TDT 4: What the $#@! is a "womxn", anyways?

[Saciu]

He wasn't named Josh as a child. He adopted it once he started transitioning. The Bible never deadnames or misgenders him, thankfully.

Excuse me what?!

Has something puzzled you?

[Saciu]

There has been a lot of muddying of the waters with even groups like pedophiles and fetishists trying to grift themselves into the classification, so here's a comprehensive list - the LGBT/LGBTI/LGBTIA umbrella (there is no "Q", it's an offensive slur) encompasses:
-Anyone who is a sexual orientation other than straight (gay, bi, or asexual),
-Anyone who does not identify with the gender they were born with,
-Anyone who is born with an intersex condition.

And also, sometimes anyone who is "Gender Nonconforming" is included (LGBTIAGNC) which includes things like straight cisgender crossdressers.

I'm queer. It's been reclaimed, and I use it and find it useful since it's easier to say that than just explaining my gender and sexuality with a few run on sentences.

Not entirely reclaimed, and it literally means strange, so it's debatable whether it should be reclaimed.

[Crockerland]

Most Intersex people are similar enough to one sex or the other to the point that the difference is academic.

What bathroom should a person with an external penis and testes but an internal uterus go into?

So, someone with Persistent Mullerian duct syndrome? They would go to the male bathroom, since that is an intersex condition which affects males.

[Page]

What bathroom should a person with an external penis and testes but an internal uterus go into?

So, someone with Persistent Mullerian duct syndrome? They would go to the male bathroom, since that is an intersex condition which affects males.

The question was rhetorical as it could be posed hundreds of times, each with a different type of intersex.

[Crockerland]

So, someone with Persistent Mullerian duct syndrome? They would go to the male bathroom, since that is an intersex condition which affects males.

The question was rhetorical as it could be posed hundreds of times, each with a different type of intersex.

And each different type of intersex could very easily be sorted into either male or female.

[Page]

The question was rhetorical as it could be posed hundreds of times, each with a different type of intersex.

And each different type of intersex could very easily be sorted into either male or female.

And who does the sorting?

[Grenartia]

Trans lesbians calling ourselves transbians is an organic evolution along linguistic, cultural, and social trends, and is not "forcibly changing language". Take your L.

No it’s not. You can’t claim that there is a cultural or linguistic trend for a word that is only really found in the bowels of Tumblr.

I've never been on Tumblr. If your assertion were true, then I could not be using it. Yet, I am, therefore, your assertion is false. Instead, if you'd bother to step outside your transphobic bubble, you'd learn that the word sees a decent amount of use in trans-centric spaces. Therefore, it is an organic cultural and linguistic evolution. QED.

Also aren’t you supposedly androgynous and therefore not Trans because trans implies that you are transitioning?

What the fuck does that even mean? Who the fuck told you "androgynous" means "not trans"? You're like a kindergartner trying to talk about algebra to a math professor, and consistently getting things wrong. You're so out of your league that the phrase "Dunning-Kruger" is an understatement.

Also, who the fuck told you, allegedly on my behalf, that I'm "not transitioning"? Not that its any of your fucking business, but I have every intention of transitioning, and have made absolutely no statements to anyone to the contrary. I don't know from whose ass you pulled that bullshit from, but you certainly didn't get it from me.

Said the person who is unironically triggered by a pansexual transbian.

No I’m not triggered I just hate when people butcher language to the point that it has no meaning. Words mean things. You can’t claim to be pansexual while also claiming to be transbian. You are either one or the other. Not both. It’s fine if you want to be a transbian, but you can’t claim to be pansexual at the same time because it makes no fucking sense.

You certainly sound triggered from where I stand.

I just picked up the straw that fell out of your clothes.

I am not the one creating strawmen. Which is where the term straw comes from, strawmen is the act of creating a false argument and misconstruing an argument so that one can argue against it.

I’m not the one who is butchering the English language and misusing words.

As Cek rightfully pointed out, I'm not butchering English, and you should pluck the beam from your own eye before pointing out the mote in mine.

