TDT 4: What the $#@! is a "womxn", anyways?

[Hanafuridake]

Imagine getting Hufflepuff-gendered. I think I'd leave, wouldn't you?

At least you aren't in Slytherin...

Imagine not being in Slytherin.

Snekgang4life.

[Cekoviu]

Every time I've ever taken a Hogwarts sorting quiz, I've gotten Hufflepuff.

In times long past my result tended to be Ravenclaw but now I always get Slytherin. This, I think, reflects the natural cycle of growth from naive nerdy intellectualism to the righteous desire to purge society of the impure.

Are you sure your house shouldn't be Bummergnarl?

In other news my partner's surgery is tomorrow and I'm most definitely not panicking about everything being okay and my dubious capabilities when it comes to looking after someone.

We're all just improvising. You'll figure it out.

[Hanafuridake]

Has something puzzled you?

Look, as a trans Christian, and someone who has pulled very few punches with Therm lately, and someone who has gotten into many, many fights with various people on this forum about God being ok with LGBT+ people, and someone who is quite blunt that anyone who is offended at the suggestion that Jesus was trans is inherently transphobic, I'll be the first to agree that yeah, there's no basis for your claim. There is plenty of biblical evidence that directly contradicts the "Jesus was trans" narrative.

If Jesus was transgender, how do you explain the holy prepuce?

Checkmate trans thread.

[Cekoviu]

Look, as a trans Christian, and someone who has pulled very few punches with Therm lately, and someone who has gotten into many, many fights with various people on this forum about God being ok with LGBT+ people, and someone who is quite blunt that anyone who is offended at the suggestion that Jesus was trans is inherently transphobic, I'll be the first to agree that yeah, there's no basis for your claim. There is plenty of biblical evidence that directly contradicts the "Jesus was trans" narrative.

If Jesus was transgender, how do you explain the holy prepuce?

Checkmate trans thread.

He grew a dick.
It's no less implausible than the rest of Christian doctrine.

[Ifreann]

If Jesus was transgender, how do you explain the holy prepuce?

Checkmate trans thread.

He grew a dick.
It's no less implausible than the rest of Christian doctrine.

Dude could heal the sick and revive the dead, growing himself a divine wing-wong was probably easy.

[Grenartia]

Because if there's more than two possibilities, it isn't a binary.

Here are the possibilities:
-Male
-Female

So it's a binary.

Intersex people are not a third possibility, any more than bald people, or black people, or tall people. Like all other groups, intersex people are born either male or female.

Then what category of human variation is intersex, if not biological sex?

Checkmate, binarists.

Look, as a trans Christian, and someone who has pulled very few punches with Therm lately, and someone who has gotten into many, many fights with various people on this forum about God being ok with LGBT+ people, and someone who is quite blunt that anyone who is offended at the suggestion that Jesus was trans is inherently transphobic, I'll be the first to agree that yeah, there's no basis for your claim. There is plenty of biblical evidence that directly contradicts the "Jesus was trans" narrative.

Um... it was a joke... I don't actually believe that.

Sorry. I couldn't distinguish it from honest belief.

Look, as a trans Christian, and someone who has pulled very few punches with Therm lately, and someone who has gotten into many, many fights with various people on this forum about God being ok with LGBT+ people, and someone who is quite blunt that anyone who is offended at the suggestion that Jesus was trans is inherently transphobic, I'll be the first to agree that yeah, there's no basis for your claim. There is plenty of biblical evidence that directly contradicts the "Jesus was trans" narrative.

If Jesus was transgender, how do you explain the holy prepuce?

Checkmate trans thread.

Actually, that was indirectly one of the things I was going to cite. He had a circumcision.

He grew a dick.
It's no less implausible than the rest of Christian doctrine.

Dude could heal the sick and revive the dead, growing himself a divine wing-wong was probably easy.

