TDT 4: What the $#@! is a "womxn", anyways?

[Hediacrana]

As I said in a post right before Procto brought this story up, that narrative really is the flavor of the month for the anti-SJW crowd these days:



'Think of the children,' the GOP's favorite rhetorical trick since Reagan. Nothing better to get a mob riled up than a nicely manufactured moral panic.

Yeah it's this whole "HOW DO I EXPLAIN THIS TO MY CHILD" argument, which is so tried. They were literally saying this about gay people 15 years ago when same-gender marriage was the new hot button issue.

However concern for the youth can be valid sometimes; Trans activists are thinking of the children. They're thinking of transgender children and advocating for their right to transition, to not go through a puberty that would make dysphoria much worse, and to allow them to have a chance at being themselves. However that gets likened to coercion, however, you know who are getting mutilation and coerced? Intersex children, while intersex and being trans are not the same thing. "Concerned" cis people rail against what they do intersex youth.

Exactly, the rhetorical trick remains the same, even if the issue shifts.

Also, yes, certainly, concern for the youth can be valid - as a parent, you bet I'm concerned for my child for all kinds of reasons. It's precisely because I know how deeply felt parental concerns can be that I have little patience for politicians tapping into it to score points in a cynically manufactured moral panic.

[Cekoviu]

Yeah it's this whole "HOW DO I EXPLAIN THIS TO MY CHILD" argument, which is so tried. They were literally saying this about gay people 15 years ago when same-gender marriage was the new hot button issue.

However concern for the youth can be valid sometimes; Trans activists are thinking of the children. They're thinking of transgender children and advocating for their right to transition, to not go through a puberty that would make dysphoria much worse, and to allow them to have a chance at being themselves. However that gets likened to coercion, however, you know who are getting mutilation and coerced? Intersex children, while intersex and being trans are not the same thing. "Concerned" cis people rail against what they do intersex youth.

Well "How do I explain this to my child?" is not an argument that is going away. Teachers HAVE to think about this question with kids. People will ALWAYS think about this question, because surprise, kids are not always emotionally mature or ready enough for some topics. Some kids are too little and some kids are sensitive to certain topics. It's why people were told to turn-off footage of 9/11, because psychologists said it was affecting kids.

Besides, kids who are very young shouldn't be able to transition, not when their bodies are still forming and growing and they're nowhere close to puberty. They need to be allowed to grow, and to develop. Messing with the hormones of a 4-year-old, 5-year-old is a horrible idea because their bodies are still in the very foundations of their development. I dunno what the solution should be for little bitty children with this sort of dysphoria. I'm not a scientist. But I do know enough about biology that little boys need testosterone and little girls need estrogen (technically both genders have both, just in varying qualities) in order for them to grow, not just to develop sexual organs or sexual functions.

People under 8 simply do not medically transition under the supervision of a healthcare provider. Their hormones will not be modified. The only reason that they would be given puberty blockers is for precocious puberty, and hormones will not be prescribed for a transgender child before 13. Transition for people under 8 is purely social in the absence of another health condition. Please inform yourself before believing and spreading false information, because what you're doing is causing real harm to transgender people.

[Luminesa]

Well "How do I explain this to my child?" is not an argument that is going away. Teachers HAVE to think about this question with kids. People will ALWAYS think about this question, because surprise, kids are not always emotionally mature or ready enough for some topics. Some kids are too little and some kids are sensitive to certain topics. It's why people were told to turn-off footage of 9/11, because psychologists said it was affecting kids.

Besides, kids who are very young shouldn't be able to transition, not when their bodies are still forming and growing and they're nowhere close to puberty. They need to be allowed to grow, and to develop. Messing with the hormones of a 4-year-old, 5-year-old is a horrible idea because their bodies are still in the very foundations of their development. I dunno what the solution should be for little bitty children with this sort of dysphoria. I'm not a scientist. But I do know enough about biology that little boys need testosterone and little girls need estrogen (technically both genders have both, just in varying qualities) in order for them to grow, not just to develop sexual organs or sexual functions.

People under 8 simply do not medically transition under the supervision of a healthcare provider. Their hormones will not be modified. The only reason that they would be given puberty blockers is for precocious puberty, and hormones will not be prescribed for a transgender child before 13. Transition for people under 8 is purely social in the absence of another health condition. Please inform yourself before believing and spreading false information, because what you're doing is causing real harm to transgender people.

