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by Jack Thomas Lang » Wed Jun 17, 2020 3:01 am
by Izandai » Wed Jun 17, 2020 3:45 am
Dumb Ideologies wrote:Izandai wrote:I don't think many people think Rowling is an antisemite. You don't have to be antisemitic to include antisemitic imagery and themes in your work. You just have to be ignorant on the subject, and given the ignorance of Rowling's comments about trans people, that's much much less of a stretch.
Now that people are talking about these sorts of things perhaps you'd think more about how you use goblins as a new author. But I'm not sure how fair it is to rake an author individually over the coals for the presence of staple genre elements in their story that they themselves didn't invent and which weren't massively controversial at the time. We don't like her much because she's had some crap takes on things lately, but the pile-on and chucking everything but the kitchen sink at her comes across as a bit ahistorical and opportunistic.
by Vassenor » Wed Jun 17, 2020 3:58 am
Izandai wrote:Dumb Ideologies wrote:
Now that people are talking about these sorts of things perhaps you'd think more about how you use goblins as a new author. But I'm not sure how fair it is to rake an author individually over the coals for the presence of staple genre elements in their story that they themselves didn't invent and which weren't massively controversial at the time. We don't like her much because she's had some crap takes on things lately, but the pile-on and chucking everything but the kitchen sink at her comes across as a bit ahistorical and opportunistic.
Yeah, while it's definitely a good thing to critically examine the content of the books, I think the people throwing out these "The Harry Potter Books Are Bad, Actually" Hot Takes™ are taking things way too far. Forgive me this idle speculation, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if a significant portion of the people saying such things are just people who didn't like the books and have been annoyed with their cultural prominence eagerly taking advantage of it now being "okay" to hate Harry Potter now that it's come out that their author is a shitty person. The books are good. They aren't "high art" (whatever that means), they've got technical flaws beyond the problematic content, and I'll be surprised if they're still very culturally relevant in a few decades, but they're good. I'll continue to recommend them to anyone who's considering giving them a go (though with the caveat that they not be acquired in any way that gives money back to their author who, as has been previously established, is a shitty person).
by Izandai » Wed Jun 17, 2020 4:03 am
Vassenor wrote:Izandai wrote:Yeah, while it's definitely a good thing to critically examine the content of the books, I think the people throwing out these "The Harry Potter Books Are Bad, Actually" Hot Takes™ are taking things way too far. Forgive me this idle speculation, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if a significant portion of the people saying such things are just people who didn't like the books and have been annoyed with their cultural prominence eagerly taking advantage of it now being "okay" to hate Harry Potter now that it's come out that their author is a shitty person. The books are good. They aren't "high art" (whatever that means), they've got technical flaws beyond the problematic content, and I'll be surprised if they're still very culturally relevant in a few decades, but they're good. I'll continue to recommend them to anyone who's considering giving them a go (though with the caveat that they not be acquired in any way that gives money back to their author who, as has been previously established, is a shitty person).
Read the books as a kid. Enjoyed them at the time. Now I'm looking back and realising "wait, that's actually kind of fucked up once you start thinking about it".
by Centai Mal » Wed Jun 17, 2020 7:47 am
American Pere Housh wrote:Centai Mal wrote:Well, we’re in a thread talking about JK Rowling’s problematic personal actions and how that factors into her writing, and I figured if people wanted a book written by someone who WASN’T problematic, and didn’t have a problematic cast or sketchy undertones, I’d suggest Rick Riordan books. There’s a lot of great books that I’d recommend, but Riordan’s books are both amazing and have diverse characters
Look, Riordan literally wrote the Percy Jackson series so that his son (who has ADHD and dyslexia) could see himself in a story. I loved Percy Jackson as much as I did because it was the first book I ever saw myself in - I have ADHD and learning disabilities. Obviously the book is amazing, I’ve read so many great book series, but that one was always special to me because I got to see myself in the main character. The fact that a few of the characters are LGBTQ throughout somewhere like 20 books between his main series is also nice, because it’s just nice to see yourself in books.
I like Percy Jackson series alot but the Harry Potter series is better written. Just because a book has diversity in it doesn't mean its a good read.
by South Odreria 2 » Wed Jun 17, 2020 7:51 am
Izandai wrote:Vassenor wrote:
Read the books as a kid. Enjoyed them at the time. Now I'm looking back and realising "wait, that's actually kind of fucked up once you start thinking about it".
