TDT 4: What the $#@! is a "womxn", anyways?

[Souseiseki]

we're on target for the "we will end up stuck with gender neutral toilets + women's toilets in every building" prophecy to come true.

also while i'm in this thread i'm finally getting healthcare for my insane gender issues, only took like 14 years haha.

[CoraSpia]

...So apparently not only is the UK government trying for a Bathroom Bill they also want to make the provision of gender-neutral toilets and changing rooms illegal. At least that's the takeaway I'm getting from the consultation document.

It's a bit more complicated than that, and it does not sounds as if outright "bans" are being proposed. However, the publishing of such a consultation and the context-setting justifications that are provided do suggest to me that there are some political games being played from a distinctly "culture war" playbook.

"As part of this review, the merits of any best practice guidance on the provision of a gender-neutral toilet, as part of a wider balanced mix of gender-specific male and female toilets – where space allows – will be considered, alongside the interaction with the necessary provision of access to disabled toilets". This sounds nicely neutral - who could be opposed to a balanced mix, after all?

The problem I have is that I see no evidence that there is currently an unbalanced mix in favour of gender neutral toilets. Is there really a trend "towards the removal of well-established male-only/female-only spaces when premises are built or refurbished" and replacement of them with gender-neutral toilets as the consultation suggests? I have seen venues temporarily change the labels on doors for a "queer" night, and I have seen venues provide a single gender-neutral toilet somewhere out of the way while having the main block still be male/female divided. Is that an unbalanced mix in which women's needs are under threat? The presentation of the consultation suggests that we are currently in the process of seeing male/female toilets removed from public spaces. Basic commercial and consumer-driven imperatives mean that isn't happening and isn't particularly likely to happen. Most people feel uncomfortable in gender-neutral toilets and it would cause trouble, complaints and dissatisfaction if they were the only option at a venue. Some radical activists may want all toilets to be gender-neutral, but that does not mean that this is in any way happening.

My conclusion is that the consultation looks a lot like creating a problem for the purposes of political exploitation and doing some "I am on your side" virtue signalling to try to get feminists to vote Tory.

I will admit, I've gotten firmly on the 'just make all toilets gender-neutral now ffs' bandwagon now. I've spent years using gender neutral toilets, because I use the disabled bogs. I don't need to, I don't have a wheelchair, but they smell nicer and I'm blind so allowed, sue me.
The problem I'm having at the minute though is that when a lot of places, notably universities, make gender neutral toilets they like to view the disabled toilet as just a convenient signage change. I'm not sure there's anybody here who needs me to explain why doing this is bad.

[Vassenor]

So we have yet more academic evidence that prescribing puberty blockers has a positive impact for trans kids.

[Kowani]

crossposting:

Kansas Republicans seek to criminalize gender reassignment treatment for minors

[Kowani]

UCLA suspends trans study that purposefully induced gender dysphoria

[Luminesa]

UCLA suspends trans study that purposefully induced gender dysphoria

Yeah let’s...not induce a painful psychological condition on these people on purpose...

[Auzkhia]

UCLA suspends trans study that purposefully induced gender dysphoria

Yeah let’s...not induce a painful psychological condition on these people on purpose...

Especially since that study was looking for "alternative cures" for trans people, i.e. to see if they could medicated them into being cis, and they used anorexia treatment studies as precedent.

[Serrus]

Yeah let’s...not induce a painful psychological condition on these people on purpose...

Especially since that study was looking for "alternative cures" for trans people, i.e. to see if they could medicated them into being cis, and they used anorexia treatment studies as precedent.

It gets worse the longer you look

[Kowani]

Iowa Republicans seek to prevent schools from teaching the concept of gender identity

Republicans in the state of Iowa are trying to ban schools from teaching about gender identity.

A bill (S.F. 167) would update elementary school curriculum standards in the state to say, “The curriculum provided to a student in accordance with this subsection shall not include instruction relating to gender identity.” The bill says that if teachers do intend to discuss gender identity in school, they’ll need to get written permission from all the students’ parents first. The bill, introduced by eight Republican state lawmakers, does not block schools from using the concept of gender at all. It requires that teachers not discuss the idea that there is a “gender-related identity of a person, regardless of the person’s assigned sex at birth.”

Bill text here

[Des-Bal]

Especially since that study was looking for "alternative cures" for trans people, i.e. to see if they could medicated them into being cis, and they used anorexia treatment studies as precedent.

Why exactly is that not okay? Medical and psychological care are already a thing for transgender people, why would it matter which side of the incongruity is addressed?
I'll also go ahead and disagree with stopping the study, if you want to understand what dysphoria is and how it works their model seems pretty logical and if it's substantially more harmful than the similar strategy used in researching anorexia or any kind of study that requires inducing a stress response the case was not made by the letter.

