TDT 4: What the $#@! is a "womxn", anyways?

[Auzkhia]

A person's internal experiences can not be conclusively proven or disproven, and this is something anyone from any scientific discipline will tell you. Hard science cannot tell you about someone's internal experiences. So, yes, you are holding people to unfair and impossible standards by demanding proof for things that cannot be proven.

Then how do we decide whose internal experiences are valid or not?

We don't.

I think it is safe to presume that someone speaking in good faith about their gender is right and that one could never know more their self perception than we could.

[Des-Bal]

We don't.

I think it is safe to presume that someone speaking in good faith about their gender is right and that one could never know more their self perception than we could.

Including Godgendered people

[Punished UMN]

Then how do we decide whose internal experiences are valid or not?

We don't.

I think it is safe to presume that someone speaking in good faith about their gender is right and that one could never know more their self perception than we could.

So if someone is insane, should we just accept that, or force them into our norm?

[Necroghastia]

We don't.

I think it is safe to presume that someone speaking in good faith about their gender is right and that one could never know more their self perception than we could.

So if someone is insane, should we just accept that, or force them into our norm?

Define "insane."

[Punished UMN]

So if someone is insane, should we just accept that, or force them into our norm?

Define "insane."

Not of sound mind.

[Necroghastia]

Define "insane."

Not of sound mind.

How pointlessly vague.

[Auzkhia]

Define "insane."

Not of sound mind.

By whose measures?

Even if you went to say the average therapist and told them that you were questioning your gender they'd often believe that at face value, same thing if you said you were a woman, or a man, or non-binary, etc. Even an endocrinologist is relying on self-identification.

[Des-Bal]

So if someone is insane, should we just accept that, or force them into our norm?

No, not at all. In fact this is an incredibly intolerant crowd.

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americ ... html%3famp

This is Stefonkee, a transgender transage person. I introduced her before and people responded with disgust and suggested she must be a sex pervert using this rhetoric to gain access to victims unironically mirroring the rhetoric of terfs and bigots without a seconds thought.

This is the difference between understanding and acceptance, if your opinions aren't guided by evidence and reason you're just making judgements about whether you are pro or anti a person or group. That's just fucking gross.

[Punished UMN]

Not of sound mind.

How pointlessly vague.

It's really not given that it's a legal standard.

[Grenartia]

How pointlessly vague.

It's really not given that it's a legal standard.

Unless it inherently causes a negative effect on their life, why should it matter?

Should we consider religious belief "not of sound mind"? After all, there's no objective proof for the veracity of any given religious person's theological beliefs.

[Des-Bal]

Unless it inherently causes a negative effect on their life, why should it matter?

Should we consider religious belief "not of sound mind"? After all, there's no objective proof for the veracity of any given religious person's theological beliefs.

Being transgender is a religion.

[Auzkhia]

Is it trans cult time?

Is this how I, as a transgender person, peak?

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

We don't.

I think it is safe to presume that someone speaking in good faith about their gender is right and that one could never know more their self perception than we could.

So if someone is insane, should we just accept that, or force them into our norm?

Neither. You don't need to accept insanity, but you also don't need to force the "insane" to conform to the common idea of sanity.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

Unless it inherently causes a negative effect on their life, why should it matter?

Should we consider religious belief "not of sound mind"? After all, there's no objective proof for the veracity of any given religious person's theological beliefs.

Being transgender is a religion.

Religion =/= taking certain things on faith.

[Grenartia]

Unless it inherently causes a negative effect on their life, why should it matter?

Should we consider religious belief "not of sound mind"? After all, there's no objective proof for the veracity of any given religious person's theological beliefs.

Being transgender is a religion.

You miss the point so frequently, its impossible to believe you're doing anything other than purposely engaging in bad faith.

On the off chance you are genuine, no, being trans is not the same as having a religion, but they are both intensely personal phenomena that cannot be objectively proven or disproven.

[Auzkhia]

So if someone is insane, should we just accept that, or force them into our norm?

Neither. You don't need to accept insanity, but you also don't need to force the "insane" to conform to the common idea of sanity.

This is almost reminding me of discussions on transmedicalism, the biggest, slimiest can of worms on any transgender forum, in which it pathologizes transsexualism or being trans with a prerequisite of gender dysphoria, as one of its ideological cores. Being trans is no different than insanity or any other mental illness to the transmed. But I think it does too much harm to use as a narrative to explain why someone is trans, which itself as a nearly impossible task as you ask four and get five takes on their gender. Dysphoria and suffering don't have to be the only true trans experiences. It is part of many people's lives as transgender individuals, but it is not everyone's lives, some may find euphoria, pride, joy, and new leases on life when embracing their identity, it is something one can celebrate as part of the complex diversity of life and people. Being cisgender is as normal as being transgender, neither are abnormal, just different people going back their lives.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Neither. You don't need to accept insanity, but you also don't need to force the "insane" to conform to the common idea of sanity.

This is almost reminding me of discussions on transmedicalism, the biggest, slimiest can of worms on any transgender forum, in which it pathologizes transsexualism or being trans with a prerequisite of gender dysphoria, as one of its ideological cores. Being trans is no different than insanity or any other mental illness to the transmed. But I think it does too much harm to use as a narrative to explain why someone is trans, which itself as a nearly impossible task as you ask four and get five takes on their gender. Dysphoria and suffering don't have to be the only true trans experiences. It is part of many people's lives as transgender individuals, but it is not everyone's lives, some may find euphoria, pride, joy, and new leases on life when embracing their identity, it is something one can celebrate as part of the complex diversity of life and people. Being cisgender is as normal as being transgender, neither are abnormal, just different people going back their lives.

