TDT 4: What the $#@! is a "womxn", anyways?

[West Leas Oros 2]

I've managed to get myself into another trans debate on twitter (that seems to be about 10 transphobes vs 1 trans person i.e. me). I was wondering if anybody has any statistics on the occurrence of trans women doing creepy behaviour in women's changing rooms and toilets, such as installing cameras etc. I'm hoping that such incidents are as rare as you've all led me to believe.

I have yet to see anyone cite such an argument and back it up with evidence. Literally no one i've ever seen use this argument has given actual proof. It's a talking point, nothing more. "It's an excuse for creepiness" is the flimsiest argument i've heard.

[Wink Wonk We Like Stonks]

I've managed to get myself into another trans debate on twitter (that seems to be about 10 transphobes vs 1 trans person i.e. me). I was wondering if anybody has any statistics on the occurrence of trans women doing creepy behaviour in women's changing rooms and toilets, such as installing cameras etc. I'm hoping that such incidents are as rare as you've all led me to believe.

I have yet to see anyone cite such an argument and back it up with evidence. Literally no one i've ever seen use this argument has given actual proof. It's a talking point, nothing more. "It's an excuse for creepiness" is the flimsiest argument i've heard.

Exactly. Sexual predators don't care what bathroom they have to go into to violate people. I don't see why one would go through the effort of transitioning for the sole purpose of harassing people they could have harassed anyway.

[Kowani]

I've managed to get myself into another trans debate on twitter (that seems to be about 10 transphobes vs 1 trans person i.e. me). I was wondering if anybody has any statistics on the occurrence of trans women doing creepy behaviour in women's changing rooms and toilets, such as installing cameras etc. I'm hoping that such incidents are as rare as you've all led me to believe.

Link this with the obligatory “facts don’t care about your feelings” line.

[Wink Wonk We Like Stonks]

Came out to my friends and they were cool about it, so that was nice.

[Langguo]

It's my first week of college and I've been nervous about professors' responses to my request that they use my preferred name in class (I try to be as polite as possible and explain that gender dysphoria makes it extremely uncomfortable to be referred to by my dead name). The feeling that I got in one of my Zoom classes was that my teacher was deliberately avoiding referring to me because she mentioned the other students in the group by their names. My language professor denied my request that I introduce myself as my preferred name in an online assignment (e.g. instead of being allowed to write『Mi nombre es Lăng,』 I am supposed to write 『Mi nombre es [legal name]』) without explaining the reasoning.

I don't think anyone can help me discern their motives, and I don't want to attribute malice anywhere without just cause, especially when these instances are extremely small and could just be my own misperceptions, but considering I live in a rural environment, I'm naturally worried about what the next semester will be like. When I manage to finally change it on my documents, that will be a big relief.

[Hediacrana]

Came out to my friends and they were cool about it, so that was nice.

Wonderful - congratulations, so glad this was a good experience to you!

It's my first week of college and I've been nervous about professors' responses to my request that they use my preferred name in class (I try to be as polite as possible and explain that gender dysphoria makes it extremely uncomfortable to be referred to by my dead name). The feeling that I got in one of my Zoom classes was that my teacher was deliberately avoiding referring to me because she mentioned the other students in the group by their names. My language professor denied my request that I introduce myself as my preferred name in an online assignment (e.g. instead of being allowed to write『Mi nombre es Lăng,』 I am supposed to write 『Mi nombre es [legal name]』) without explaining the reasoning.

I don't think anyone can help me discern their motives, and I don't want to attribute malice anywhere without just cause, especially when these instances are extremely small and could just be my own misperceptions, but considering I live in a rural environment, I'm naturally worried about what the next semester will be like. When I manage to finally change it on my documents, that will be a big relief.

It does sound like your professors are handling it in a poor way. I'm sorry to hear it.

[The Rich Port]

It's my first week of college and I've been nervous about professors' responses to my request that they use my preferred name in class (I try to be as polite as possible and explain that gender dysphoria makes it extremely uncomfortable to be referred to by my dead name). The feeling that I got in one of my Zoom classes was that my teacher was deliberately avoiding referring to me because she mentioned the other students in the group by their names. My language professor denied my request that I introduce myself as my preferred name in an online assignment (e.g. instead of being allowed to write『Mi nombre es Lăng,』 I am supposed to write 『Mi nombre es [legal name]』) without explaining the reasoning.

I don't think anyone can help me discern their motives, and I don't want to attribute malice anywhere without just cause, especially when these instances are extremely small and could just be my own misperceptions, but considering I live in a rural environment, I'm naturally worried about what the next semester will be like. When I manage to finally change it on my documents, that will be a big relief.

There's a distinct possibility that your professors are erring on the side of caution. Is your chosen name your legal name? If not, then sometimes they are required to stick to the letter of the guidelines that the university gives them, which most likely includes using your legal name to identify you.

