TDT 4: What the $#@! is a "womxn", anyways?

[Cancolastan]

Now, as this mess continues to plague nations, we are to close borders, and close communications off.

[Cekoviu]

Given that you apparently want to resurrect Yugoslavia, I don't think you can call us crazy.

Given that you want to mutilate yourself just to be happy and then never find happiness after that, I dont think you can call yourself sane

Joke's on you - I'm unhappy because I'll never find love, not because of gender dysphoria (in fact, I'm far happier after transitioning)!

[Cekoviu]

Now, as this mess continues to plague nations, we are to close borders, and close communications off.

You still don't seem to understand the fact that the General forum is out. of. character.

[Slavakino]

Given that you want to mutilate yourself just to be happy and then never find happiness after that, I dont think you can call yourself sane

Joke's on you - I'm unhappy because I'll never find love, not because of gender dysphoria (in fact, I'm far happier after transitioning)!

Good for you

[Cekoviu]

Joke's on you - I'm unhappy because I'll never find love, not because of gender dysphoria (in fact, I'm far happier after transitioning)!

Good for you

No response to that?

[Drongonia]

Since I was already here, I want to ask the following from some of you that might be more knowledgeable, and be warned, it's dark.

Why is it that trans people and people in some of the rarer factions of the LGBT community, especially those who aren't gender conforming, have either attempted to commit suicide or have done so? Could it possibly be that wanting to self-mutilate and change your life forever by transitioning gender is a manifestation of the depression/anxiety/loneliness that many people, youths especially, feel?

And if that were to be true, rather than promoting people to change genders and make a decision which they potentially later regret, leading to genuine cases of body dysphoria and the like, how about we get these people mental health help for their underlying conditions?

These are genuine questions from someone who has seen friends go through this whole thing (transitioning gender and then attempt to take their own lives.)

I do also understand the fact that people who identify differently get bullied which is one of the largest contributors to youth suicide in any form, but that surely can't be all there is to it.

Sources for me wanting to ask this question:

(University of Tuscon study)
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-heal ... SKCN1LS39K

(LGBT Health Study in Sweden)
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5905855

(UCLA Study with the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention)
https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/ ... -Final.pdf

(University of Auckland study)
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/arti ... d=11896922

[Auzkhia]

So, dragging away from the current threadjack, the House passed the trans-inclusive Equality Act yesterday.

Awesome news.

I hope it passes the senate too and becomes law one day. But that's unlikely right now. Legal equality is the bare minimum.

[Slavakino]

Good for you

No response to that?

No, im just saying good for you.

[Cekoviu]

Why is it that trans people and people in some of the rarer factions of the LGBT community, especially those who aren't gender conforming, have either attempted to commit suicide or have done so? Could it possibly be that wanting to self-mutilate and change your life forever by transitioning gender is a manifestation of the depression/anxiety/loneliness that many people, youths especially, feel?

There is a significant difference between body dysphoria and desire to self-harm, which is immediately clear to a specialist assessing the mental condition of a youth (or adult) to see if transitioning is the right choice. Self-mutilation is a terrible way to describe a serious issue of the body's misalignment with the brain, and while some desperate people will try to perform surgery on themselves, this is not indicative of the self-harm found due to depression. Depression and anxiety associated with gender dysphoria stem from it; they don't form it.
What you're doing here is overestimating your knowledge of the subject and wildly speculating through seemingly logical, but totally unsupported premises.

And if that were to be true, rather than promoting people to change genders and make a decision which they potentially later regret, leading to genuine cases of body dysphoria and the like, how about we get these people mental health help for their underlying conditions?

Here's the thing: there is no treatment other than transitioning. We've tried over and over again to find anything else, whether chemical or psychiatric, to relieve gender dysphoria. Transitioning isn't a magical fix and it takes a very long time to truly lack any gender dysphoria, and it may never happen. But it vastly, empirically helps.
And transgender and non-binary youth generally go through therapy if it can be afforded, so it's not like they're not receiving mental health checks.

These are genuine questions from someone who has seen friends go through this whole thing (transitioning gender and then attempt to take their own lives.)

I do also understand the fact that people who identify differently get bullied which is one of the largest contributors to youth suicide in any form, but that surely can't be all there is to it.

