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Trans Discussion Thread 4: #Morals Over Money

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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What do you think of this? viewtopic.php?p=36390707#p36390707

She shouldn't have said anything, money matters more than ethics, the bar was right to fire her
12
11%
She was right to speak up, ethics matter more than money, the bar was wrong to fire her
60
56%
She shouldn't have said anything, but the bar was wrong to fire her anyways
8
7%
She was right to speak up, but the bar was right to fire her
23
21%
Unsure/no opinion
5
5%
 
Total votes : 108

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Tarsonis
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Postby Tarsonis » Thu May 23, 2019 10:33 am

Cekoviu wrote:
Tarsonis wrote:
It's pretty obnoxious that the trans community tells me who I'm supposed to be attracted to.

I literally said nothing about who you are supposed to be attracted to, and I consider it a benefit that someone like you wouldn't try to pursue me due to my trans status. Don't put words in my mouth.


Quite the contrary the issue at hand has been about sexual attraction based on gender presentation ass opposed to biological sex. The obvious implication that I'm supposed believe that trans women are women and date them or else I'm "transphobic" or whatever inane slander your group throws at people these days.
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Ecclesiastes 1:18 "For in much wisdom is much vexation, and those who increase knowledge increase sorrow"
Galatians 6:7 " Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for you reap whatever you sow."
1 Corinthians 5:12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?
T. Stevens: "I don't hold with equality in all things, but I believe in equality under the Law."
James I of Aragon "Have you ever considered that our position is Idolatry to the Rabbi?"
Debating Christian Theology with Non-Christians pretty much anybody be like

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Des-Bal
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Postby Des-Bal » Thu May 23, 2019 10:34 am

Cappuccina wrote:Most trans people don't pass unfortunately. It's pretty difficult to even get HRT or SRS depending on where you live.


Even if they did get it when did they get it? Someone who began transitioning in adolescence is going to end up looking more convincing than someone who started in their 40s and even if they started young by the time you hit 60 it's an uphill battle.
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The Xenopolis Confederation
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Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Thu May 23, 2019 10:34 am

Cekoviu wrote:
The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:Okay, no need to throw shade. *clutches pearls* Let's keep it polite and wholesome.

I'm not in the mood for polite or wholesome right now; quite the opposite.

Well get in the mood! ♪Cuz all you need is love!♪ And other platitudes. I'm bad at this.
Pro: Liberty, Liberalism, Capitalism, Secularism, Equal opportunity, Direct Democracy, Windows Chauvinism, Psychedelic Rock, LGBT+ Rights, Live and let live tbh.
Against: Authoritarianism, Traditionalism, Non-Market-Socialism, Laissez-Faire Capitalism, Autocracy, (A)Theocracy, Macs, "The ends justify the means," Collectivism in all its forms.
Economic: 0.5
Social: -8
I'm an 18 year old Australian who tries to think about things but fails, as we all do. I'll regret this in 2 years tops.

I think I have gender dysphoria so I'd prefer you use she/her pronouns on me. If not, he/him'll do.

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Cappuccina
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Postby Cappuccina » Thu May 23, 2019 10:35 am

Cekoviu wrote:
Cappuccina wrote:Most trans people don't pass unfortunately. It's pretty difficult to even get HRT or SRS depending on where you live.

SRS isn't really relevant to passing, because trans women can tuck and trans men can pack. HRT is definitely very useful, though, and perhaps if Tarsonis lives somewhere where HRT is difficult to access, their assumption is actually true.
However, it's not always required - I passed with just spironolactone, no HRT.


It is rather depending on individual basis, true. Done people can just pass with a few changes to presentation.
Muslim, Female, Not white..... oppression points x3!!!!
"The hope of a new politics does not lie in formulating a left-wing reply to the right, it lies in rejecting conventional political categories." -Christopher Lasch
Automobile fan!!! ^_^
Left/Right: -5.25
SocLib/Auth: 2.46

وحاربهم حتى لم يعد هناك فتنة ، والعبادة ستكون كلها لله وحده.