Consider changing your legal name, that will move some asses... At the same time, yeah, just steel yourself. Remember that society doesn't have to accept you, but you do. If you accept yourself, then what society thinks doesn't matter, especially when it's something personal like that... Although... Maybe keep a recorder handy and be sure to record their responses to your polite inquiries... You might have yourself a discrimination lawsuit on your hands :3

[Executive Order 9835]

So I know that there are people who do not believe that gender and sex are the same, that the sex you are born with is what you are stuck with. However, I feel like most of the people who are opposed to allowing trans people to receive treatment to change their gender see this as more of a political act or some justification of infiltrating spaces for a specific gender.

I strongly disagree with this statement. These trans people usually have what is called gender dysphoria, where they experience unease with their gender identity to the point where it is debilitating. It's recognized as a mental condition by major scientific and social institutions such as the American Psychological Association, the United Nations, and the United Kingdom's National Health Services. That is not to say that being transgender is a mental illness though. The discomfort that results from gender misalignment is a mental illness and the state of affirming the gender that the trans person identifies as is how this discomfort is solved. Dysphoria is the illness, being transgender is the treatment.

As such, one of the largest concerns of trans people is having adequate access to healthcare. Being able to be properly diagnosed with dysphoria early, increasing access to hormone therapy, and ensuring that puberty blockers can be given to allow transgender children until they are old enough to make the decision to continue gender-affirming therapy are all things trans individuals want to make sure are accessible.

So I guess my point of this post here is to see what you guys think about trans people and how we should deal with their unique issues

[Major-Tom]

I think this might be better suited for the LGBT or Trans discussion threads, respectively. As per the question posed by the OP, I think within reason that it should be covered by one's insurance (in the case of the US), or by healthcare providers, so long as it's not so exorbitantly expensive. I'll concede that I don't really know the cost of gender-reassignment surgery or related treatments, and I would love to hear some input on that from people more knowledgeable than myself.

[Risottia]

These trans people usually have what is called gender dysphoria, where they experience unease with their gender identity to the point where it is debilitating. It's recognized as a mental illness by major scientific and social institutions such as the American Psychological Association, the United Nations, and the United Kingdom's National Health Services.

I think the correct term isn't "illness" but "condition". Anyway yes, gender dysphoria causes suffering and therapy to prevent further suffering looks exactly what public healthcare services are supposed to provide, aren't they?

[Executive Order 9835]

I think this might be better suited for the LGBT or Trans discussion threads, respectively.

Woops, I'm new here. Where can I find these threads?

[Nuroblav]

Woops, I'm new here. Where can I find these threads?

Here you go

[Neutraligon]

Merged 2 threads

[Cekoviu]

So I know that there are people who do not believe that gender and sex are the same, that the sex you are born with is what you are stuck with. However, I feel like most of the people who are opposed to allowing trans people to receive treatment to change their gender see this as more of a political act or some justification of infiltrating spaces for a specific gender.

I strongly disagree with this statement. These trans people usually have what is called gender dysphoria, where they experience unease with their gender identity to the point where it is debilitating. It's recognized as a mental condition by major scientific and social institutions such as the American Psychological Association, the United Nations, and the United Kingdom's National Health Services. That is not to say that being transgender is a mental illness though. The discomfort that results from gender misalignment is a mental illness and the state of affirming the gender that the trans person identifies as is how this discomfort is solved. Dysphoria is the illness, being transgender is the treatment.

As such, one of the largest concerns of trans people is having adequate access to healthcare. Being able to be properly diagnosed with dysphoria early, increasing access to hormone therapy, and ensuring that puberty blockers can be given to allow transgender children until they are old enough to make the decision to continue gender-affirming therapy are all things trans individuals want to make sure are accessible.

So I guess my point of this post here is to see what you guys think about trans people and how we should deal with their unique issues

i'm not sure if i would necessarily call gender dysphoria a mental illness, rather a mental condition resulting from an underlying neurological disorder (for which the correct treatment is obviously transition).

[Executive Order 9835]

I have yet to see anyone cite such an argument and back it up with evidence. Literally no one i've ever seen use this argument has given actual proof. It's a talking point, nothing more. "It's an excuse for creepiness" is the flimsiest argument i've heard.

Exactly. Sexual predators don't care what bathroom they have to go into to violate people. I don't see why one would go through the effort of transitioning for the sole purpose of harassing people they could have harassed anyway.

I have some studies showing that most people are fine with trans people being in bathrooms and that arguments that advocate for bathroom bills are not founded on empirical evidence:

https://link.springer.com/article/10.10 ... 018-0335-z
Analysis of crime & privacy violations as they relate to concerns raised by those who advocate for ‘trans bathroom bills’

Analysis indicates there is no empirical evidence to support these concerns; such crimes & privacy violations are exceedingly rare.