That’s pretty much what truscum are.

[Wink Wonk We Like Stonks]

Unless it inherently causes a negative effect on their life, why should it matter?

Should we consider religious belief "not of sound mind"? After all, there's no objective proof for the veracity of any given religious person's theological beliefs.

Being transgender is a religion.

*prayer intensifies*



based

[Wink Wonk We Like Stonks]

Neither. You don't need to accept insanity, but you also don't need to force the "insane" to conform to the common idea of sanity.

This is almost reminding me of discussions on transmedicalism, the biggest, slimiest can of worms on any transgender forum, in which it pathologizes transsexualism or being trans with a prerequisite of gender dysphoria, as one of its ideological cores. Being trans is no different than insanity or any other mental illness to the transmed. But I think it does too much harm to use as a narrative to explain why someone is trans, which itself as a nearly impossible task as you ask four and get five takes on their gender. Dysphoria and suffering don't have to be the only true trans experiences. It is part of many people's lives as transgender individuals, but it is not everyone's lives, some may find euphoria, pride, joy, and new leases on life when embracing their identity, it is something one can celebrate as part of the complex diversity of life and people. Being cisgender is as normal as being transgender, neither are abnormal, just different people going back their lives.

wholeheartedly this.

[Wink Wonk We Like Stonks]

Is it trans cult time?

Is this how I, as a transgender person, peak?

yes. don't forget to attend the ritual summoning of free hormones next friday.

[Des-Bal]

You miss the point so frequently, its impossible to believe you're doing anything other than purposely engaging in bad faith.

On the off chance you are genuine, no, being trans is not the same as having a religion, but they are both intensely personal phenomena that cannot be objectively proven or disproven.

The point is you say absurd things and don't consider their implications.

Religion as a concept exists, it's just that they are all to the best of my knowledge wrong and the evidence supports that pretty well. At a conceptual level nonbinary people, psychics, and faith healers exist it's just that all evidence suggests that they're all wrong or lying.

What if I'm a plural system and one of my personas is the female diclonious Lucy from the anime Elfin Lied. Why am I speaking in hypotheticals, you view rational skepticism as bigotry, I am totally that insane thing I just said. I expect you to refer to me by my preferred pronouns, they change them every nine minutes as I cycle through my personas. You're cool with that right?

[New haven america]

You miss the point so frequently, its impossible to believe you're doing anything other than purposely engaging in bad faith.

On the off chance you are genuine, no, being trans is not the same as having a religion, but they are both intensely personal phenomena that cannot be objectively proven or disproven.

The point is you say absurd things and don't consider their implications.

Religion as a concept exists, it's just that they are all to the best of my knowledge wrong and the evidence supports that pretty well. At a conceptual level nonbinary people, psychics, and faith healers exist it's just that all evidence suggests that they're all wrong or lying.

What if I'm a plural system and one of my personas is the female diclonious Lucy from the anime Elfin Lied. Why am I speaking in hypotheticals, you view rational skepticism as bigotry, I am totally that insane thing I just said. I expect you to refer to me by my preferred pronouns, they change them every nine minutes as I cycle through my personas. You're cool with that right?

Sure.

[ArenaC]

You miss the point so frequently, its impossible to believe you're doing anything other than purposely engaging in bad faith.

On the off chance you are genuine, no, being trans is not the same as having a religion, but they are both intensely personal phenomena that cannot be objectively proven or disproven.

The point is you say absurd things and don't consider their implications.

Religion as a concept exists, it's just that they are all to the best of my knowledge wrong and the evidence supports that pretty well. At a conceptual level nonbinary people, psychics, and faith healers exist it's just that all evidence suggests that they're all wrong or lying.

What if I'm a plural system and one of my personas is the female diclonious Lucy from the anime Elfin Lied. Why am I speaking in hypotheticals, you view rational skepticism as bigotry, I am totally that insane thing I just said. I expect you to refer to me by my preferred pronouns, they change them every nine minutes as I cycle through my personas. You're cool with that right?

i would be very thrown off but i'm not trans so i'll just see myself out

leaves

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

You miss the point so frequently, its impossible to believe you're doing anything other than purposely engaging in bad faith.

On the off chance you are genuine, no, being trans is not the same as having a religion, but they are both intensely personal phenomena that cannot be objectively proven or disproven.

The point is you say absurd things and don't consider their implications.

Religion as a concept exists, it's just that they are all to the best of my knowledge wrong and the evidence supports that pretty well. At a conceptual level nonbinary people, psychics, and faith healers exist it's just that all evidence suggests that they're all wrong or lying.

What if I'm a plural system and one of my personas is the female diclonious Lucy from the anime Elfin Lied. Why am I speaking in hypotheticals, you view rational skepticism as bigotry, I am totally that insane thing I just said. I expect you to refer to me by my preferred pronouns, they change them every nine minutes as I cycle through my personas. You're cool with that right?

You're making it out as if being non-binary and wanting to be referred to as "they/them" where applicable, is a kin to being a hyper otherkin headmatee or something.

[Punished UMN]

It's really not given that it's a legal standard.

Unless it inherently causes a negative effect on their life, why should it matter?

Should we consider religious belief "not of sound mind"? After all, there's no objective proof for the veracity of any given religious person's theological beliefs.

Is schizophrenia on the same level as religion and being trans?