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Cekoviu
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Postby Cekoviu » Thu May 23, 2019 10:36 am

Tarsonis wrote:
Cekoviu wrote:I literally said nothing about who you are supposed to be attracted to, and I consider it a benefit that someone like you wouldn't try to pursue me due to my trans status. Don't put words in my mouth.


Quite the contrary the issue at hand has been about sexual attraction based on gender presentation ass opposed to biological sex. The obvious implication that I'm supposed believe that trans women are women and date them or else I'm "transphobic" or whatever inane slander your group throws at people these days.

If you don't think trans women are women, that is transphobic lol
В каком автобусе вы живете? А почему?
I often leave my posts unintentionally vague, so if you find yourself needing to make assumptions to piece together my positions, please just ask me to clarify.
Torrocca wrote:"Your honor, it was not mein fault! I didn't order the systematic genocide of millions of people, it was the twenty kilograms of pure-cut Bavarian cocaine that did it!"
Liriena wrote:anyone to the left of Pinochet: *exists*

right-wingers: wat about vuvuzelaaa lmao gottem

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Tarsonis
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Postby Tarsonis » Thu May 23, 2019 10:37 am

Cekoviu wrote:
Tarsonis wrote:
Quite the contrary the issue at hand has been about sexual attraction based on gender presentation ass opposed to biological sex. The obvious implication that I'm supposed believe that trans women are women and date them or else I'm "transphobic" or whatever inane slander your group throws at people these days.

If you don't think trans women are women, that is transphobic lol


Like I said, inane slander.
Proud NS Keyboard Warrior since 2005.
Ecclesiastes 1:18 "For in much wisdom is much vexation, and those who increase knowledge increase sorrow"
Galatians 6:7 " Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for you reap whatever you sow."
1 Corinthians 5:12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?
T. Stevens: "I don't hold with equality in all things, but I believe in equality under the Law."
James I of Aragon "Have you ever considered that our position is Idolatry to the Rabbi?"
Debating Christian Theology with Non-Christians pretty much anybody be like

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Des-Bal
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Postby Des-Bal » Thu May 23, 2019 10:37 am

Cappuccina wrote:It is rather depending on individual basis, true. Done people can just pass with a few changes to presentation.


There are also cisgender people who get mistaken for the opposite sex. Passing is really the conflux of genetics, talent, and timing. I'd be surprised to learn it worked out for most people.
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Cekoviu
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Postby Cekoviu » Thu May 23, 2019 10:38 am

Tarsonis wrote:
Cekoviu wrote:If you don't think trans women are women, that is transphobic lol


Like I said, inane slander.

Please, maintain your preferences. It'd do all trans women a favor.
В каком автобусе вы живете? А почему?
I often leave my posts unintentionally vague, so if you find yourself needing to make assumptions to piece together my positions, please just ask me to clarify.
Torrocca wrote:"Your honor, it was not mein fault! I didn't order the systematic genocide of millions of people, it was the twenty kilograms of pure-cut Bavarian cocaine that did it!"
Liriena wrote:anyone to the left of Pinochet: *exists*

right-wingers: wat about vuvuzelaaa lmao gottem

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Des-Bal
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Posts: 28830
Founded: Jan 24, 2010
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Des-Bal » Thu May 23, 2019 10:38 am

Cekoviu wrote:If you don't think trans women are women, that is transphobic lol


Would you say anyone who would't date a transgender person is transphobic?
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Tarsonis
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Postby Tarsonis » Thu May 23, 2019 10:39 am

Cekoviu wrote:
Tarsonis wrote:
Like I said, inane slander.

Please, maintain your preferences. It'd do all trans women a favor.


