TDT 4: What the $#@! is a "womxn", anyways?

[Cappuccina]

To what end, exactly?

If it's pointless, why the fuck would we do that?

This is a terrible question

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/arti ... nknee.html

This is Stefonkee. She is transgender and trans age. Are those equally valid things to be?

Trans age must be valid if genderfluidity is. If this idea is to be taken to its logical conclusion.

[Des-Bal]

That's exactly what cis people originally said to trans people identifying differently from their assigned gender.

It's also what people say about flat earthers. Which one most applies here is exclusively about the strength of the evidence.

[Cekoviu]

To what end, exactly?

If it's pointless, why the fuck would we do that?

This is a terrible question

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/arti ... nknee.html

This is Stefonkee. She is transgender and trans age. Are those equally valid things to be?

Again, demanding rock-solid scientific sources for others' claims and then citing the fucking Daily Mail (and not even the regular Mail, the Femail) to support your points.

[Cekoviu]

This is a terrible question

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/arti ... nknee.html

This is Stefonkee. She is transgender and trans age. Are those equally valid things to be?

Trans age must be valid if genderfluidity is. If this idea is to be taken to its logical conclusion.

Elaborate????

[Cappuccina]

Utterly ridiculous.

That's exactly what cis people originally said to trans people identifying differently from their assigned gender.

And they we're wrong, this is a separate issue.

We're not talking about whether or not gender can be contrary to sex, but whether gender is inherent to an individual's mind....which is the whole point of bringing transgender identity in the first place. If genderfluidity is considered valid, being trans in the first place makes no sense as gender would be reduced to a whim, a fleeting feeling at any given moment.

[Des-Bal]

Again, demanding rock-solid scientific sources for others' claims and then citing the fucking Daily Mail (and not even the regular Mail, the Femail) to support your points.

What's wrong with the source? See when you nitpick sources you can't just say "bias" or "ew it's a blog" the idea is actually that there's some reason you should be skeptical of the contents therein. Are you assuming that the story was fabricated?

You should also consider who is making what points. You're talking about the existence and validity of a phenomonon, I'm giving a random example to show that it's not unheard of for humans to describe themselves in totally false terms for no discernible benefit. If you'd like to join me over at the very little to prove table you need to let go of your broad claims.

[Cappuccina]

Trans age must be valid if genderfluidity is. If this idea is to be taken to its logical conclusion.

Elaborate????

Age is inherent to an individual, you can't change it
Gender is inherent to an individual, you can't change it.

If something like gender is considered only something to be switched on and off like a light, then so can age.

[Ifreann]

Elaborate????

Age is inherent to an individual, you can't change it
Gender is inherent to an individual, you can't change it.

If something like gender is considered only something to be switched on and off like a light, then so can age.

Don't know about you, but my age changes every year. Usually around my birthday.

[Necroghastia]

Elaborate????

Age is inherent to an individual, you can't change it
Gender is inherent to an individual, you can't change it.

If something like gender is considered only something to be switched on and off like a light, then so can age.

First off, one is physiological, the other is psychological. Guess which category as a whole is much more mysterious in regards to its workings, and much less concrete in general?

Second off, as has been explained to you many times, all the genderfluid people that I'm aware of don't have conscious control over their gender, as you seem to be implying.

[The Rich Port]

This is a terrible question

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/arti ... nknee.html

This is Stefonkee. She is transgender and trans age. Are those equally valid things to be?

Trans age must be valid if genderfluidity is. If this idea is to be taken to its logical conclusion.

A slippery slope fallacy, justified by one man who is trans age.

Seriously? Seriously?

This is patently fucking ridiculous and the both of you know it.

So what some guy fucking thinks he's 7, that proves and validates absolutely nothing.

This is the most pathetic, anti-climactic "gotcha" I've ever seen. Like. Wow.

[Felt Karpit]

Age is inherent to an individual, you can't change it
Gender is inherent to an individual, you can't change it.

If something like gender is considered only something to be switched on and off like a light, then so can age.

Don't know about you, but my age changes every year. Usually around my birthday.

it's almost as if age is not a mental thing at all, and not really comparable to gender.

Also, seeing trans people debate which kind of trans people are real is always sad. Like I know people who have very fluid sexual identities, and that doesn't get questioned nearly as much as gender fluidity. We seem to want there to be a concrete biological reason for queerness, but while that may be a component, I don't think that is the end all be all. Plus, I am pretty sure studies haven't been done on gender fluid people's brains, who knows, they might actually change. The brain studies are just on what structures "light up", the actual physical brain is not that different from what I understand. Gender fluid people might actually have fluid brains. And if they don't, I don't really care. Personal identity is personal identity, and gender doesn't hurt anyone. I'm afraid if we focus too much on the brain research that is going to be a whole new form of gatekeeping because they may start scanning us to see if our brains are "male" or "female" enough and that's just scary.

[Cappuccina]

Age is inherent to an individual, you can't change it
Gender is inherent to an individual, you can't change it.

If something like gender is considered only something to be switched on and off like a light, then so can age.