I thought you transphobes were all about having a solid scientific understanding of things.

First off where is the Kinsey Scale solidly scientific?

It is used in psychology, which is a field of scientific study. If actual fucking scientists find it useful, I'd say that makes a damn good case that it is, in fact, scientifically sound.

Please show me because there is nothing that proves that humans are a 1, 2, 3 or so on.

>scientist creates a scale to describe the variation of human sexual attraction, which is so useful to helping understand the phenomenon that other scientists in his field use it to this day
>I don't see any fookin evidence

Logic 100

The entire scale is based on self reporting evidence and I will not accept it as scientific fact.

Contrary to popular belief, self-reporting does not automatically make something invalid. In fact, in many cases in medicine, it is the only tool available. There's a reason the pain scale exists, after all.

More directly, self-reporting is an important tool in psychology, because until extremely recently, we did not have the tools to objectively determine many of the phenomena going on inside the human brain (and arguably we arguably still don't). This is a fundamental limitation of not only our own understanding, but of our technology and most importantly, of ethics. You might as well say that feeling around in a dark room is an invalid way of understanding what the room looks like because you can't feel a difference in colors.

If that were true, they wouldn't be different things on the scale.

Only if you are operating from the assumption that the scale is fact, which I am not. Therefore bisexuality is the attraction to both male and females no matter how much.

If one likes men 90% of the time yet 10% of the time they like women then they are still bisexual. To claim otherwise is the eraser of bisexuals

Fuckin hardly.

Who died and made you the Lesbian Police?

The Dictionary, which is not a dictator or dictatorship just so you know.

The Dictionary died and put you in charge?

I dare you to quote where I said that. I triple dog doctor dare you to quote it.

Honestly, I've just taken to calling myself a transbian, but once in a blue blood super moon, I can be attracted to a guy.

Nowhere in that quote did I ever say I was never attracted to men.

XXY? XYY? XXYY? XO?

So statistically insignificant it that it doesn’t matter.

False.

Next!!

No, but the only person bringing that possibility up is you. All we want is for the minority to not have their equal rights being trampled by the majority.

No you want me to change my beliefs

Because that's what intellectually honest people do when faced with facts that thoroughly disprove their shitty worldviews.

and force me to believe that a man is a woman and vice versa. That’s not equal rights. You want be to believe and cater to the idea that there are 63+ sexualities and genders when there aren’t. That’s not equal rights.

Equal rights are me not firing someone because of who they are. Equal rights are not forcing me to play along so you don’t get your feelings hurt.

You know, you never did answer this:

Tell me, what is your fucking goal here? Do you think you're going to succeed where every TERF and Bean Sharpie clone before you has failed? Do you honestly think you'll finally hit the right combination of condescension, concern trolling, and bullshit that'll magically make every trans person here go into conversion therapy and start detransitioning?

Still a better ideology that libertarianism and degeneracy.

A gay Jewish man is using a buzzword from an ideology that would have him killed if it came to power.

We truly live in the weirdest timeline.

Indeed. Turkeys voting for Thanksgiving.

I don't get how you can be lesbian and pansexual (ignoring my skepticism of pansexuality).

Because while I do experience some attraction to men, it is infrequent enough that I am functionally a lesbian.

Also I don’t hate trans people.

You do, you just refuse to admit it. But your words and rhetoric speak for you. You barge in where you are not welcome, demand explanations from us in bad faith for the slightest of perceived offenses (your latest jihad, crusade, whathaveyou against me for daring to call myself a pansexual transbian is but the most recent example), bash us for daring to be who we are, and concern troll and otherwise attempt to gaslight us, and all manner of other bullshit. You might not be committing direct acts of violence, but you are still committing acts of hatred nonetheless. And you either already know this, or you are so utterly incompetent that you fail to realize. I, for one, cannot believe someone capable of operating a computer could be that incompetent, so therefore, the only alternative motivation to assign to you is maliciousness.

Of course, by 'forcing you', you mean, 'disagreeing with you.'

