TDT 4: What the $#@! is a "womxn", anyways?

[Nakena]

I feel like a lot of transfemmes are expected to say in regards to their childhoods and past "When I was four years old I tried on my mother's high heels and stole my sister's dresses and knew that I was a female soul in the body of a crossdressing baby" or nothing at all. Even though I literally have done that.

I can feel ya.

My story was sort of like that... at least until my family got so fed up with me trying to act like a girl they forcibly changed therapists because they dared to suggest they should just let me buy some clothes of my own rather than "borrowing" other articles of clothing. After that I think the best way to describe it is that I got shoved so hard into the closet via "discipline" that it became what I'd almost term a dissociative state. I couldn't be "me" without authority figures in my life making it hellish, and I couldn't acknowledge that I was being treated in such a manner without becoming severely depressive. Man, I wonder where my severe anxiety to the point of requiring medication, and incredibly avoidant behavior came from when I was younger...

That stage of my life is pretty well past now though, thankfully.

That sounds horrible.

[Imperial Joseon]

I feel like a lot of transfemmes are expected to say in regards to their childhoods and past "When I was four years old I tried on my mother's high heels and stole my sister's dresses and knew that I was a female soul in the body of a crossdressing baby" or nothing at all. Even though I literally have done that.

I don't totally buy the feminine essence theory of transsexuality. I feel like "born into the wrong social role" is more accurate than "born in the wrong body" for me. Though I think it's not that important to justify why we are transgender, though a lot of people keep asking, and I just am me, I'm not sorry? I transitioned and feel much more happier that in itself shouldn't need a reason why. Maybe some people want to just because it will keep the Cis™ of off our backs, and sadly, the "born in the wrong body" narrative lines up with their own beliefs and preconceptions about gender.

The most accurate description is not "born with the wrong body," but "born with the wrong brain."

So, are you saying you oppose transgender surgeries?

[Cekoviu]

The most accurate description is not "born with the wrong body," but "born with the wrong brain."

So, are you saying you oppose transgender surgeries?

Not at all. For many (myself included), they are the only way to feel at ease with their body.

[Imperial Joseon]

So, are you saying you oppose transgender surgeries?

Not at all. For many (myself included), they are the only way to feel at ease with their body.

What do you mean by "feeling at ease"? I don't know how one feels when one is insecure about one's gender.

[Cekoviu]

Not at all. For many (myself included), they are the only way to feel at ease with their body.

What do you mean by "feeling at ease"? I don't know how one feels when one is insecure about one's gender.

It's a very difficult feeling to describe to someone who's never had body dysmorphia or anything somewhat resembling gender dysphoria. Gender dysphoria causes you to feel like a spectator in your own life, makes it difficult/impossible to recognize yourself in the mirror, and causes emotional turmoil and self-hatred. Surgeries and hormone therapy can resolve this.

[Imperial Joseon]

What do you mean by "feeling at ease"? I don't know how one feels when one is insecure about one's gender.

It's a very difficult feeling to describe to someone who's never had body dysmorphia or anything somewhat resembling gender dysphoria. Gender dysphoria causes you to feel like a spectator in your own life, makes it difficult/impossible to recognize yourself in the mirror, and causes emotional turmoil and self-hatred. Surgeries and hormone therapy can resolve this.

So more like depression, I see.

[Cekoviu]

It's a very difficult feeling to describe to someone who's never had body dysmorphia or anything somewhat resembling gender dysphoria. Gender dysphoria causes you to feel like a spectator in your own life, makes it difficult/impossible to recognize yourself in the mirror, and causes emotional turmoil and self-hatred. Surgeries and hormone therapy can resolve this.

So more like depression, I see.

Kind of, but the solution is very different.

[Imperial Joseon]

So more like depression, I see.

Kind of, but the solution is very different.

How does the surgical procedure work? Can only males change to females, or can females change to males?

[Cekoviu]

Kind of, but the solution is very different.

How does the surgical procedure work? Can only males change to females, or can females change to males?