Anything I can do to help the cause. ;)
Proud NS Keyboard Warrior since 2005.
Ecclesiastes 1:18 "For in much wisdom is much vexation, and those who increase knowledge increase sorrow"
Galatians 6:7 " Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for you reap whatever you sow."
1 Corinthians 5:12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?
T. Stevens: "I don't hold with equality in all things, but I believe in equality under the Law."
James I of Aragon "Have you ever considered that our position is Idolatry to the Rabbi?"
Debating Christian Theology with Non-Christians pretty much anybody be like

User avatar
Cappuccina
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Founded: Jun 05, 2018
Authoritarian Democracy

Postby Cappuccina » Thu May 23, 2019 10:42 am

Des-Bal wrote:
Cappuccina wrote:It is rather depending on individual basis, true. Done people can just pass with a few changes to presentation.


There are also cisgender people who get mistaken for the opposite sex. Passing is really the conflux of genetics, talent, and timing. I'd be surprised to learn it worked out for most people.

True, very true.

Cekoviu wrote:
Tarsonis wrote:
Quite the contrary the issue at hand has been about sexual attraction based on gender presentation ass opposed to biological sex. The obvious implication that I'm supposed believe that trans women are women and date them or else I'm "transphobic" or whatever inane slander your group throws at people these days.

If you don't think trans women are women, that is transphobic lol


I wouldn't say "transphobic" exactly, definitely lacking understanding though.
Muslim, Female, Not white..... oppression points x3!!!!
"The hope of a new politics does not lie in formulating a left-wing reply to the right, it lies in rejecting conventional political categories." -Christopher Lasch
Automobile fan!!! ^_^
Left/Right: -5.25
SocLib/Auth: 2.46

وحاربهم حتى لم يعد هناك فتنة ، والعبادة ستكون كلها لله وحده.

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Tarsonis
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Postby Tarsonis » Thu May 23, 2019 10:42 am

Cappuccina wrote:
Des-Bal wrote:
There are also cisgender people who get mistaken for the opposite sex. Passing is really the conflux of genetics, talent, and timing. I'd be surprised to learn it worked out for most people.

True, very true.

Cekoviu wrote:If you don't think trans women are women, that is transphobic lol


I wouldn't say "transphobic" exactly, definitely lacking understanding though.


No, not lacking understanding, rather rejecting the premise.
Proud NS Keyboard Warrior since 2005.
Ecclesiastes 1:18 "For in much wisdom is much vexation, and those who increase knowledge increase sorrow"
Galatians 6:7 " Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for you reap whatever you sow."
1 Corinthians 5:12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?
T. Stevens: "I don't hold with equality in all things, but I believe in equality under the Law."
James I of Aragon "Have you ever considered that our position is Idolatry to the Rabbi?"
Debating Christian Theology with Non-Christians pretty much anybody be like

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Cekoviu
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Founded: Oct 18, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Cekoviu » Thu May 23, 2019 10:48 am

Cappuccina wrote:
Cekoviu wrote:If you don't think trans women are women, that is transphobic lol


I wouldn't say "transphobic" exactly, definitely lacking understanding though.

No, that's basically the quintessential transphobia.
В каком автобусе вы живете? А почему?
I often leave my posts unintentionally vague, so if you find yourself needing to make assumptions to piece together my positions, please just ask me to clarify.
Torrocca wrote:"Your honor, it was not mein fault! I didn't order the systematic genocide of millions of people, it was the twenty kilograms of pure-cut Bavarian cocaine that did it!"
Liriena wrote:anyone to the left of Pinochet: *exists*

right-wingers: wat about vuvuzelaaa lmao gottem

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Cappuccina
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Founded: Jun 05, 2018
Authoritarian Democracy

Postby Cappuccina » Thu May 23, 2019 10:49 am

Tarsonis wrote:
Cappuccina wrote:True, very true.



I wouldn't say "transphobic" exactly, definitely lacking understanding though.


No, not lacking understanding, rather rejecting the premise.