No I mean forcing not disagreeing. As in making it hate speech for me to use the improper pronouns. That is forcing me

Yes, we're gonna throw you in imaginary Canadian pronoun jail.

Do you deny making those 3 claims, or are you not disputing that but insisting that these 3 claims aren't transphobic?

Transphobic yes but that doesn’t mean I hate trans people.

Actually, it explicitly does.

I do not want to see them killed or harmed

Yes, and a lot of neo nazis and white supremacists say they don't want the "undesirables" "killed or harmed", either. Even if they honestly believe it, reality tells a different story.

Like it or fucking not, even if you're utterly fucking pacifist when it comes to enforcing your hatred upon us, your rhetoric creates and actively maintains an environment where violence against us is implicitly allowed and excused. You'd think a gay Jewish person, of all people, would have learned the dangers of that based on the lessons of the last century.

Hate is not contingent upon violent desires. I hate Steve Bannon, but I don't want him to be physically hurt.

Well I don’t hate trans people so....

If this is love, its an awfully fucking abusive way of showing it. It might as well be hate.

I think that I have more of a grasp of the English language than someone who doesn't even know the difference between a piece of jewelry and someone obsessed with minor details.

Mocking someone with a disability. Oh how progressive

You still have no standing to criticize anyone for "butchering" the English language, particularly when said butchering is nonexistent.

Because they have the power of God and Anime on their side. Allegedly.

I thought anime was pro-trans. Really, anime hurts whichever side it's on.

With regard to transphobic people, I imagine they believe they're on the right side of history and, if not, then that they're on the right side of morality/truth and that we're all spiralling towards dystopia. I mean they're right about that last part (dystopia) but for different reasons.

Everyone is the hero of their own story. The real trick is to show how they're simultaneously being the villain of someone else's story. I personally try to be as unvillainous as I can, but no ethical consumption under capitalism. Though I may never reach my goal, the effort yields its own rewards.

Jesus being XX is more plausible than Jesus not having a biological father at all. It's very unlikely that Jesus of Nazareth was XX it's at least possible. Conception without sperm is not.

I'm waiting for the Catholics to storm in here and verbally smack you around for committing blasphemy repeatedly and ignorantly. Also, naming a girl child Josh is just absurd.

I mean, saying Jesus was a trans man is mostly only good to piss of the fundies. But, in all honesty, he was likely intersex.

Honestly, though, if suggesting that Jesus was a trans man is "blasphemy", then that only underscores the point that the people calling it blasphemy are transphobic. After all, its only "blasphemy" if its denigrating. If someone thinks that even the mere suggestion that someone else is trans is denigrating to that person, then the first person clearly has hatred, on some level, for trans people.

The only other possible reason to call it blasphemy that I can think of would be if it were simply an inaccurate representation of Christ, but the outrage disparity between, say, racially inaccurately depicting Christ, and suggesting Christ was trans, are quite telling. Nobody, Catholic, Protestant, or Orthodox gets nearly as outraged at a painting of a white Jesus, or a black Jesus.

Jesus being XX is more plausible than Jesus not having a biological father at all. It's very unlikely that Jesus of Nazareth was XX it's at least possible. Conception without sperm is not.

It’s more plausible that Jesus of Nazareth didn’t exist....

To be fair, the common historical consensus is that Jesus of Nazareth did exist. The primary question concerns his divinity. But, that's more of a topic for the CDT than the TDT.

There has been a lot of muddying of the waters with even groups like pedophiles and fetishists trying to grift themselves into the classification, so here's a comprehensive list - the LGBT/LGBTI/LGBTIA umbrella (there is no "Q", it's an offensive slur) encompasses:
-Anyone who is a sexual orientation other than straight (gay, bi, or asexual),
-Anyone who does not identify with the gender they were born with,
-Anyone who is born with an intersex condition.

And also, sometimes anyone who is "Gender Nonconforming" is included (LGBTIAGNC) which includes things like straight cisgender crossdressers.

So who is actually seriously trying to include paedophilia in the definition?