There are a variety of surgical procedures. I think you're thinking of sexual reassignment surgery, which is known as either a vaginoplasty (for a person who previously had a penis) or a phalloplasty (the reverse). In a vaginoplasty, there are several parts that must be performed: partial orchiectomy, reuse of penile tissue to produce a vaginal cavity, construction of a clitoris and labia from the head and scrotum respectively, and repositioning the urethra. I've got no idea how a phalloplasty works, but I imagine it's basically the reverse. The former typically costs about $20k in the US and the latter can run a person upwards of $100k.

There are other transgender surgeries, which are not as huge of changes. Facial feminization surgeries alter some part of a woman's face to make it look more feminine. Breast augmentation/removal surgeries may be desired, especially breast removal for transgender men who underwent puberty (trans women will normally grow breasts during hormone therapy, so breast augmentation is not needed as much). Vocal feminization surgery alters the vocal cords to make them sound more feminine. Male forms of FFS and VFS aren't really needed because trans men get more masculine faces and voices when taking testosterone, a common step prior to any surgical intervention.

[Imperial Joseon]

How does the surgical procedure work? Can only males change to females, or can females change to males?

There are a variety of surgical procedures. I think you're thinking of sexual reassignment surgery, which is known as either a vaginoplasty (for a person who previously had a penis) or a phalloplasty (the reverse). In a vaginoplasty, there are several parts that must be performed: partial orchiectomy, reuse of penile tissue to produce a vaginal cavity, construction of a clitoris and labia from the head and scrotum respectively, and repositioning the urethra. I've got no idea how a phalloplasty works, but I imagine it's basically the reverse. The former typically costs about $20k in the US and the latter can run a person upwards of $100k.

There are other transgender surgeries, which are not as huge of changes. Facial feminization surgeries alter some part of a woman's face to make it look more feminine. Breast augmentation/removal surgeries may be desired, especially breast removal for transgender men who underwent puberty (trans women will normally grow breasts during hormone therapy, so breast augmentation is not needed as much). Vocal feminization surgery alters the vocal cords to make them sound more feminine. Male forms of FFS and VFS aren't really needed because trans men get more masculine faces and voices when taking testosterone, a common step prior to any surgical intervention.

Pretty complicated. I'm enlightened by the fact that women can become men. I thought that was impossible, because I didn't know how a penis can be attached to women. (No mockery nor offense).

[Cekoviu]

There are a variety of surgical procedures. I think you're thinking of sexual reassignment surgery, which is known as either a vaginoplasty (for a person who previously had a penis) or a phalloplasty (the reverse). In a vaginoplasty, there are several parts that must be performed: partial orchiectomy, reuse of penile tissue to produce a vaginal cavity, construction of a clitoris and labia from the head and scrotum respectively, and repositioning the urethra. I've got no idea how a phalloplasty works, but I imagine it's basically the reverse. The former typically costs about $20k in the US and the latter can run a person upwards of $100k.

There are other transgender surgeries, which are not as huge of changes. Facial feminization surgeries alter some part of a woman's face to make it look more feminine. Breast augmentation/removal surgeries may be desired, especially breast removal for transgender men who underwent puberty (trans women will normally grow breasts during hormone therapy, so breast augmentation is not needed as much). Vocal feminization surgery alters the vocal cords to make them sound more feminine. Male forms of FFS and VFS aren't really needed because trans men get more masculine faces and voices when taking testosterone, a common step prior to any surgical intervention.

Pretty complicated. I'm enlightened by the fact that women can become men. I thought that was impossible, because I didn't know how a penis can be attached to women. (No mockery nor offense).

Phalloplasty definitely isn't as effective or as mature a surgery as vaginoplasty. The latter often produces a vagina externally indistinguishable from that of a cis woman apart from the lack of self-lubrication, but phalloplasties vary quite a bit in results despite being much more expensive.

[North Arkana]

Pretty complicated. I'm enlightened by the fact that women can become men. I thought that was impossible, because I didn't know how a penis can be attached to women. (No mockery nor offense).