And that's totally fair! I had a similar reaction when I realized exactly what was going in with Tash and his followers in the Narnia books. But I think that just as it's entirely reasonable for such content to completely ruin one's enjoyment of a work, I think it's also reasonable to be able to enjoy a work in spite of such content, and that doing so isn't the same thing as condoning the content or whatever message one thinks it's presenting.
Valrifell wrote:
Disregard whatever this poster says
by The Emerald Legion » Wed Jun 17, 2020 8:13 am
South Odreria 2 wrote:Izandai wrote:And that's totally fair! I had a similar reaction when I realized exactly what was going in with Tash and his followers in the Narnia books. But I think that just as it's entirely reasonable for such content to completely ruin one's enjoyment of a work, I think it's also reasonable to be able to enjoy a work in spite of such content, and that doing so isn't the same thing as condoning the content or whatever message one thinks it's presenting.
What was going on with tash and his followers?
by Izandai » Wed Jun 17, 2020 8:34 am
by Vassenor » Sat Jun 20, 2020 8:10 am
by Izandai » Sat Jun 20, 2020 8:32 am
by Vassenor » Sat Jun 20, 2020 8:35 am
Izandai wrote:
Those tigers have eaten more people's faces than Carl.
...Okay, maybe not more than Carl. That dude's fucked up.
by Auzkhia » Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:00 am
by Slaughter None » Sat Jun 20, 2020 11:38 am
by Liriena » Sat Jun 20, 2020 11:54 am
I am: A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist An aspiring writer and journalist | Political compass stuff: Economic Left/Right: -8.13 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92 For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism, cynicism ⚧Copy and paste this in your sig if you passed biology and know gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧ |
by Galloism » Sat Jun 20, 2020 11:55 am
Liriena wrote:Where's the article?
by Crockerland » Sat Jun 20, 2020 11:59 am
by Liriena » Sat Jun 20, 2020 12:01 pm
Crockerland wrote:You didn't link an article.
No one ought to need an article to know there are two genders, though.
I am: A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist An aspiring writer and journalist | Political compass stuff: Economic Left/Right: -8.13 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92 For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism, cynicism ⚧Copy and paste this in your sig if you passed biology and know gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧ |
by Mirjt » Sat Jun 20, 2020 12:02 pm
by Crockerland » Sat Jun 20, 2020 12:09 pm
by Mirjt » Sat Jun 20, 2020 12:12 pm
by Liriena » Sat Jun 20, 2020 12:12 pm
I am: A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist An aspiring writer and journalist | Political compass stuff: Economic Left/Right: -8.13 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92 For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism, cynicism ⚧Copy and paste this in your sig if you passed biology and know gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧ |
by Thermodolia » Sat Jun 20, 2020 12:13 pm
Mirjt wrote:Biology, sociology, psychology, etc... says there are 3 human sexes (male, female, and intersex) and that gender is a human social construct that can have as many or as few categories as is socially constructed in a given society (I find the categories cisgender conforming, cisgender non-conforming, transgender, third gender, agender, androgyne, multigender, fluid gender, and non-binary gender, to be useful categories in our current social environment).
by American Pere Housh » Sat Jun 20, 2020 12:14 pm
Mirjt wrote:Biology, sociology, psychology, etc... says there are 3 human sexes (male, female, and intersex) and that gender is a human social construct that can have as many or as few categories as is socially constructed in a given society (I find the categories cisgender conforming, cisgender non-conforming, transgender, third gender, agender, androgyne, multigender, fluid gender, and non-binary gender, to be useful categories in our current social environment).
by Liriena » Sat Jun 20, 2020 12:15 pm
American Pere Housh wrote:Mirjt wrote:Biology, sociology, psychology, etc... says there are 3 human sexes (male, female, and intersex) and that gender is a human social construct that can have as many or as few categories as is socially constructed in a given society (I find the categories cisgender conforming, cisgender non-conforming, transgender, third gender, agender, androgyne, multigender, fluid gender, and non-binary gender, to be useful categories in our current social environment).
I am: A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist An aspiring writer and journalist | Political compass stuff: Economic Left/Right: -8.13 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92 For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism, cynicism ⚧Copy and paste this in your sig if you passed biology and know gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧ |
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