Well what kind of transition does a prepubescent child undergo for gender dysphoria, then?

[Hediacrana]

People under 8 simply do not medically transition under the supervision of a healthcare provider. Their hormones will not be modified. The only reason that they would be given puberty blockers is for precocious puberty, and hormones will not be prescribed for a transgender child before 13. Transition for people under 8 is purely social in the absence of another health condition. Please inform yourself before believing and spreading false information, because what you're doing is causing real harm to transgender people.

Well what kind of transition does a prepubescent child undergo for gender dysphoria, then?

Social, as Cekoviu said. Bolded for your convenience.

[Cekoviu]

People under 8 simply do not medically transition under the supervision of a healthcare provider. Their hormones will not be modified. The only reason that they would be given puberty blockers is for precocious puberty, and hormones will not be prescribed for a transgender child before 13. Transition for people under 8 is purely social in the absence of another health condition. Please inform yourself before believing and spreading false information, because what you're doing is causing real harm to transgender people.

Well what kind of transition does a prepubescent child undergo for gender dysphoria, then?

As I said, social only. Wearing clothes and a hairstyle associated with the gender with which they identify, using pronouns associated with said gender, preferred name change (a legal name change might be possible, but I'm unsure as to how common it is), being treated as their identified gender. All completely reversible.

[Luminesa]

Well what kind of transition does a prepubescent child undergo for gender dysphoria, then?

Social, as Cekoviu said. Bolded for your convenience.

I did miss that, actually.

[Thermodolia]

Playing with girl toys and wearing girl clothes doesn’t make one automatically not Cis anymore than a girl liking to wear flannel is automatically gay

The kid specifically said they're a girl, according to the only account of the situation available. Why the fuck can't people read??

Ya and I’m not buying the idea that a four year old has any idea what they are. This is the same woman who claimed that her two year old asked where the girl clothes are. I don’t buy it.

Ask the kid at 10 when they have a better understanding of what a girl is and not at four where they have no fucking clue what a girl or a boy are.

[Thermodolia]

Playing with girl toys and wearing girl clothes doesn’t make one automatically not Cis anymore than a girl liking to wear flannel is automatically gay

Nobody said otherwise.

I’m making sure that people don’t say otherwise.

The kid specifically said they're a girl, according to the only account of the situation available. Why the fuck can't people read??

More importantly, why is it only the cis people who are assuming the only reason anyone thinks the kid is trans is some strawman bullshit about "playing with dolls"?

So I guess that makes the mother who is Cis at fault here for automatically assuming that her kid who is most likely autistic is trans for playing with dresses and girl toys? What ever happened to let kids be kids and letting them figure everything out in their teens/young adult lives?

Though it’s pretty sad that the woman would rather have a trans kid than a kid who’s most likely autistic

[Thermodolia]

Well what kind of transition does a prepubescent child undergo for gender dysphoria, then?

As I said, social only. Wearing clothes and a hairstyle associated with the gender with which they identify, using pronouns associated with said gender, preferred name change (a legal name change might be possible, but I'm unsure as to how common it is), being treated as their identified gender. All completely reversible.

A legal name change is going to be pretty hard to reverse when they are older. The paperwork is gonna be a bitch

[Nakena]

Theres not an necessarily a contradiction present here as it may appear on first sight, unless we go from the - in my post above - mentioned merger of spheres and purposes. But more on that later.



That is assuming that a dynastic relationship is necessarily excluding the possibility of a pansexual or homosexual relationship, or that the later would require taking place of the former or vice versa. A reproductive (or maybe sometimes dynastic) relationship or marriage has the purpose to produce offspring by combining the genetic traits of it's biological parents. Reproductive and romantic relationship are not necessarily the same. The presumption of the necessarility of having both to be combined is a product of victorian 19th century romanticism ideals and lifestyle and relatively new. Its somewhat ironic to adopt that throughly "buergliche" ideal from an LGBT viewpoint.