I mean, I guess its possible a deity in the form of an infant could magically endicken himself. But at that point, you start getting into all kinds of transubstantiation-level sophistry. Like, Jesus was a trans boy but outwardly appeared by all analysis to be a cis boy, even in terms of phenotype. Which again, is on the same level as "you eat the cracker and drink the wine, and it magically turns into the actual flesh and blood of Christ, but there's no way to actually tell its his literal flesh and blood".

Which, I guess we can go with if we have no problem with transubstantiation.

[Torrocca]

behold, a graph showing exactly how binary sex is

clearly male and female are the only acceptable options, everything else is just utter fantasy not at all backed by scientific studies of any sort such as those cited at the bottom of this graph

[Des-Bal]

behold, a graph showing exactly how binary sex is

clearly male and female are the only acceptable options, everything else is just utter fantasy not at all backed by scientific studies of any sort such as those cited at the bottom of this graph

Who in your mind are you dunking on? The ends of the continuum presented are typicality. What you're suggesting by presenting that as evidence of more than two sexes is that nothing is atypical, that when something fails to represent a totally typical subject it is appropriate and even necessary to treat it as an entirely separate thing. This is an interesting train of thought because humans are not typically intersex, following your train of logic either intersex people do fit within the binary or they are not human.

[Proctopeo]

Here are the possibilities:
-Male
-Female

So it's a binary.

Intersex people are not a third possibility, any more than bald people, or black people, or tall people. Like all other groups, intersex people are born either male or female.

Then what category of human variation is intersex, if not biological sex?

The answer is really simple. Chromosomal and physical abnormalities.

[Cekoviu]

behold, a graph showing exactly how binary sex is

clearly male and female are the only acceptable options, everything else is just utter fantasy not at all backed by scientific studies of any sort such as those cited at the bottom of this graph

No specific studies are cited anywhere there.

[Cappuccina]

behold, a graph showing exactly how binary sex is

clearly male and female are the only acceptable options, everything else is just utter fantasy not at all backed by scientific studies of any sort such as those cited at the bottom of this graph

So you posit that every chromosomal and hormone disorder is a sex? You do know how ridiculous that is, right?

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Look, as a trans Christian, and someone who has pulled very few punches with Therm lately, and someone who has gotten into many, many fights with various people on this forum about God being ok with LGBT+ people, and someone who is quite blunt that anyone who is offended at the suggestion that Jesus was trans is inherently transphobic, I'll be the first to agree that yeah, there's no basis for your claim. There is plenty of biblical evidence that directly contradicts the "Jesus was trans" narrative.

If Jesus was transgender, how do you explain the holy prepuce?

Checkmate trans thread.

Someone’s been reading medieval legends, I see.

[Seangoli]

behold, a graph showing exactly how binary sex is

clearly male and female are the only acceptable options, everything else is just utter fantasy not at all backed by scientific studies of any sort such as those cited at the bottom of this graph

So you posit that every chromosomal and hormone disorder is a sex? You do know how ridiculous that is, right?

More accurately, it's that biological sexual differentiation is a hell of a lot more complicated than is being commonly postulated. While the broad trend is that there are two sexes, the actual reality is that this hardly describes the range of variation that exists.

To bring this around to trans individuals, there has been some evidence to indicate that the brains of trans individuals often have early developmental traits more closely aligned with their preferred gender than the typical gender for their sex. This likely arises to the exceedingly complex relationship between hormones and development. A bit more estrogen at some points and a bit less testosterone at others can irrevocably alter the brain of a chromosomal male to to be similar to what you expect Inna chromosomal female.

Have you ever stopped to wonder how the different chromosomes determine sex? A very large part of this is due to these chromosomes affecting which hormones are produced or suppressed. Some weird hiccups can cause some very different things to occur, including a chromosomal male having a brain that is biologically female. Which is quite likely where transgenderism arises from.

Truth is, there are some slight (but meaningful) differences in the way that male/female brains are structured, which in turn can end up being expressed in people of the opposite sex.

There is more to the differences between the sexes than genitals. And some of those differences seem to appear in trans individuals, is what I am getting at.

As for intersex, the point is that we can't even properly label them as biological makes or females. They simply don't fit the boxes for either.