Which still wouldn't make you "transphobic", not necessarily. Playing devil's advocate here, an argument could be made that trans women aren't women. Even though I don't agree with that...it does beg the question, how far can the term "man" and "woman" be bent before they're meaningless (an issue I have with the left in general in regards to use of vocabulary).
Muslim, Female, Not white..... oppression points x3!!!!
"The hope of a new politics does not lie in formulating a left-wing reply to the right, it lies in rejecting conventional political categories." -Christopher Lasch
Automobile fan!!! ^_^
Left/Right: -5.25
SocLib/Auth: 2.46

وحاربهم حتى لم يعد هناك فتنة ، والعبادة ستكون كلها لله وحده.

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Des-Bal
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Postby Des-Bal » Thu May 23, 2019 10:51 am

Cekoviu wrote:No, that's basically the quintessential transphobia.


How do you define transphobia?

Cappuccina wrote:Which still wouldn't make you "transphobic", not necessarily. Playing devil's advocate here, an argument could be made that trans women aren't women. Even though I don't agree with that...it does beg the question, how far can the term "man" and "woman" be bent before they're meaningless (an issue I have with the left in general in regards to use of vocabulary).


I think we can separate sex and gender at a physiological level and whether someone is referred to as a man or woman is purely an issue of whether the language refers to one category or the other. If woman refers to someone whose gender would be traditionally female then transgender women are women. You can argue one definition or the other but I don't think there's a risk of it becoming meaningless.
Last edited by Des-Bal on Thu May 23, 2019 10:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Cekoviu
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Postby Cekoviu » Thu May 23, 2019 10:52 am

Cappuccina wrote:
Tarsonis wrote:
No, not lacking understanding, rather rejecting the premise.


Which still wouldn't make you "transphobic", not necessarily. Playing devil's advocate here, an argument could be made that trans women aren't women. Even though I don't agree with that...it does beg the question, how far can the term "man" and "woman" be bent before they're meaningless (an issue I have with the left in general in regards to use of vocabulary).

I mean, if you define "woman" as "adult human with functional ovaries, a vulva, XX chromosomes, and estrogen outnumbering testosterone", yes? But that's nearly impossible to know if you're not a medical provider and it's not the generally used definition, as well as excluding quite a few non-transgender people, which is what linguistic meaning actually is. There is a very clear cut end to the way that "man" and "woman" are used: as soon as you stop identifying with those terms, you are not one.
В каком автобусе вы живете? А почему?
I often leave my posts unintentionally vague, so if you find yourself needing to make assumptions to piece together my positions, please just ask me to clarify.
Torrocca wrote:"Your honor, it was not mein fault! I didn't order the systematic genocide of millions of people, it was the twenty kilograms of pure-cut Bavarian cocaine that did it!"
Liriena wrote:anyone to the left of Pinochet: *exists*

right-wingers: wat about vuvuzelaaa lmao gottem

User avatar
The Xenopolis Confederation
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Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Thu May 23, 2019 10:53 am

Des-Bal wrote:
Cekoviu wrote:No, that's basically the quintessential transphobia.


How do you define transphobia?

Bigotry against trans people. If you do not think that a trans person is ever the gender they identify as then you are essentially against transgenderism, thus anti-trans.
Pro: Liberty, Liberalism, Capitalism, Secularism, Equal opportunity, Direct Democracy, Windows Chauvinism, Psychedelic Rock, LGBT+ Rights, Live and let live tbh.
Against: Authoritarianism, Traditionalism, Non-Market-Socialism, Laissez-Faire Capitalism, Autocracy, (A)Theocracy, Macs, "The ends justify the means," Collectivism in all its forms.
Economic: 0.5
Social: -8
I'm an 18 year old Australian who tries to think about things but fails, as we all do. I'll regret this in 2 years tops.

I think I have gender dysphoria so I'd prefer you use she/her pronouns on me. If not, he/him'll do.