Phalloplasty definitely isn't as effective or as mature a surgery as vaginoplasty. The latter often produces a vagina externally indistinguishable from that of a cis woman apart from the lack of self-lubrication, but phalloplasties vary quite a bit in results despite being much more expensive.

Lack of lubrication is only if you opt for the penile option. The other, far less common, uses a section of the lower intestines, which thanks to being an internal mucous membrane does self-lubricate, but has significantly reduced sensation compared to a penile vaginoplasty. Another uses part of abdominal lining, but is apparently even less common.

[Imperial Joseon]

Phalloplasty definitely isn't as effective or as mature a surgery as vaginoplasty. The latter often produces a vagina externally indistinguishable from that of a cis woman apart from the lack of self-lubrication, but phalloplasties vary quite a bit in results despite being much more expensive.

And the surgeries are usually done in Thailand only?

[Khasinkonia]

Phalloplasty definitely isn't as effective or as mature a surgery as vaginoplasty. The latter often produces a vagina externally indistinguishable from that of a cis woman apart from the lack of self-lubrication, but phalloplasties vary quite a bit in results despite being much more expensive.

Lack of lubrication is only if you opt for the penile option. The other, far less common, uses a section of the lower intestines, which thanks to being an internal mucous membrane does self-lubricate, but has significantly reduced sensation compared to a penile vaginoplasty. Another uses part of abdominal lining, but is apparently even less common.

I feel like I read somewhere that folks use intestinal tissue to supplement the penile tissue to provide more depth. I wonder if folks using a mixture of the methods has been tried for the purposes of self-lubrication.

[Cekoviu]

Phalloplasty definitely isn't as effective or as mature a surgery as vaginoplasty. The latter often produces a vagina externally indistinguishable from that of a cis woman apart from the lack of self-lubrication, but phalloplasties vary quite a bit in results despite being much more expensive.

Lack of lubrication is only if you opt for the penile option. The other, far less common, uses a section of the lower intestines, which thanks to being an internal mucous membrane does self-lubricate, but has significantly reduced sensation compared to a penile vaginoplasty. Another uses part of abdominal lining, but is apparently even less common.

I know, I just didn't mention it because it's not common.

Phalloplasty definitely isn't as effective or as mature a surgery as vaginoplasty. The latter often produces a vagina externally indistinguishable from that of a cis woman apart from the lack of self-lubrication, but phalloplasties vary quite a bit in results despite being much more expensive.

And the surgeries are usually done in Thailand only?

No, but Thailand is a place where some people go to do them, as there are some good transsexual surgeons there.

[Imperial Joseon]

No, but Thailand is a place where some people go to do them, as there are some good transsexual surgeons there.

I see, I see. Good piece of information to know.

[Luminesa]

The most accurate description is not "born with the wrong body," but "born with the wrong brain."

So, are you saying you oppose transgender surgeries?

Cek is saying that studies on trans people seem to suggest that transgenderism seems to come from how some things might be wired in a person's brain. This is still something that's not very well-understood, but I feel Cek is referencing that hypothesis.

[Luminesa]

I feel like a lot of transfemmes are expected to say in regards to their childhoods and past "When I was four years old I tried on my mother's high heels and stole my sister's dresses and knew that I was a female soul in the body of a crossdressing baby" or nothing at all. Even though I literally have done that.

I don't totally buy the feminine essence theory of transsexuality. I feel like "born into the wrong social role" is more accurate than "born in the wrong body" for me. Though I think it's not that important to justify why we are transgender, though a lot of people keep asking, and I just am me, I'm not sorry? I transitioned and feel much more happier that in itself shouldn't need a reason why. Maybe some people want to just because it will keep the Cis™ of off our backs, and sadly, the "born in the wrong body" narrative lines up with their own beliefs and preconceptions about gender.

But some people do say they're born into the wrong body, and what then? The difficulty of understanding this condition is that it seems there's a spectrum of symptoms that come with being transgender, and even if you don't feel you have to justify it, scientists have to be able to understand it to further studies on it, and that requires studying the pathology of being trans. For many others who do feel they were "born in the wrong body", developing studies could be helpful to understanding their bodies some 10, 20 years down the road, because it's not just a "social" issue for them, but a "physical" issue.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

I feel like a lot of transfemmes are expected to say in regards to their childhoods and past "When I was four years old I tried on my mother's high heels and stole my sister's dresses and knew that I was a female soul in the body of a crossdressing baby" or nothing at all. Even though I literally have done that.