Don't know about you, but my age changes every year. Usually around my birthday.

You know what I mean...if you're like 70, you can't change to a 20 year old even if you feel like one.

[Des-Bal]

A slippery slope fallacy, justified by one man who is trans age.

Seriously? Seriously?

This is patently fucking ridiculous and the both of you know it.

So what some guy fucking thinks he's 7, that proves and validates absolutely nothing.

This is the most pathetic, anti-climactic "gotcha" I've ever seen. Like. Wow.

It proves that your question was ridiculous, which was the exact thing it was supposed to do.

I'll also note you didn't respond to it. Is this guy a straight shooter whose 100% on the ball or was your suggestion that nobody would call themself something that wasn't real poorly conceived?

it's almost as if age is not a mental thing at all, and not really comparable to gender.

Also, seeing trans people debate which kind of trans people are real is always sad. Like I know people who have very fluid sexual identities, and that doesn't get questioned nearly as much as gender fluidity. We seem to want there to be a concrete biological reason for queerness, but while that may be a component, I don't think that is the end all be all. Plus, I am pretty sure studies haven't been done on gender fluid people's brains, who knows, they might actually change. The brain studies are just on what structures "light up", the actual physical brain is not that different from what I understand. Gender fluid people might actually have fluid brains. And if they don't, I don't really care. Personal identity is personal identity, and gender doesn't hurt anyone. I'm afraid if we focus too much on the brain research that is going to be a whole new form of gatekeeping because they may start scanning us to see if our brains are "male" or "female" enough and that's just scary.

There's the problem. You're talking about being able to identify who is and is not transgender as gatekeeping, as though it's a fucking party or a club.

[The Rich Port]

Don't know about you, but my age changes every year. Usually around my birthday.

You know what I mean...if you're like 70, you can't change to a 20 year old even if you feel like one.

AGE ISN'T A GENDER IDENTITY.

YOU'RE LITERALLY COMPARING APPLES AND PEBBLES.

THEY'RE NOT RELATED OR COMPARABLE. AT ALL.

[Felt Karpit]

it's almost as if age is not a mental thing at all, and not really comparable to gender.

Also, seeing trans people debate which kind of trans people are real is always sad. Like I know people who have very fluid sexual identities, and that doesn't get questioned nearly as much as gender fluidity. We seem to want there to be a concrete biological reason for queerness, but while that may be a component, I don't think that is the end all be all. Plus, I am pretty sure studies haven't been done on gender fluid people's brains, who knows, they might actually change. The brain studies are just on what structures "light up", the actual physical brain is not that different from what I understand. Gender fluid people might actually have fluid brains. And if they don't, I don't really care. Personal identity is personal identity, and gender doesn't hurt anyone. I'm afraid if we focus too much on the brain research that is going to be a whole new form of gatekeeping because they may start scanning us to see if our brains are "male" or "female" enough and that's just scary.

There's the problem. You're talking about being able to identify who is and is not transgender as gatekeeping, as though it's a fucking party or a club.

I mean, the research they did do on brain scans says that *most* trans people have brains congruent with their gender, not all. The brain scans is not enough, but people act like it is. So yeah, if people did you use brains it would be fucking gatekeeping, cause that isn't acually 100% accurate.

[Tarsonis]

This is a terrible question

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/arti ... nknee.html

This is Stefonkee. She is transgender and trans age. Are those equally valid things to be?

Trans age must be valid if genderfluidity is. If this idea is to be taken to its logical conclusion.

Rachel Dolezal is stunning and brave

[Cappuccina]

You know what I mean...if you're like 70, you can't change to a 20 year old even if you feel like one.

AGE ISN'T A GENDER IDENTITY.

YOU'RE LITERALLY COMPARING APPLES AND PEBBLES.

THEY'RE NOT RELATED OR COMPARABLE. AT ALL.

The idea of it is comparable. Gender and age are both states that cannot be changed of one's own volition, they are what they are.

Nice all-caps btw.

[Cappuccina]

Trans age must be valid if genderfluidity is. If this idea is to be taken to its logical conclusion.

Rachel Dolezal is stunning and brave

Apparently a saint and scholar of inclusivity.

Except, muh cultural appropriation, of course.

[Des-Bal]

AGE ISN'T A GENDER IDENTITY.

YOU'RE LITERALLY COMPARING APPLES AND PEBBLES.

THEY'RE NOT RELATED OR COMPARABLE. AT ALL.

There is exactly as much evidence you can be trans age as there is you can be genderfluid.

I mean, the research they did do on brain scans says that *most* trans people have brains congruent with their gender, not all. The brain scans is not enough, but people act like it is. So yeah, if people did you use brains it would be fucking gatekeeping, cause that isn't acually 100% accurate.

It's possible the measurements are not totally accurate and it's possible that not everyone who identifies as transgender actually is. There are after all people who detransition.

[Necroghastia]

AGE ISN'T A GENDER IDENTITY.

YOU'RE LITERALLY COMPARING APPLES AND PEBBLES.