[The New California Republic]

Crosspost from UKPol:

A pioneering shop owner who opened the UK's first gay book store has died at the age of 73.

Peter Dorey, who was among a small group of gay activists, opened Gay's The Word in Bloomsbury in central London in 1979. The shop acted as a "safe place" for LGBTQ+ communities during a period of oppression and discrimination.

Mr Dorey, who was raised in Harrow, passed away on Friday following years of poor health, his family confirmed.

In 1984, the store was raided by HM Customs and Excise who seized thousands of pounds worth of stock. Charges were brought against the staff and directors for importing "indecent" material. The case gathered a great deal of media coverage and questions were raised in the House of Commons before the charges were finally dropped, Mr MacSweeney said.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-56111865

[Auzkhia]

Especially since that study was looking for "alternative cures" for trans people, i.e. to see if they could medicated them into being cis, and they used anorexia treatment studies as precedent.

Why exactly is that not okay? Medical and psychological care are already a thing for transgender people, why would it matter which side of the incongruity is addressed?
I'll also go ahead and disagree with stopping the study, if you want to understand what dysphoria is and how it works their model seems pretty logical and if it's substantially more harmful than the similar strategy used in researching anorexia or any kind of study that requires inducing a stress response the case was not made by the letter.

1: Look up biomedical ethics and get back to me with that.
2: A "cure" exists, it's called transitioning. Just letting trans people be themselves is the best thing for them, and tons of psychological studies confirm this. Disagree all you want, it just doesn't change the fact that trans happiness is obtainable.

[Alcala-Cordel]

Especially since that study was looking for "alternative cures" for trans people, i.e. to see if they could medicated them into being cis, and they used anorexia treatment studies as precedent.

Why exactly is that not okay? Medical and psychological care are already a thing for transgender people, why would it matter which side of the incongruity is addressed?
I'll also go ahead and disagree with stopping the study, if you want to understand what dysphoria is and how it works their model seems pretty logical and if it's substantially more harmful than the similar strategy used in researching anorexia or any kind of study that requires inducing a stress response the case was not made by the letter.

Only there's nothing wrong with wanting to transition. Why not just leave them alone and not conduct pointless, unethical studies?

[Kowani]

Interesting: The Utah House of Representatives passed a bill that would ban transgender girls from participating in high school sports, but Gov. Spencer Cox (R) says he would not sign the bill if it were placed on his desk now.

A day after Utah's House of Representatives passed a bill that would ban transgender girls from participating in high school sports, Gov. Spencer Cox said he would not sign the bill if it were placed on his desk now.

"I'm not in a place yet where I'm comfortable with the bill as it stands right now," the governor said Thursday morning during his monthly news conference on PBS Utah.
[...]
Cox said his biggest problem with the bill is that didn't address enough concerns provided by the LGBTQ community, adding that Utah has "gotten really good on the 'LGBQ' side of things but we're struggling on the 'T' side of things."

The governor was asked during his news conference specifically if he would veto the bill should it pass the Senate. Cox responded that he understood the meaning of the bill — saying there was a "threat" to women's sports — but added that he believed there might be more time needed before pushing through the legislation.

"It is a threat to women's sports but also, and I think this is where we have to be so, so very careful, is that if you have not spent time with transgender youth, then I would encourage you to pause on this issue," he said. "We have so many people that are in a very, very difficult spot right now and we have very few, if any, transgender girls who are participating in sports."

For that reason, Cox said he wouldn't sign it as written. He argued that there is still time for legislators to hash out the concerns of the "really difficult and nuanced issues" that the bill addresses.

"I'm not willing to give up on this one. I think there's still much that we can do to protect women's sports and also send a message to trans kids that there's a place for them and that they belong," Cox continued, as he began to fight back tears. "These kids are — they're just trying to stay alive. … I just think there's a better way."

[Auzkhia]

Interesting: The Utah House of Representatives passed a bill that would ban transgender girls from participating in high school sports, but Gov. Spencer Cox (R) says he would not sign the bill if it were placed on his desk now.

A day after Utah's House of Representatives passed a bill that would ban transgender girls from participating in high school sports, Gov. Spencer Cox said he would not sign the bill if it were placed on his desk now.

"I'm not in a place yet where I'm comfortable with the bill as it stands right now," the governor said Thursday morning during his monthly news conference on PBS Utah.
[...]
Cox said his biggest problem with the bill is that didn't address enough concerns provided by the LGBTQ community, adding that Utah has "gotten really good on the 'LGBQ' side of things but we're struggling on the 'T' side of things."

The governor was asked during his news conference specifically if he would veto the bill should it pass the Senate. Cox responded that he understood the meaning of the bill — saying there was a "threat" to women's sports — but added that he believed there might be more time needed before pushing through the legislation.