[Cappuccina]

So you posit that every chromosomal and hormone disorder is a sex? You do know how ridiculous that is, right?

More accurately, it's that biological sexual differentiation is a hell of a lot more complicated than is being commonly postulated. While the broad trend is that there are two sexes, the actual reality is that this hardly describes the range of variation that exists.

To bring this around to trans individuals, there has been some evidence to indicate that the brains of trans individuals often have early developmental traits more closely aligned with their preferred gender than the typical gender for their sex. This likely arises to the exceedingly complex relationship between hormones and development. A bit more estrogen at some points and a bit less testosterone at others can irrevocably alter the brain of a chromosomal male to to be similar to what you expect Inna chromosomal female.

Have you ever stopped to wonder how the different chromosomes determine sex? A very large part of this is due to these chromosomes affecting which hormones are produced or suppressed. Some weird hiccups can cause some very different things to occur, including a chromosomal male having a brain that is biologically female. Which is quite likely where transgenderism arises from.

Truth is, there are some slight (but meaningful) differences in the way that male/female brains are structured, which in turn can end up being expressed in people of the opposite sex.

There is more to the differences between the sexes than genitals. And some of those differences seem to appear in trans individuals, is what I am getting at.

As for intersex, the point is that we can't even properly label them as biological makes or females. They simply don't fit the boxes for either.

I'm trans, so the lesson on transgenderism, is unnecessary.

Intersex people are simply people with chromosomal errors, that doesn't make them their own extra-binary sexes.

[Necroghastia]

More accurately, it's that biological sexual differentiation is a hell of a lot more complicated than is being commonly postulated. While the broad trend is that there are two sexes, the actual reality is that this hardly describes the range of variation that exists.

To bring this around to trans individuals, there has been some evidence to indicate that the brains of trans individuals often have early developmental traits more closely aligned with their preferred gender than the typical gender for their sex. This likely arises to the exceedingly complex relationship between hormones and development. A bit more estrogen at some points and a bit less testosterone at others can irrevocably alter the brain of a chromosomal male to to be similar to what you expect Inna chromosomal female.

Have you ever stopped to wonder how the different chromosomes determine sex? A very large part of this is due to these chromosomes affecting which hormones are produced or suppressed. Some weird hiccups can cause some very different things to occur, including a chromosomal male having a brain that is biologically female. Which is quite likely where transgenderism arises from.

Truth is, there are some slight (but meaningful) differences in the way that male/female brains are structured, which in turn can end up being expressed in people of the opposite sex.

There is more to the differences between the sexes than genitals. And some of those differences seem to appear in trans individuals, is what I am getting at.

As for intersex, the point is that we can't even properly label them as biological makes or females. They simply don't fit the boxes for either.

I'm trans, so the lesson on transgenderism, is unnecessary.

Intersex people are simply people with chromosomal errors, that doesn't make them their own extra-binary sexes.

Why not? What makes something a "chromosomal error" and not a sex unto itself?

[Proctopeo]

I'm trans, so the lesson on transgenderism, is unnecessary.

Intersex people are simply people with chromosomal errors, that doesn't make them their own extra-binary sexes.

Why not? What makes something a "chromosomal error" and not a sex unto itself?

When it's a chromosomal error.

Why would someone whose sex chromosomes are XYY be considered a different sex than someone whose are XY, or XXY? The Y chromosome is the sex-determining chromosome, by its presence or absence.

[Auze]

I'm trans, so the lesson on transgenderism, is unnecessary.

Intersex people are simply people with chromosomal errors, that doesn't make them their own extra-binary sexes.

Why not? What makes something a "chromosomal error" and not a sex unto itself?

Simple. Sex is based on what gametes are produced, so here’s a guide:

If it produces a gamete in the form of an egg cell exclusively (and depending on species, is XX or ZW), then it is female

If it produces a gamete in the form of a sperm cell exclusively and (depending on species) is XY or ZZ, then it is male.

If it produces both gametes at once, then it is a true hermaphrodite (such as a snail or worm).