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Cekoviu
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Postby Cekoviu » Thu May 23, 2019 10:55 am

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:
Des-Bal wrote:
How do you define transphobia?

Bigotry against trans people. If you do not think that a trans person is ever the gender they identify as then you are essentially against transgenderism, thus anti-trans.

Please don't encourage sealioning.
В каком автобусе вы живете? А почему?
I often leave my posts unintentionally vague, so if you find yourself needing to make assumptions to piece together my positions, please just ask me to clarify.
Torrocca wrote:"Your honor, it was not mein fault! I didn't order the systematic genocide of millions of people, it was the twenty kilograms of pure-cut Bavarian cocaine that did it!"
Liriena wrote:anyone to the left of Pinochet: *exists*

right-wingers: wat about vuvuzelaaa lmao gottem

User avatar
Des-Bal
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Posts: 28830
Founded: Jan 24, 2010
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Des-Bal » Thu May 23, 2019 10:57 am

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:Bigotry against trans people. If you do not think that a trans person is ever the gender they identify as then you are essentially against transgenderism, thus anti-trans.


Well what is bigotry? Phobia, bigotry, anti-, these words prefixes, and suffixes evoke hate, fear, and prejudice. I think they're too often used as a cudgel against people whose bigotry is really just adopting a dissenting position.

Cekoviu wrote:Please don't encourage sealioning.


I am increasingly convinced you don't know what that word means. Asking someone to explain their position so you can in turn explain your own is not sea lioning or any other form of trolling, it just how discussions work.
Last edited by Des-Bal on Thu May 23, 2019 11:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Tarsonis
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Postby Tarsonis » Thu May 23, 2019 10:59 am

Des-Bal wrote:
The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:Bigotry against trans people. If you do not think that a trans person is ever the gender they identify as then you are essentially against transgenderism, thus anti-trans.


Well what is bigotry? Phobia, bigotry, anti-, these words prefixes, and suffixes evoke hate, fear, and prejudice. I think they're too often used as a cudgel against people whose bigotry is really just adopting a dissenting position.


You're not allowed to disagree Des, you must accept everything whole cloth. Otherwise you're some form of ist/phobic
Proud NS Keyboard Warrior since 2005.
Ecclesiastes 1:18 "For in much wisdom is much vexation, and those who increase knowledge increase sorrow"
Galatians 6:7 " Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for you reap whatever you sow."
1 Corinthians 5:12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?
T. Stevens: "I don't hold with equality in all things, but I believe in equality under the Law."
James I of Aragon "Have you ever considered that our position is Idolatry to the Rabbi?"
Debating Christian Theology with Non-Christians pretty much anybody be like

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Cappuccina
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Founded: Jun 05, 2018
Authoritarian Democracy

Postby Cappuccina » Thu May 23, 2019 11:00 am

Cekoviu wrote:
Cappuccina wrote:
Which still wouldn't make you "transphobic", not necessarily. Playing devil's advocate here, an argument could be made that trans women aren't women. Even though I don't agree with that...it does beg the question, how far can the term "man" and "woman" be bent before they're meaningless (an issue I have with the left in general in regards to use of vocabulary).

I mean, if you define "woman" as "adult human with functional ovaries, a vulva, XX chromosomes, and estrogen outnumbering testosterone", yes? But that's nearly impossible to know if you're not a medical provider and it's not the generally used definition, as well as excluding quite a few non-transgender people, which is what linguistic meaning actually is. There is a very clear cut end to the way that "man" and "woman" are used: as soon as you stop identifying with those terms, you are not one.

Is it really about "identification" though? Even if we take sex out of the question, gender is integral to a person's being, cis or trans. There is no "identifying" you're either a man or a woman, innately.

