral as a main possibility, but for anal or vaginal, extra apparatus is required. It does have more exclusive types of sex than its male counterparts, but it is more complicated than heterosexual sex. I'd say that it's fair to say that both types of homosexual sex are mechanically inferior to heterosexual sex. It does change when a third party is added, although I'm not referring to that here.

None of that actually proves what you think it proves.

Posted: **Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:11 am**

Ifreann wrote:
Saciu wrote:In those situations, straight men could improve that statistic if they were better educated on sex.

Being good at sex is gay.

What?

Posted: **Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:11 am**

The New California Republic wrote:None of that actually proves what you think it proves.

Its 0/10 content.

Cappuccina wrote:
Ifreann wrote:Being good at sex is gay.

What?

Having a gay time.

Posted: **Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:12 am**

The New California Republic wrote:
Saciu wrote:That's fair. Somewhat graphic content described below
The main form of heterosexual sex is PIV sex. This includes a rather large hole inside which the shaft can easily fit, and natural lubricant. Both heterosexual sex and male homosexual sex offer anal and oral. Homosexual male sex's exclusive activities tend to be uninteresting and unexciting for the two men, or painful. From this, it's fair to say that heterosexuality gives more convenient sex. Female homosexual sex presents oral as a main possibility, but for anal or vaginal, extra apparatus is required. It does have more exclusive types of sex than its male counterparts, but it is more complicated than heterosexual sex. I'd say that it's fair to say that both types of homosexual sex are mechanically inferior to heterosexual sex. It does change when a third party is added, although I'm not referring to that here.

None of that actually proves what you think it proves.

What do you think it proves, and what do you think I think it proves?

Posted: **Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:15 am**

Saciu wrote:
The New California Republic wrote:None of that actually proves what you think it proves.

What do you think it proves, and what do you think I think it proves?

That you don't have any proof that heterosexual sex is easier. And I assume you were trying to prove that heterosexual sex is easier? Can we get back to the debate, now that hairsplitting is out of the way?

NationStates

TDT 4: What the $#@! is a "womxn", anyways?