"It is a threat to women's sports but also, and I think this is where we have to be so, so very careful, is that if you have not spent time with transgender youth, then I would encourage you to pause on this issue," he said. "We have so many people that are in a very, very difficult spot right now and we have very few, if any, transgender girls who are participating in sports."

For that reason, Cox said he wouldn't sign it as written. He argued that there is still time for legislators to hash out the concerns of the "really difficult and nuanced issues" that the bill addresses.

"I'm not willing to give up on this one. I think there's still much that we can do to protect women's sports and also send a message to trans kids that there's a place for them and that they belong," Cox continued, as he began to fight back tears. "These kids are — they're just trying to stay alive. … I just think there's a better way."

And down in Georgia

Georgia considering “a panel of three physicians” to evaluate girls’ genitals for school sports

The Republican held state governments are fighting a cultural war against trans youth, especially trans girls and transfem children. It's disgustingly wrong. Conservatives claim to "think of the children" in a good way, but it's really sick and about sticking it to a minority group they despise.

[Necroghastia]

let's force underage girls to expose themselves to a bunch of strangers! it's for their own protection!

[Auzkhia]

let's force underage girls to expose themselves to a bunch of strangers! it's for their own protection!

Same energy as demanding strangers reveal their genitals to prevent sexual assault in restrooms.

[Kowani]

Virginia to ban the “Gay and Trans Panic” defense, 28-15 (Senate), 58-39 (House)

For those that don’t know, those are used to excuse people who commit violent crimes against LGBT+ people because they “discovered” their gender identity or sexual orientation, or because they were verbally propositioned

[Auzkhia]

Virginia to ban the “Gay and Trans Panic” defense, 28-15 (Senate), 58-39 (House)

For those that don’t know, those are used to excuse people who commit violent crimes against LGBT+ people because they “discovered” their gender identity or sexual orientation, or because they were verbally propositioned

Introduced by Gentlewoman Danica Roem in the House of Delegates, now the governor just needs to sign and he most certainly will.

[Predsedatel]

The Trans-Siberian Orchestra is not trans. This is disinformation - is this thread sponsored by the Five Eyes?

[Proctopeo]

Since I've been hearing about it a lot elsewhere, what's the regular's thoughts on the recent wave of "Assigned Male" drama - specifically, that the author was discovered to have a side account where they made furry kink art, with at least one image having been based on a picture of a real child? Excuse my curiosity, she is rather infamous online for various things preceding this specific event.

[The Blaatschapen]

Since I've been hearing about it a lot elsewhere, what's the regular's thoughts on the recent wave of "Assigned Male" drama - specifically, that the author was discovered to have a side account where they made furry kink art, with at least one image having been based on a picture of a real child? Excuse my curiosity, she is rather infamous online for various things preceding this specific event.

I am unfamiliar with this drama, and when I read about this from you, I am happy to stay unfamiliar with the topic

[Zul-ar]

Why exactly is that not okay? Medical and psychological care are already a thing for transgender people, why would it matter which side of the incongruity is addressed?
I'll also go ahead and disagree with stopping the study, if you want to understand what dysphoria is and how it works their model seems pretty logical and if it's substantially more harmful than the similar strategy used in researching anorexia or any kind of study that requires inducing a stress response the case was not made by the letter.

Only there's nothing wrong with wanting to transition. Why not just leave them alone and not conduct pointless, unethical studies?

Playing the devil's advocate here, but if there was an easier alternative to transitioning that could limit disruption to your daily life, then wouldn't it be a good thing to have that option?

For example, an AMAB person in a marriage with kids experiences gender dysphoria. For them, a "gender dysphoria go away" pill would be a superior option to upending their entire life in order to transition.

The trans suicide rate is very high, and part of that is because society is full of bigots who aren't accepting of people who transition, transitioning can be very difficult, and gender dysphoria might not even completely go away. Looking into alternative treatments gives us a chance to provide different options for people with different needs, and there's even a possibility we'll find a more effective treatment than transitioning.

But we won't know until we try, and shutting down studies seems counterproductive.

[Arcturus Novus]

Since I've been hearing about it a lot elsewhere, what's the regular's thoughts on the recent wave of "Assigned Male" drama - specifically, that the author was discovered to have a side account where they made furry kink art, with at least one image having been based on a picture of a real child? Excuse my curiosity, she is rather infamous online for various things preceding this specific event.

She sounds awful but idk who that is

[National Capitalist United States]

Since I've been hearing about it a lot elsewhere, what's the regular's thoughts on the recent wave of "Assigned Male" drama - specifically, that the author was discovered to have a side account where they made furry kink art, with at least one image having been based on a picture of a real child? Excuse my curiosity, she is rather infamous online for various things preceding this specific event.

Excuse me...






WHAT THE FUCK!?