If it reproduces in some other manner exclusively asexually, then it by definition does not have a sex.

If it does not produce gametes at all and has no method of reproduction, then it is sterile and a dead-end.

The intersex people you are referring to, those with chromosome combinations that are such as XYY: they are all in the last category, as they do not produce zygotes of any type (which is why referring to them as hermaphrodites is a misnomer). Being that this is not a sex (as there are no reproductive functions), the only sexes that exist in humans are male and female.

[Cekoviu]

Why not? What makes something a "chromosomal error" and not a sex unto itself?

Simple. Sex is based on what zygotes are produced, so here’s a guide:

If it produces an “egg zygote” exclusively (and depending on species, is XX or ZW), then it is female

If it produces a “sperm zygote” exclusively and (depending on species) is XY or ZZ, then it is male.

ZW/ZZ and XX/XY are not the only options lol

[Grenartia]

Simple. Sex is based on what zygotes are produced, so here’s a guide:

If it produces an “egg zygote” exclusively (and depending on species, is XX or ZW), then it is female

If it produces a “sperm zygote” exclusively and (depending on species) is XY or ZZ, then it is male.

ZW/ZZ and XX/XY are not the only options lol

Don't mind me. I'm just gonna sit down and watch the actual biologist decimate the Gender Understanders^TM.

[Neutraligon]

Simple. Sex is based on what zygotes are produced, so here’s a guide:

If it produces an “egg zygote” exclusively (and depending on species, is XX or ZW), then it is female

If it produces a “sperm zygote” exclusively and (depending on species) is XY or ZZ, then it is male.

ZW/ZZ and XX/XY are not the only options lol

Add to that what if they are unable to produce zygotes. That would mean that there is at least a third sex. Also, what of those who no longer produce the egg are they still female? Based on the above definition, which requires current production of egg/sperm, women who have gone through menopause are no longer female.

[Ifreann]

behold, a graph showing exactly how binary sex is

clearly male and female are the only acceptable options, everything else is just utter fantasy not at all backed by scientific studies of any sort such as those cited at the bottom of this graph

It's almost like we're weird machines made of meat that only work by accident so it's to be expected that we can't be divided into neat categories.

[Tarsonis]

ZW/ZZ and XX/XY are not the only options lol

Don't mind me. I'm just gonna sit down and watch the actual biologist decimate the Gender Understanders^TM.

Its been a minute since I took bio 101, but isn't the proper term here gamete? Not zygote?

[Cekoviu]

Don't mind me. I'm just gonna sit down and watch the actual biologist decimate the Gender Understanders^TM.

Its been a minute since I took bio 101, but isn't the proper term here gamete? Not zygote?

Zygotes are diploid and contain genetic information from two gametes, and gametes are haploid with information from one parent (they combine to form a zygote). Sperm and eggs are gametes.
I ignored that because I figured it was just a slip of the tongue, but yeah, a "sperm/egg zygote" is not a thing.

[Crockerland]

behold, a graph showing exactly how binary sex is

clearly male and female are the only acceptable options, everything else is just utter fantasy not at all backed by scientific studies of any sort such as those cited at the bottom of this graph

No specific studies are cited anywhere there.

Because scientific studies would acknowledge that, for example, Persistent Mullerian duct syndrome is " a disorder of sexual development that affects males,", or Turner Syndrome "occurs in approximately one out of every 2,000-4,000 female live births," which would be cataclysmic for the narrative that every person with even the slightest atypicality in chromosomal or genital development is some sort of new sex.

[Auze]

Its been a minute since I took bio 101, but isn't the proper term here gamete? Not zygote?

Zygotes are diploid and contain genetic information from two gametes, and gametes are haploid with information from one parent (they combine to form a zygote). Sperm and eggs are gametes.
I ignored that because I figured it was just a slip of the tongue, but yeah, a "sperm/egg zygote" is not a thing.

I misremembered, and accidentally mixed up the two. I apologize to all, especially my biology teacher.

Edit: in my defense, I was out sick that day in biology class