Honestly, this post, the one you made before it, and the one you made after it all seem like some well-tossed word salad. Can you rephrase them?

tl;dr: You can be monarch and have an official marriage for dynastic purposes and have a homosexual/bi/pan/whatever relationship - or quite possibly even a left-handed marriage - for your own individual romantic or other purposes.

PS: It's good to be a Queen!

Honestly, this post, the one you made before it, and the one you made after it all seem like some well-tossed word salad. Can you rephrase them?

It sounds like:
"Why can't just LGBT and conservatives just get along and let each other be?
We can have the monarchy disallow gay marriages within but let the people they rule do whatever we want."

That isnt even entirely a wrong take.

In other words "Utopian enlightened centrism" that has the same energy of that one editorial saying "In my ideal world White nationalist and Jewish people get along."

No.

[Uiiop]

Honestly, this post, the one you made before it, and the one you made after it all seem like some well-tossed word salad. Can you rephrase them?

tl;dr: You can be monarch and have an official marriage for dynastic purposes and have a homosexual/bi/pan/whatever relationship - or quite possibly even a left-handed marriage - for your own individual romantic or other purposes.

PS: It's good to be a Queen!

It sounds like:
"Why can't just LGBT and conservatives just get along and let each other be?
We can have the monarchy disallow gay marriages within but let the people they rule do whatever we want."

That isnt even entirely a wrong take.

In other words "Utopian enlightened centrism" that has the same energy of that one editorial saying "In my ideal world White nationalist and Jewish people get along."

Now you're projecting.

Highly doubting you can do more than minimizing “Moralistic dictatorship” aint utopian at the very least.

[Nakena]

Is today some sort of international "make word jumble posts on internet fora" day?

yes

I mean, when you get systematically beaten down by policies right-wingers championed, you tend not to have very much fucking respect for them. Speaking as a former right-winger.

I never pictured you as former right-winger. What kind were you? I am genuinely curious.

I mean, I wouldn't say I hate conservatives, but I do hate the ideology, because it has very little respect for me and people like me. And I have very little respect for people who sincerely believe in ideologies that seek to oppress and marginalize me. And I see no reason why I should think otherwise.

Sometimes compromise isn't possible when radical opposing worldviews collide, specifically when both demand supremacy, or one actively tries to kill the other one.

Highly doubting you can do more than minimizing “Moralistic dictatorship” aint utopian at the very least.

wat

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

Because it is, and it does. Again, I'm a former conservative. I should know.

I wouldn't say that. When you were a conservative, did you want to crush women and minorities? Even if you did, your beliefs aren't representative of all conservatives.

I can't say I've seen anything that adequately refutes that assessment.

I have. I've seen conservatives who don't fit those groups.

In my experience, if they're 'cool with LGBT+', then they're decidedly not cool with some other group of people. I, for one, refuse to give them a pass on suppressing ethnic and religious minorities, for instance, simply because they happen to be 'cool' with people like me. And that's assuming they don't support politicians and policymakers who aren't cool with people like me.

Which they almost invariably do, because when push comes to shove, people like the Log Cabin Republicans will support assholes like Donald Trump and Mike Pence if it means a fucking pointless border wall and brown kids in cages.

Well then don't excuse the conservatives that want to suppress minorities, only excuse the ones that don't.

[Auzkhia]

Yeah it's this whole "HOW DO I EXPLAIN THIS TO MY CHILD" argument, which is so tried. They were literally saying this about gay people 15 years ago when same-gender marriage was the new hot button issue.

However concern for the youth can be valid sometimes; Trans activists are thinking of the children. They're thinking of transgender children and advocating for their right to transition, to not go through a puberty that would make dysphoria much worse, and to allow them to have a chance at being themselves. However that gets likened to coercion, however, you know who are getting mutilation and coerced? Intersex children, while intersex and being trans are not the same thing. "Concerned" cis people rail against what they do intersex youth.

Well "How do I explain this to my child?" is not an argument that is going away. Teachers HAVE to think about this question with kids. People will ALWAYS think about this question, because surprise, kids are not always emotionally mature or ready enough for some topics. Some kids are too little and some kids are sensitive to certain topics. It's why people were told to turn-off footage of 9/11, because psychologists said it was affecting kids.