Calls for trans bathroom bills are fearmongering, plain and simple.

https://www.bsa.natcen.ac.uk/latest-rep ... ssues.aspx

Regardless of baseless fear mongering, most people in the UK are fine with transitioned transgenders using the restroom of their gender - "Women tend to be more comfortable with this than men, with 72% of women saying they are “very” or “quite comfortable” with a transgender woman using a female toilet, compared with 64% of men saying they are comfortable with a transgender man using male toilets. Around 1 in 6 (14% of women, and 15% of men) say they are not comfortable with this." (pg 14)

This one excludes the "Neither comfortable nor uncomfortable" answer which was another 14% from the 2017 survey

So I'll be honest, these weren't studies I found myself. They come from a facts sheet for trans rights, I'll link it here:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Le7 ... J0X6g/edit

Aside from studies, even if bathrooms were segregated based on sex and not gender, predatory men could claim to be passing FTM individuals and everyone would have to take their word for it. That's not even accounting for the fact that trans people are far more likely to be harassed than other groups, not the other way around.

[Hediacrana]

For those of you who didn't know yet, transgender Black Marxists are planning to overthrow America. Or so Michele Bachmann says.

[Serrus]

For those of you who didn't know yet, transgender Black Marxists are planning to overthrow America. Or so Michele Bachmann says.

Honestly, even if they were, they would probably do a better job of governing

[Necroghastia]

For those of you who didn't know yet, transgender Black Marxists are planning to overthrow America. Or so Michele Bachmann says.

and i say to myself... what a wonderful world...

[Hediacrana]

For those of you who didn't know yet, transgender Black Marxists are planning to overthrow America. Or so Michele Bachmann says.

and i say to myself... what a wonderful world...

I'm tempted to put that in my sig.

[The Rich Port]

For those of you who didn't know yet, transgender Black Marxists are planning to overthrow America. Or so Michele Bachmann says.

fuk we got made

now we'll never catch that dastardly Q-Anon

[Cordel One]

For those of you who didn't know yet, transgender Black Marxists are planning to overthrow America. Or so Michele Bachmann says.

Honestly, even if they were, they would probably do a better job of governing

By a long shot. I hope they win

[Wink Wonk We Like Stonks]

thread must be revived

thoughts on "political lesbianism" in terfs?

i think it's all one big self-hating facade that's somehow homophobic and, dare i say, h e t e r o p h o b i c , at the same time

[Auzkhia]

thread must be revived

thoughts on "political lesbianism" in terfs?

i think it's all one big self-hating facade that's somehow homophobic and, dare i say, h e t e r o p h o b i c , at the same time

It's based on this idea in 2nd wave radical feminism called separatism, in which women and men are separate species and do not share interests and thus it ties in with their rejection of relationships with men in order to advance their own version of a feminist agenda.

However, I think they are a perversion. Being a lesbian is about loving women, not hating men, though that is very very understandable. I just don't have the desire to date them, and that will still be true even if we smash the patriarchy. While not inherently trans exclusionary, it soon came to be in practice because of who they saw as men and women, and often sowed divisions between homosexual women and bisexual women. Sexuality and Gender do not need to be "pure".

Being heterosexual isn't inherently wrong, it's the patriarchal gender roles that are wrong. Your sexuality is yours, you cannot force it to change, it may evolve, but not because you made it so in the name of radical feminism or Jesus.

[Wink Wonk We Like Stonks]

thread must be revived

thoughts on "political lesbianism" in terfs?

i think it's all one big self-hating facade that's somehow homophobic and, dare i say, h e t e r o p h o b i c , at the same time

It's based on this idea in 2nd wave radical feminism called separatism, in which women and men are separate species and do not share interests and thus it ties in with their rejection of relationships with men in order to advance their own version of a feminist agenda.

However, I think they are a perversion. Being a lesbian is about loving women, not hating men, though that is very very understandable. I just don't have the desire to date them, and that will still be true even if we smash the patriarchy. While not inherently trans exclusionary, it soon came to be in practice because of who they saw as men and women, and often sowed divisions between homosexual women and bisexual women. Sexuality and Gender do not need to be "pure".

Being heterosexual isn't inherently wrong, it's the patriarchal gender roles that are wrong. Your sexuality is yours, you cannot force it to change, it may evolve, but not because you made it so in the name of radical feminism or Jesus.

nice take, do you personally prefer 2nd or 3rd wave feminism and why? not a threadjack, I swear.

[New haven america]

I've managed to get myself into another trans debate on twitter (that seems to be about 10 transphobes vs 1 trans person i.e. me). I was wondering if anybody has any statistics on the occurrence of trans women doing creepy behaviour in women's changing rooms and toilets, such as installing cameras etc. I'm hoping that such incidents are as rare as you've all led me to believe.

Basically a non-occurrence.

Especially since the majority of transwomen are straight. (Or gay pre-transition if that's more helpful for you to understand)