Nobody except the pedophiles themselves, who get rightfully, overwhelmingly, and rabidly, trounced by the vast majority of the LGBT+ community for doing so.

I'm incredibly reluctant to consider any historical person transgender, and I'm pretty sure that the historical Jesus was a cishet man, but if someone is outright offended at the idea that Jesus was trans, that says a lot about what they believe about the value of trans people.

I don't know too many people who'd be offended by the insinuation if it were honestly made and not simply intended as a bit of trolling. I think the more common response would be "um, no." But, yeah, I wouldn't leap to identifying the sexual orientations and gender identities of people in the past without knowledge of how sex, sexuality, and gender fit into their society.

I mean, its hard to get 'more explicitly transgender' than Elagabalus. You don't become the emperor of the notoriously "masculinity good, femininity bad" Roman Empire, and then offer half the empire to any surgeon who can give you sex reassignment surgery unless you're transgender.

Even if Therm's tiny number is accurate, 0.005% of the population is still hundreds of thousands of people. Hundreds of thousands of people that we have to pretend aren't real in order to carry on believing that human sex is binary. It'd be like ignoring the city of Atlanta.

The city of Atlanta doesn’t get to dictate national policy.

The city of Atlanta does have federal representation in Congress, both through the Senate, and through the Representatives of the districts it composes. Therefore, its population does get a say in national policy.

The only person saying, suggesting, and implying that trans people want to dictate anything is you. Stop being disingenuous. All we want is our equal fucking rights to be as miserable as everyone else.

If anyone ever tells me they're transage, I'm going to douse them with a hose until they go away.

To me it looks like an attempt to disguise pedophilia by piggyback riding off the transgender community.

Oh, it definitely is. For our part, the trans community as a whole seems to be having none of it.

XXY? XYY? XXYY? XO?



No, but the only person bringing that possibility up is you. All we want is for the minority to not have their equal rights being trampled by the majority.

By that logic, saying "humans have two legs" is a false statement, because some are missing a leg or have a third.

If you're gonna go all "Man is a featherless biped" on me, I will channel Diogenes.

That's probably because bathrooms are based on gender, hence why there isn't an intersex bathroom.

Once on this forum I asked a bathroom bill supporter "So which bathroom should intersex people use?" and they actually responded "They should just hold it until they get home."

The other thing they fail to consider is that when gender in public bathrooms is policed, some cis people will be harassed too. What if you're a cis man but kind of androgynous looking, are you okay with someone demanding you carry your birth certificate with you to prove you're allowed to use the men's room? They never think of that.

Or butch cis lesbians. There have been actual events where they've been harrassed (verbally and physically) in bathrooms by overzealous transphobes.

Excuse me what?!

Has something puzzled you?

Look, as a trans Christian, and someone who has pulled very few punches with Therm lately, and someone who has gotten into many, many fights with various people on this forum about God being ok with LGBT+ people, and someone who is quite blunt that anyone who is offended at the suggestion that Jesus was trans is inherently transphobic, I'll be the first to agree that yeah, there's no basis for your claim. There is plenty of biblical evidence that directly contradicts the "Jesus was trans" narrative.

[Nakena]

And each different type of intersex could very easily be sorted into either male or female.

And who does the sorting?

The Crockerland Commission.

[Grenartia]

And who does the sorting?

The Crockerland Commission.

I was gonna guess a talking hat.

[Dumb Ideologies]

The Crockerland Commission.

I was gonna guess a talking hat.

Imagine getting Hufflepuff-gendered. I think I'd leave, wouldn't you?

[Ifreann]

Nah, that's just 4chan doin' an op.

4chan time travelers in the 1970s.

But that's exactly what people are doing. To say that sex is binary is to say that intersex people are not real, and they definitely are real.

How? Intersex people are real, and are compatible with the binary, because intersex people, even those with chromosomes other than XY or XX, are either male (XXY, XYY, XXYY) or female (XO).

Because if there's more than two possibilities, it isn't a binary.

[West Leas Oros 2]

I was gonna guess a talking hat.

Imagine getting Hufflepuff-gendered. I think I'd leave, wouldn't you?