If we make it simply about "identification" it waters the issue down to nothing but whim, that's how we get so-called "gender fluid" people.
Muslim, Female, Not white..... oppression points x3!!!!
"The hope of a new politics does not lie in formulating a left-wing reply to the right, it lies in rejecting conventional political categories." -Christopher Lasch
Automobile fan!!! ^_^
Left/Right: -5.25
SocLib/Auth: 2.46

وحاربهم حتى لم يعد هناك فتنة ، والعبادة ستكون كلها لله وحده.

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The Xenopolis Confederation
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Founded: Aug 11, 2017
Anarchy

Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Thu May 23, 2019 11:00 am

Cekoviu wrote:
The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:Bigotry against trans people. If you do not think that a trans person is ever the gender they identify as then you are essentially against transgenderism, thus anti-trans.

Please don't encourage sealioning.

I don't really know if it is sealioning. Even if it is, it helps me develop my ideas at least.
Pro: Liberty, Liberalism, Capitalism, Secularism, Equal opportunity, Direct Democracy, Windows Chauvinism, Psychedelic Rock, LGBT+ Rights, Live and let live tbh.
Against: Authoritarianism, Traditionalism, Non-Market-Socialism, Laissez-Faire Capitalism, Autocracy, (A)Theocracy, Macs, "The ends justify the means," Collectivism in all its forms.
Economic: 0.5
Social: -8
I'm an 18 year old Australian who tries to think about things but fails, as we all do. I'll regret this in 2 years tops.

I think I have gender dysphoria so I'd prefer you use she/her pronouns on me. If not, he/him'll do.

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Des-Bal
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Posts: 28830
Founded: Jan 24, 2010
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Des-Bal » Thu May 23, 2019 11:01 am

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:I don't really know if it is sealioning. Even if it is, it helps me develop my ideas at least.


Yeah that's pretty much what a discussion forum is about. Even if you can't change someone's ideas you can understand your own a little better.
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Cappuccina
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Postby Cappuccina » Thu May 23, 2019 11:02 am

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:
Cekoviu wrote:Please don't encourage sealioning.

I don't really know if it is sealioning. Even if it is, it helps me develop my ideas at least.

Can someone please tell me what "sealioning" is? :blink:
Muslim, Female, Not white..... oppression points x3!!!!
"The hope of a new politics does not lie in formulating a left-wing reply to the right, it lies in rejecting conventional political categories." -Christopher Lasch
Automobile fan!!! ^_^
Left/Right: -5.25
SocLib/Auth: 2.46

وحاربهم حتى لم يعد هناك فتنة ، والعبادة ستكون كلها لله وحده.

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Grenartia
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Founded: Feb 14, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Grenartia » Thu May 23, 2019 11:04 am

Cekoviu wrote:
Tarsonis wrote:
Nothing that inane but Des is correct. While allowing that gender presentation is a nuanced issue, sexual attraction is based the traits associated with biological sex, rather than strict gender presentation. I can only speak from personal anecdote but most mtf transpersons i've encountered were recognizable as such. Only once have I encountered someone who had transitioned so thoroughly it wasn't readily obvious, and after being informed they were trans, all semblance of attraction instantly evaporated.

You think that you only know trans women who look masculine because those are the only ones you recognize as trans. The majority of the trans people you've encountered pass and it's obnoxious that people still fall for this survivor bias bullshit.


Indeed.

Its also worth mentioning that this bit right here:

Only once have I encountered someone who had transitioned so thoroughly it wasn't readily obvious, and after being informed they were trans, all semblance of attraction instantly evaporated.


Only happened because he has a negative view of trans people in general.

Cekoviu wrote:
Des-Bal wrote:
And here's the heart of the issue. Everyone's ignorant and of course you can't be bothered to explain anything. This is why, you should note, that people dismiss how much these terms matter and write them off as cultural shibboleths. That said- I went ahead and touched base with wikipedia and Sjwiki to operationalize a definition and make sure we were talking about the same thing. I am not inviting you to be my tutor, I'm offering you the chance to explain or acknowledge what really looks like pointless snipping.

You're sealioning and you're accusing me of pointless snipping? I'm tired of your fucking bullshit.