If you aren't a trans person in an unsupportive environment, you cannot possibly understand how bad it is. I can't understand how bad it is, because I have passing privilege and a supportive family and school. The sheer amount of ostracism, obvious contempt, and even violence that is found in a great many people's lives definitely is enough to make somebody want to commit suicide on its own. Couple that with a crippling hatred of your own body and watching in horror as it goes through a process which permanently mutilates it into something that feels wrong, and it's hard to see why someone wouldn't want to kill themselves.

[Grenartia]

So, dragging away from the current threadjack, the House passed the trans-inclusive Equality Act yesterday.

Excellent!

On a somewhat related note, I liked discovering some time ago that two of the Democratic presidential hopefuls (Harris and Gillibrand) have voiced support for third gender options on federal IDs.

My biggest problem with Harris is her terrible treatment with regards to trans prisoners and healthcare, and her blatant hypocrisy on marijuana.

I'm not sure how I feel about Gillibrand, tbh, but this definitely does reflect positively on her.

Given that you apparently want to resurrect Yugoslavia, I don't think you can call us crazy.

Given that you want to mutilate yourself just to be happy and then never find happiness after that, I dont think you can call yourself sane

Brave of you to assume I want to "mutilate" myself.

Now, as this mess continues to plague nations, we are to close borders, and close communications off.

You were the one who barged in here. Also, this is an OUT OF CHARACTER FORUM. You post as you, the player, not the nation you created. What's so damn hard to comprehend about that?

Since I was already here, I want to ask the following from some of you that might be more knowledgeable, and be warned, it's dark.

Why is it that trans people and people in some of the rarer factions of the LGBT community, especially those who aren't gender conforming, have either attempted to commit suicide or have done so? Could it possibly be that wanting to self-mutilate and change your life forever by transitioning gender is a manifestation of the depression/anxiety/loneliness that many people, youths especially, feel?[/qutoe]

Transition is not mutilation, and it is well documented that the suicide rate is due to being treated like shit by wider society.

And if that were to be true, rather than promoting people to change genders and make a decision which they potentially later regret, leading to genuine cases of body dysphoria and the like, how about we get these people mental health help for their underlying conditions?

Well, its not true, so your point is moot, but its worth noting that the first step of transition literally IS to see a certified and qualified mental health professional.

These are genuine questions from someone who has seen friends go through this whole thing (transitioning gender and then attempt to take their own lives.)

I do also understand the fact that people who identify differently get bullied which is one of the largest contributors to youth suicide in any form, but that surely can't be all there is to it.

Well, it differs from bullying against cishet (cisgender, heterosexual) people in that when you get bullied, there is generally some sort of social support network (i.e., parents, teachers, administrators, faith leaders, friends, etc.). While not all of those categories of people will be a source of support for a cishet person getting bullied, at least one tends to be (and the number of cases where there is no support is lower in general).

However, many people (unfortunately, though fortunately, that number seems to be shrinking, but the treatment seems to get worse from those who remain transphobic) tend to put their personal prejudices against the very existence of trans people ahead of the needs of the trans people they know. So support networks aren't as effective as they would otherwise be. Even with supportive parents and administration, for instance, terrible teachers, faith leaders, and peers can successfully harass a family with a trans kid out of the school system. To provide just one example.

Sources for me wanting to ask this question:

(University of Tuscon study)
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-heal ... SKCN1LS39K

(LGBT Health Study in Sweden)
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5905855

(UCLA Study with the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention)
https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/ ... -Final.pdf

(University of Auckland study)
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/arti ... d=11896922

For what its worth, I appreciate that you used quality sources.

If you aren't a trans person in an unsupportive environment, you cannot possibly understand how bad it is. I can't understand how bad it is, because I have passing privilege and a supportive family and school. The sheer amount of ostracism, obvious contempt, and even violence that is found in a great many people's lives definitely is enough to make somebody want to commit suicide on its own. Couple that with a crippling hatred of your own body and watching in horror as it goes through a process which permanently mutilates it into something that feels wrong, and it's hard to see why someone wouldn't want to kill themselves.

Back when I thought I was cis (but still queer), I feared for my life about coming out to my family. And I knew my school wouldn't have any helpful resources, and nothing in my area existed. I honestly was suicidal, and I absolutely know I would've tried it if I had hatched while still in the environment I was in back then.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

If DI's a Stalinist, I'm an Ancap.

Crikey, are you implying that you aren't?

Are you serious? What possessed me to give you the impression I was an Ancap?