Besides, kids who are very young shouldn't be able to transition, not when their bodies are still forming and growing and they're nowhere close to puberty. They need to be allowed to grow, and to develop. Messing with the hormones of a 4-year-old, 5-year-old is a horrible idea because their bodies are still in the very foundations of their development. I dunno what the solution should be for little bitty children with this sort of dysphoria. I'm not a scientist. But I do know enough about biology that little boys need testosterone and little girls need estrogen (technically both genders have both, just in varying qualities) in order for them to grow, not just to develop sexual organs or sexual functions.

Good thing nobody is doing that.

I said this before, pre-pubescent transition is low stakes, as it is just social and legal. There is no need for puberty blockers since it hasn't happened yet. Once they reach the onset, then they are eligible for it, and then get on HRT when they are much older, usually at 18. Going through the first puberty gave me things I do not want like a deep voice and facial hair. I wish someone would have transed me at 4

[Vassenor]

Yeah it's this whole "HOW DO I EXPLAIN THIS TO MY CHILD" argument, which is so tried. They were literally saying this about gay people 15 years ago when same-gender marriage was the new hot button issue.

However concern for the youth can be valid sometimes; Trans activists are thinking of the children. They're thinking of transgender children and advocating for their right to transition, to not go through a puberty that would make dysphoria much worse, and to allow them to have a chance at being themselves. However that gets likened to coercion, however, you know who are getting mutilation and coerced? Intersex children, while intersex and being trans are not the same thing. "Concerned" cis people rail against what they do intersex youth.

Well "How do I explain this to my child?" is not an argument that is going away. Teachers HAVE to think about this question with kids. People will ALWAYS think about this question, because surprise, kids are not always emotionally mature or ready enough for some topics. Some kids are too little and some kids are sensitive to certain topics. It's why people were told to turn-off footage of 9/11, because psychologists said it was affecting kids.

Besides, kids who are very young shouldn't be able to transition, not when their bodies are still forming and growing and they're nowhere close to puberty. They need to be allowed to grow, and to develop. Messing with the hormones of a 4-year-old, 5-year-old is a horrible idea because their bodies are still in the very foundations of their development. I dunno what the solution should be for little bitty children with this sort of dysphoria. I'm not a scientist. But I do know enough about biology that little boys need testosterone and little girls need estrogen (technically both genders have both, just in varying qualities) in order for them to grow, not just to develop sexual organs or sexual functions.

So who is proposing giving hormones to prepubescent children?

[Cekoviu]

The kid specifically said they're a girl, according to the only account of the situation available. Why the fuck can't people read??

Ya and I’m not buying the idea that a four year old has any idea what they are. This is the same woman who claimed that her two year old asked where the girl clothes are. I don’t buy it.

Ask the kid at 10 when they have a better understanding of what a girl is and not at four where they have no fucking clue what a girl or a boy are.

Please explain why this matters given that she's taken exclusively reversible steps.

As I said, social only. Wearing clothes and a hairstyle associated with the gender with which they identify, using pronouns associated with said gender, preferred name change (a legal name change might be possible, but I'm unsure as to how common it is), being treated as their identified gender. All completely reversible.

A legal name change is going to be pretty hard to reverse when they are older. The paperwork is gonna be a bitch

I doubt that a judge would allow a name change to go through for someone that young on that basis, so I don't imagine it would be an issue. I'm just not certain.

[Vassenor]

As I said, social only. Wearing clothes and a hairstyle associated with the gender with which they identify, using pronouns associated with said gender, preferred name change (a legal name change might be possible, but I'm unsure as to how common it is), being treated as their identified gender. All completely reversible.

A legal name change is going to be pretty hard to reverse when they are older. The paperwork is gonna be a bitch

And you base this conclusion on... what?

[Cekoviu]

A legal name change is going to be pretty hard to reverse when they are older. The paperwork is gonna be a bitch

And you base this conclusion on... what?

I've been through the US name change process, and it really is a bureaucratic bitch. The actual name change isn't terribly difficult as long as you can spare the fee, you have a clear reason for changing it, and (if you're a minor) it isn't contested by one of the parents, but it's a lot of work to try to update all your legal documents and forms of identification and get it in place with insurance, schools, etc.

[Thermodolia]

Ya and I’m not buying the idea that a four year old has any idea what they are. This is the same woman who claimed that her two year old asked where the girl clothes are. I don’t buy it.