This is the reason I have him on ignore.

Tarsonis wrote:
Cekoviu wrote:You think that you only know trans women who look masculine because those are the only ones you recognize as trans. The majority of the trans people you've encountered pass and it's obnoxious that people still fall for this survivor bias bullshit.


It's pretty obnoxious that the trans community tells me who I'm supposed to be attracted to.


Except, nobody was saying that, at all. Stop trying to make yourself a "victim" of "the trans".

Cappuccina wrote:
Tarsonis wrote:
Only if they've transitioned so much that their body also presents as the opposite biological sex. For instance Emilia Clark fully dressed as John Snow parading around Time Square, I still find attractive. James Charles pronouncing around Coachella in female lingerie, I don't.

Most trans people don't pass unfortunately. It's pretty difficult to even get HRT or SRS depending on where you live.


Its a whole bunch of bullshit.

When we can't pass, we're "men in dresses" and thus not valid. When we do pass, we're "playing up to stereotypes of femininity", and thus not valid. Damned if we do, damned if we don't, and I'm sick and fucking tired of it.

Cekoviu wrote:
Cappuccina wrote:Most trans people don't pass unfortunately. It's pretty difficult to even get HRT or SRS depending on where you live.

SRS isn't really relevant to passing, because trans women can tuck and trans men can pack. HRT is definitely very useful, though, and perhaps if Tarsonis lives somewhere where HRT is difficult to access, their assumption is actually true.
However, it's not always required - I passed with just spironolactone, no HRT.


Considering his sig says he graduated from Yale, I'm gonna guess somewhere in Massachusetts, and IIRC, HRT isn't that hard to get up there.

Also, you're the girl with the golden genetics.

Tarsonis wrote:
Cekoviu wrote:I literally said nothing about who you are supposed to be attracted to, and I consider it a benefit that someone like you wouldn't try to pursue me due to my trans status. Don't put words in my mouth.


Quite the contrary the issue at hand has been about sexual attraction based on gender presentation ass opposed to biological sex. The obvious implication that I'm supposed believe that trans women are women and date them or else I'm "transphobic" or whatever inane slander your group throws at people these days.


God, I can just hear the passive-aggression dripping off of this post.

Yes, transwomen are women (and your incredulity at being expected to understand that is transphobic), and no, you're not supposed to always date us, but the fact that you've found one of us attractive prior to finding out she's trans, and then that attraction immediately went away is also proof of your ingrained transphobia. If she was attractive to you before, she should be attractive to you after.

Cappuccina wrote:
Cekoviu wrote:SRS isn't really relevant to passing, because trans women can tuck and trans men can pack. HRT is definitely very useful, though, and perhaps if Tarsonis lives somewhere where HRT is difficult to access, their assumption is actually true.
However, it's not always required - I passed with just spironolactone, no HRT.


It is rather depending on individual basis, true. Done people can just pass with a few changes to presentation.


I feel like the whole preoccupation with passing is:

1. Ignorant of various issues that prevent people from actually passing.
2. Classist, as often, the requirements to reliably pass for many people who didn't luck out in the genetic jackpot are very expensive.
3. Toxic, since it only reinforces that we're only valid if we "look nice". Trans people who can't pass are fucking valid. Cis people who are ""unattractive"" are also fucking valid.

Tarsonis wrote:
Cekoviu wrote:If you don't think trans women are women, that is transphobic lol


Like I said, inane slander.


You just don't like hearing that you have personal attitude problems that negatively affect other people and that you should work on.
Impeach Humanity, Legalize Death Stars, Life is TheftWis/Gren 2016 Something all cisgender allies should start doing. I wear teal, blue & pink for Swith. ⚧Copy and paste this in your sig if you passed biology and know gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧
"Don't take life so serious. It isn't permanent."-Dyakovo
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Please use they/them/their when referencing me, as I do NOT appreciate the other pronouns.
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