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

Holy shit, imagine hating basic facts - like what somebody said - so much you'd rather listen to what some fuckwit from /pol/ said about that somebody rather than what that somebody in question actually said lmao.

This is so utterly fucking stupid that I really don't have the right words to properly describe how utterly asinine what you're saying is. This is the fucking peakest form of anti-intellectualism possible: choosing to believe what somebody else is saying that some person said rather than ever so simply listening to what that person in question actually said.

I see you didn't read what I wrote.
You seem... upset, Torra. Has anything happened in your life recently that you're trying to take out on me?

Proct, lay off with this scummy concern trolling.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

He literally just said in the post below that he was memeing

Well, this is a fucking lie.

and he doesn’t have any deep-seated connection with /pol/.

I'm sorry, where the fuck did I say he had a deep-seated connection with /pol/? Because I'm pretty sure calling him out for finding /pol/'s deep-rooted Neo-Nazism more trustworthy than leftists isn't the same as that.

Like...didn’t you say you were done?

I'm done posting with Proct, that's for sure.

You went into a rant at Procto which didn’t make any sense,

It made perfect sense. Apparently, though, it's somehow hard for you to comprehend that all I was saying is that Proct's obviously, horrifically wrong for thinking the average /pol/ user - a message board where the average is literally Neo-Nazism - is more trustworthy to him than a leftist.

and then stated you were done, then came back twice to make...absolutely no point. Whatever makes you feel good I guess?

I came back firstly to point out the hilarity in how Proct didn't even try to disprove my accusation of him trusting Neo-Nazis more than leftists, which he did do and which he's now calling slander even though anyone reading the conversation can see clear as fucking day that's not true, and secondly to respond to your posts.

To be fair, not all /pol/ users are Nazis, and the distaste for identity politics expressed by the user Proct quoted gives the impression that the quoted user was one of the non-Nazis.

[Torrocca]

Well, this is a fucking lie.



I'm sorry, where the fuck did I say he had a deep-seated connection with /pol/? Because I'm pretty sure calling him out for finding /pol/'s deep-rooted Neo-Nazism more trustworthy than leftists isn't the same as that.



I'm done posting with Proct, that's for sure.



It made perfect sense. Apparently, though, it's somehow hard for you to comprehend that all I was saying is that Proct's obviously, horrifically wrong for thinking the average /pol/ user - a message board where the average is literally Neo-Nazism - is more trustworthy to him than a leftist.



I came back firstly to point out the hilarity in how Proct didn't even try to disprove my accusation of him trusting Neo-Nazis more than leftists, which he did do and which he's now calling slander even though anyone reading the conversation can see clear as fucking day that's not true, and secondly to respond to your posts.

To be fair, not all /pol/ users are Nazis, and the distaste for identity politics expressed by the user Proct quoted gives the impression that the quoted user was one of the non-Nazis.

Considering /pol/'s rife with Neo-Nazism, and considering Proct quite literally said the average /pol/ user is more worthwhile to listen to than a leftist, I'd say it's safe to say he's saying Neo-Nazis are worthwhile people to listen to. But I digress, that's enough of that topic for this thread, since it's irrelevant here.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

To be fair, not all /pol/ users are Nazis, and the distaste for identity politics expressed by the user Proct quoted gives the impression that the quoted user was one of the non-Nazis.

Considering /pol/'s rife with Neo-Nazism, and considering Proct quite literally said the average /pol/ user is more worthwhile to listen to than a leftist, I'd say it's safe to say he's saying Neo-Nazis are worthwhile people to listen to. But I digress, that's enough of that topic for this thread, since it's irrelevant here.

Ok, I don't know what he was thinking saying the average pol user is better than the average leftuber.

[Vassenor]

So, dragging away from the current threadjack, the House passed the trans-inclusive Equality Act yesterday.

Awesome news.

I hope it passes the senate too and becomes law one day. But that's unlikely right now. Legal equality is the bare minimum.

It'll probably die in the Senate because Jesus.

Assuming McConnell doesn't block it from being voted on because heaven forbid they have to treat the gays as human beings.