I don't totally buy the feminine essence theory of transsexuality. I feel like "born into the wrong social role" is more accurate than "born in the wrong body" for me. Though I think it's not that important to justify why we are transgender, though a lot of people keep asking, and I just am me, I'm not sorry? I transitioned and feel much more happier that in itself shouldn't need a reason why. Maybe some people want to just because it will keep the Cis™ of off our backs, and sadly, the "born in the wrong body" narrative lines up with their own beliefs and preconceptions about gender.

But some people do say they're born into the wrong body, and what then? The difficulty of understanding this condition is that it seems there's a spectrum of symptoms that come with being transgender, and even if you don't feel you have to justify it, scientists have to be able to understand it to further studies on it, and that requires studying the pathology of being trans. For many others who do feel they were "born in the wrong body", developing studies could be helpful to understanding their bodies some 10, 20 years down the road, because it's not just a "social" issue for them, but a "physical" issue.

The way I try to understand it is this- imagine a nightmare: I wake up in the wrong body. (It’s of course far more complex than that) I’m a man, but I’m trapped in a female body (or vice versa). I would feel like I’m in the wrong body, definitely. The brain feels that incongruence and it’s frightening and deeply uncomfortable. I should have the anatomy of a man. It’s probably nightmarish to live day in and day out like that.

Or rather, that’s the way I can try to understand, to a very very limited extent, how a trans person probably feels. I could be wrong in said approach.

[Auzkhia]

I feel like a lot of transfemmes are expected to say in regards to their childhoods and past "When I was four years old I tried on my mother's high heels and stole my sister's dresses and knew that I was a female soul in the body of a crossdressing baby" or nothing at all. Even though I literally have done that.

I don't totally buy the feminine essence theory of transsexuality. I feel like "born into the wrong social role" is more accurate than "born in the wrong body" for me. Though I think it's not that important to justify why we are transgender, though a lot of people keep asking, and I just am me, I'm not sorry? I transitioned and feel much more happier that in itself shouldn't need a reason why. Maybe some people want to just because it will keep the Cis™ of off our backs, and sadly, the "born in the wrong body" narrative lines up with their own beliefs and preconceptions about gender.

But some people do say they're born into the wrong body, and what then? The difficulty of understanding this condition is that it seems there's a spectrum of symptoms that come with being transgender, and even if you don't feel you have to justify it, scientists have to be able to understand it to further studies on it, and that requires studying the pathology of being trans. For many others who do feel they were "born in the wrong body", developing studies could be helpful to understanding their bodies some 10, 20 years down the road, because it's not just a "social" issue for them, but a "physical" issue.

I didn't say stop saying that, I said, "hey this narrative that everyone knows doesn't apply to everyone!"

Gender is very complex and therefore people will have many differing narratives.

Not at all. For many (myself included), they are the only way to feel at ease with their body.

What do you mean by "feeling at ease"? I don't know how one feels when one is insecure about one's gender.

People transition, especially when it's medical procedures like hormone therapy, for example, to alleviate gender dysphoria, and/or to increase gender euphoria by changing their body to be inline with their target gender.

How does the surgical procedure work? Can only males change to females, or can females change to males?

There are a variety of surgical procedures. I think you're thinking of sexual reassignment surgery, which is known as either a vaginoplasty (for a person who previously had a penis) or a phalloplasty (the reverse). In a vaginoplasty, there are several parts that must be performed: partial orchiectomy, reuse of penile tissue to produce a vaginal cavity, construction of a clitoris and labia from the head and scrotum respectively, and repositioning the urethra. I've got no idea how a phalloplasty works, but I imagine it's basically the reverse. The former typically costs about $20k in the US and the latter can run a person upwards of $100k.