THEY'RE NOT RELATED OR COMPARABLE. AT ALL.

The idea of it is comparable. Gender and age are both states that cannot be changed of one's own volition, they are what they are.

Nice all-caps btw.

First off, one is physiological, the other is psychological. Guess which category as a whole is much more mysterious in regards to its workings, and much less concrete in general?

Second off, as has been explained to you many times, all the genderfluid people that I'm aware of don't have conscious control over their gender, as you seem to be implying.

[Felt Karpit]

So when I started college I joined my schools equestrian team because it was an incredibly affordable way for me to learn to ride (I had worked at a horse barn all summer, but never actually rode horses, just took care of them). This isn't something I would have ever done when I was presenting as female, but felt fine doing now. I am literally the only thing that makes my schools equestrian team coed, but I don't feel uncomfortable doing a female dominated sport.

I'm wondering if this is a common thing, do people feel more comfortable breaking gender norms after transitioning? Or do you just avoid "opposite" gender activities all together?

[Cekoviu]

So when I started college I joined my schools equestrian team because it was an incredibly affordable way for me to learn to ride (I had worked at a horse barn all summer, but never actually rode horses, just took care of them). This isn't something I would have ever done when I was presenting as female, but felt fine doing now. I am literally the only thing that makes my schools equestrian team coed, but I don't feel uncomfortable doing a female dominated sport.

I'm wondering if this is a common thing, do people feel more comfortable breaking gender norms after transitioning? Or do you just avoid "opposite" gender activities all together?

I think it depends on how secure you are in your identity. I'm very much a tomboy in terms of many of my hobbies and general personality, but I don't think that makes me any less of a woman (since the same applies to cis women). But I'm pretty secure in my knowledge of who I am and a lot more willing to be myself now - when I was pre-transition, I felt iffy about being tomboyish, since I thought it would make people not believe me when I came out. Sadly, I do know many trans people who gave up some of their old hobbies that were more associated with the opposite gender, and they sometimes haven't returned to them because it makes them worry about not being considered a "real" man/woman due to their interests (same as I did back before I transitioned).

[Cappuccina]

The idea of it is comparable. Gender and age are both states that cannot be changed of one's own volition, they are what they are.

Nice all-caps btw.

First off, one is physiological, the other is psychological. Guess which category as a whole is much more mysterious in regards to its workings, and much less concrete in general?

Second off, as has been explained to you many times, all the genderfluid people that I'm aware of don't have conscious control over their gender, as you seem to be implying.

As I said before, utterly ridiculous.

[Felt Karpit]

So when I started college I joined my schools equestrian team because it was an incredibly affordable way for me to learn to ride (I had worked at a horse barn all summer, but never actually rode horses, just took care of them). This isn't something I would have ever done when I was presenting as female, but felt fine doing now. I am literally the only thing that makes my schools equestrian team coed, but I don't feel uncomfortable doing a female dominated sport.

I'm wondering if this is a common thing, do people feel more comfortable breaking gender norms after transitioning? Or do you just avoid "opposite" gender activities all together?

I think it depends on how secure you are in your identity. I'm very much a tomboy in terms of many of my hobbies and general personality, but I don't think that makes me any less of a woman (since the same applies to cis women). But I'm pretty secure in my knowledge of who I am and a lot more willing to be myself now - when I was pre-transition, I felt iffy about being tomboyish, since I thought it would make people not believe me when I came out. Sadly, I do know many trans people who gave up some of their old hobbies that were more associated with the opposite gender, and they sometimes haven't returned to them because it makes them worry about not being considered a "real" man/woman due to their interests (same as I did back before I transitioned).

It's funny for me, because my hobbies have become *less* masculine after I transitioned. Like I was overcompensating with masculinity before I actually knew I was trans, but then afterwards I let most of that stuff go.So I guess it is the act of knowing who you are that makes you do what you like, cause after I transitioned I realized I don't need hobbies to prove who I am. Also, hobbies really shouldn't be gendered anyway.

[Cekoviu]

I think it depends on how secure you are in your identity. I'm very much a tomboy in terms of many of my hobbies and general personality, but I don't think that makes me any less of a woman (since the same applies to cis women). But I'm pretty secure in my knowledge of who I am and a lot more willing to be myself now - when I was pre-transition, I felt iffy about being tomboyish, since I thought it would make people not believe me when I came out. Sadly, I do know many trans people who gave up some of their old hobbies that were more associated with the opposite gender, and they sometimes haven't returned to them because it makes them worry about not being considered a "real" man/woman due to their interests (same as I did back before I transitioned).

It's funny for me, because my hobbies have become *less* masculine after I transitioned. Like I was overcompensating with masculinity before I actually knew I was trans, but then afterwards I let most of that stuff go.So I guess it is the act of knowing who you are that makes you do what you like, cause after I transitioned I realized I don't need hobbies to prove who I am. Also, hobbies really shouldn't be gendered anyway.

Yeah, I was doing that to some degree in the months leading up to my coming out (wherein my dysphoria intensified quickly and heavily).