[Iciaros]

That's good! Glad to hear things are going well for you. Hopefully it continues to get better from here on out. ^.^

On my end, I've been out to my parents for a while, and I usually wear my feminine clothes when I go out, but I only very recently started wearing those clothes around my parents (out of necessity more than anything else; I needed to get my sweet monster of a kitty to the vet, and I have neither a car nor driver's license). My father just takes it with no comment, as usual, but my mother clearly isn't happy about it. She won't force me to do anything or try to kick me out of the house or something, but she very obviously doesn't approve. Today when I was going out, she said "You better not let [your grandfather] see you wearing that", which is kind of the way she expresses her displeasure (through pointing out practical issues unrelated to the actual source of her unhappiness). When I came back, she told me to go get changed, to which I asked "Why? Is [my grandfather] coming over?", and she conspicuously didn't reply.

So, yeah. Neither of my parents are really 'supportive' in that way to much as 'resigned', though my mother more so. Unfortunate, and it does make me sad / annoyed / awkward, but they deserve to feel however they want. I'm eventually planning to move out when I'm financially independent, anyway, so hopefully that time comes soon.

In other news, I'm planning to legally change my name. I can't change my legal gender, but having a feminine name will make passing in school a lot easier. I'm hoping to start wearing dresses and such when my next term begins. It's a good thing I'm basically invisible, or else people might notice the change.

I'm gonna disagree heavily with you, and say that your parents don't "deserve" to feel that way. They deserve to be happy that you're taking steps to improve your happiness.

I guess that's true, parents are supposed to be happy when their kid is happy. When I was writing that I was thinking more along the lines of 'they're gonna feel however they feel and there's nothing I can do about that', rather than to comment on oughts, but deserve just slipped out. Whoops?

So, dragging away from the current threadjack, the House passed the trans-inclusive Equality Act yesterday.

Yayy! I kinda tune out of US news because it gets me depressed, but this is nice. The article is a bit pessimistic about the Senate chances, though, and I think it's probably right. Guess every silver lining has some rust on it.

What do you mean, silver doesn't rust?

[Auzkhia]

Awesome news.

I hope it passes the senate too and becomes law one day. But that's unlikely right now. Legal equality is the bare minimum.

It'll probably die in the Senate because Jesus.

Assuming McConnell doesn't block it from being voted on because heaven forbid they have to treat the gays as human beings.

Oh and it if does somehow pass that, the President said he'd veto it, and the Senate won't override it because it needs a supermajority in both chambers of the US congress.

Very unlikely when the executive branch has made it clear it does not respect the rights of the LGBTQ community of the US, especially trans people.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

It'll probably die in the Senate because Jesus.

Assuming McConnell doesn't block it from being voted on because heaven forbid they have to treat the gays as human beings.

Oh and it if does somehow pass that, the President said he'd veto it, and the Senate won't override it because it needs a supermajority in both chambers of the US congress.

Very unlikely when the executive branch has made it clear it does not respect the rights of the LGBTQ community of the US, especially trans people.

When did Trump say he'd veto it?

[Auzkhia]

Oh and it if does somehow pass that, the President said he'd veto it, and the Senate won't override it because it needs a supermajority in both chambers of the US congress.

Very unlikely when the executive branch has made it clear it does not respect the rights of the LGBTQ community of the US, especially trans people.

When did Trump say he'd veto it?

He didn't say it outright, but he's not really for it and most expect to veto it, assuming it passes to him via the Senate. But I hope I am proved wrong in that regard.

[Proctopeo]

I see you didn't read what I wrote.
You seem... upset, Torra. Has anything happened in your life recently that you're trying to take out on me?

Proct, lay off with this scummy concern trolling.

I would if I were actually doing that. My concern is legitimate.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

Proct, lay off with this scummy concern trolling.

I would if I were actually doing that. My concern is legitimate.

You've a funny way of showing it.

[Dumb Ideologies]

Yes yes, everyone got a bit heated, no-one emerged with much credit, not much point perpetuating the thing by picking over the bones and trying to work out who gets 55% of the blame and who gets 45%.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

Yes yes, everyone got a bit heated, no-one emerged with much credit, not much point perpetuating the thing by picking over the bones and trying to work out who gets 55% of the blame and who gets 45%.

I was just asking questions because I was absent at the time, but yes, the blame game is something that's not a good time for anyone.

[Torrocca]

I would if I were actually doing that. My concern is legitimate.

You've a funny way of showing it.

Yeah, real funny. Almost like it wasn't genuine or anything, since he just kept randomly peddling it right in the open on a public internet forum as if to pretend it was a valid concern in order to show everyone how totally, legitimately concerned he was over a scenario he completely made up. Really funny, that.