There are other transgender surgeries, which are not as huge of changes. Facial feminization surgeries alter some part of a woman's face to make it look more feminine. Breast augmentation/removal surgeries may be desired, especially breast removal for transgender men who underwent puberty (trans women will normally grow breasts during hormone therapy, so breast augmentation is not needed as much). Vocal feminization surgery alters the vocal cords to make them sound more feminine. Male forms of FFS and VFS aren't really needed because trans men get more masculine faces and voices when taking testosterone, a common step prior to any surgical intervention.

Pretty much this. Though sometimes non-binary people may get surgeries too. Some non-binary people may get FTM top surgery, a double mastectomy, but not go on testosterone for example.

However, I'd like to go on a tangent on the differences that transmasculine and transfeminine people may have with physical transition. Men can get away with more than women can in terms of looks. Men are "allowed" to be ugly, or at least they don't have to worry about beauty as much since women get pressured into always being as conventionally beautiful as they can.

Even minor stuff like having dysphoria over body hair, where does this idea that women have no leg hair come from? Gender Dysphoria does not exist in a vacuum. Something like FFS and even BA/top surgery aren't totally unique to the trans experience as cis women do surgeries like those too, plastic surgery to look a certain way, and even my own other got breast augmentation, and she told me this when I expressed dysphoria over my lack of prominent breasts and wondered if I too needed that. I still think about ffs but that's probably just me trying to assimilate into standards I heavily criticize. However, body autonomy is a paramount right and any person should be able to have the body they feel the most comfortable in.

Technically FMS is a thing, though it's usually incels that are talking about it.

Pretty complicated. I'm enlightened by the fact that women can become men. I thought that was impossible, because I didn't know how a penis can be attached to women. (No mockery nor offense).

Phalloplasty definitely isn't as effective or as mature a surgery as vaginoplasty. The latter often produces a vagina externally indistinguishable from that of a cis woman apart from the lack of self-lubrication, but phalloplasties vary quite a bit in results despite being much more expensive.

FTM bottom surgery requires a skin graft, making the surgery much more complex, though a vaginoplasty usually doesn't, it can happen, especially if one opts to keep the penis.

[Ifreann]

https://twitter.com/TheChrisMosier/stat ... 5562085376

The Chris Mosier
@TheChrisMosier

ARIZONA HB2706 is being heard today - the bill would allow anyone to dispute if a girl is "really a girl" on any sports team in the state & then subject that student to an examination of their internal & external reproductive anatomy to decide if they can play.

#AZleg

Sexually assaulting children to own the transes.

[Auzkhia]

https://twitter.com/TheChrisMosier/status/1227955845562085376

The Chris Mosier
@TheChrisMosier

ARIZONA HB2706 is being heard today - the bill would allow anyone to dispute if a girl is "really a girl" on any sports team in the state & then subject that student to an examination of their internal & external reproductive anatomy to decide if they can play.

#AZleg

Sexually assaulting children to own the transes.

Won't someone think of the children!!

I mean, that's what they say to us.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

https://twitter.com/TheChrisMosier/status/1227955845562085376

The Chris Mosier
@TheChrisMosier

ARIZONA HB2706 is being heard today - the bill would allow anyone to dispute if a girl is "really a girl" on any sports team in the state & then subject that student to an examination of their internal & external reproductive anatomy to decide if they can play.

#AZleg

Sexually assaulting children to own the transes.

Reading that made me cringe a lot.

[Ifreann]

https://twitter.com/TheChrisMosier/status/1227955845562085376

The Chris Mosier
@TheChrisMosier

ARIZONA HB2706 is being heard today - the bill would allow anyone to dispute if a girl is "really a girl" on any sports team in the state & then subject that student to an examination of their internal & external reproductive anatomy to decide if they can play.

#AZleg

Sexually assaulting children to own the transes.

Reading that made me cringe a lot.

Arizona needs help, there is clearly something very wrong with them.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Reading that made me cringe a lot.

Arizona needs help, there is clearly something very wrong with them.

Particularly if they’re thinking about subjecting kids to this. Super cringy.