At least you aren't in Slytherin...

[Crockerland]

4chan time travelers in the 1970s.


How? Intersex people are real, and are compatible with the binary, because intersex people, even those with chromosomes other than XY or XX, are either male (XXY, XYY, XXYY) or female (XO).

Because if there's more than two possibilities, it isn't a binary.

Here are the possibilities:
-Male
-Female

So it's a binary.

Intersex people are not a third possibility, any more than bald people, or black people, or tall people. Like all other groups, intersex people are born either male or female.

[Ifreann]

Because if there's more than two possibilities, it isn't a binary.

Here are the possibilities:
-Male
-Female

So it's a binary.

Intersex people are not a third possibility, any more than bald people, or black people, or tall people. Like all other groups, intersex people are born either male or female.

This seems to be an entirely novel conceptualisation of sex.

[Cekoviu]

I was gonna guess a talking hat.

Imagine getting Hufflepuff-gendered. I think I'd leave, wouldn't you?

Every time I've ever taken a Hogwarts sorting quiz, I've gotten Hufflepuff. :(

Because if there's more than two possibilities, it isn't a binary.

Here are the possibilities:
-Male
-Female

So it's a binary.

Intersex people are not a third possibility, any more than bald people, or black people, or tall people. Like all other groups, intersex people are born either male or female.

>bald isn't a gender
Are you even hearing yourself right now?

[Ifreann]

Imagine getting Hufflepuff-gendered. I think I'd leave, wouldn't you?

Every time I've ever taken a Hogwarts sorting quiz, I've gotten Hufflepuff.

The reliable, hard-working gender that gets killed halfway through the series to up the stakes for the main genders.

[Des-Bal]

Because if there's more than two possibilities, it isn't a binary.

This supposes total uniformity among members of a class and that any deformity creates a new class. These are very silly things to suppose.

[Des-Bal]

>bald isn't a gender
Are you even hearing yourself right now?

You were so shocked you forgot sex and gender were different things. Are you objecting to the idea that bald isn't a sex?

[Cekoviu]

>bald isn't a gender
Are you even hearing yourself right now?

You were so shocked you forgot sex and gender were different things. Are you objecting to the idea that bald isn't a sex?

Both

[Des-Bal]

Both

So bald is in fact a sex?

[Cekoviu]

Both

So bald is in fact a sex?

How is this even a line of questioning? Obviously it is.

[West Leas Oros 2]

Both

So bald is in fact a sex?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADkLBtSGKMo

[Saciu]

Has something puzzled you?

Look, as a trans Christian, and someone who has pulled very few punches with Therm lately, and someone who has gotten into many, many fights with various people on this forum about God being ok with LGBT+ people, and someone who is quite blunt that anyone who is offended at the suggestion that Jesus was trans is inherently transphobic, I'll be the first to agree that yeah, there's no basis for your claim. There is plenty of biblical evidence that directly contradicts the "Jesus was trans" narrative.

Um... it was a joke... I don't actually believe that.

[Dumb Ideologies]

Imagine getting Hufflepuff-gendered. I think I'd leave, wouldn't you?

Every time I've ever taken a Hogwarts sorting quiz, I've gotten Hufflepuff.

In times long past my result tended to be Ravenclaw but now I always get Slytherin. This, I think, reflects the natural cycle of growth from naive nerdy intellectualism to the righteous desire to purge society of the impure.

In other news my partner's surgery is tomorrow and I'm most definitely not panicking about everything being okay and my dubious capabilities when it comes to looking after someone.

[Saciu]

Every time I've ever taken a Hogwarts sorting quiz, I've gotten Hufflepuff.

In times long past my result tended to be Ravenclaw but now I always get Slytherin. This, I think, reflects the natural cycle of growth from naive nerdy intellectualism to the righteous desire to purge society of the impure.

In other news my partner's surgery is tomorrow and I'm most definitely not panicking about everything being okay and my dubious capabilities when it comes to looking after someone.

Good luck to both of you, I'm sure it'll be fine.