Ask the kid at 10 when they have a better understanding of what a girl is and not at four where they have no fucking clue what a girl or a boy are.

Please explain why this matters given that she's taken exclusively reversible steps.

It matters a lot because it hurts their mental health and reinforces the idea in the poor kids head that boys don’t play with girl toys.

The kid here and vegan cats have a lot in common, most specifically that neither made their own choice.

And it also matters because a child shouldn’t be forced to be trans when they have no idea what gender even is at this age. It’s a damn shame that you are supporting child abuse.

A legal name change is going to be pretty hard to reverse when they are older. The paperwork is gonna be a bitch

And you base this conclusion on... what?

A legal name change is going to be pretty hard to reverse when they are older. The paperwork is gonna be a bitch

I doubt that a judge would allow a name change to go through for someone that young on that basis, so I don't imagine it would be an issue. I'm just not certain.

They already got a legal name change what started this was a tweet by the father showing a legally changed birth certificate. The certificate had the name changed from Waylon to Willow. That’s how it came to light, the father has since locked his Twitter account after people rightly called him out on it.

[Vassenor]

Please explain why this matters given that she's taken exclusively reversible steps.

It matters a lot because it hurts their mental health and reinforces the idea in the poor kids head that boys don’t play with girl toys.

The kid here and vegan cats have a lot in common, most specifically that neither made their own choice.

And it also matters because a child shouldn’t be forced to be trans when they have no idea what gender even is at this age. It’s a damn shame that you are supporting child abuse.

Did you actually read the article? The kid very much made their own choice. If anything, you're the one trying to force them to act.

[Luminesa]

Well "How do I explain this to my child?" is not an argument that is going away. Teachers HAVE to think about this question with kids. People will ALWAYS think about this question, because surprise, kids are not always emotionally mature or ready enough for some topics. Some kids are too little and some kids are sensitive to certain topics. It's why people were told to turn-off footage of 9/11, because psychologists said it was affecting kids.

Besides, kids who are very young shouldn't be able to transition, not when their bodies are still forming and growing and they're nowhere close to puberty. They need to be allowed to grow, and to develop. Messing with the hormones of a 4-year-old, 5-year-old is a horrible idea because their bodies are still in the very foundations of their development. I dunno what the solution should be for little bitty children with this sort of dysphoria. I'm not a scientist. But I do know enough about biology that little boys need testosterone and little girls need estrogen (technically both genders have both, just in varying qualities) in order for them to grow, not just to develop sexual organs or sexual functions.

Good thing nobody is doing that.

I said this before, pre-pubescent transition is low stakes, as it is just social and legal. There is no need for puberty blockers since it hasn't happened yet. Once they reach the onset, then they are eligible for it, and then get on HRT when they are much older, usually at 18. Going through the first puberty gave me things I do not want like a deep voice and facial hair. I wish someone would have transed me at 4

If you had been put on HRT at 4 years of age, your body would be phenomenally messed-up. I mean, I certainly hope your body is doing alright now, but at 4 years of age? Your body needed those hormones in order to grow. Were you put on blockers when you were a teenager? (I have no idea how old you are, nor am I trying to gauge your age.)

[Luminesa]

It matters a lot because it hurts their mental health and reinforces the idea in the poor kids head that boys don’t play with girl toys.

The kid here and vegan cats have a lot in common, most specifically that neither made their own choice.

And it also matters because a child shouldn’t be forced to be trans when they have no idea what gender even is at this age. It’s a damn shame that you are supporting child abuse.

Did you actually read the article? The kid very much made their own choice. If anything, you're the one trying to force them to act.

I’m pretty sure we’re all talking about it because we read the article and drew different conclusions from it. How are we sure that you yourself actually read it, given you haven’t given any actual indication with evidence from the text?

[Vassenor]

Did you actually read the article? The kid very much made their own choice. If anything, you're the one trying to force them to act.

I’m pretty sure we’re all talking about it because we read the article and drew different conclusions from it. How are we sure that you yourself actually read it, given you haven’t given any actual indication with evidence from the text?

So what did I miss in the article that proves the mother is forcing this on their child?

[Thermodolia]

It matters a lot because it hurts their mental health and reinforces the idea in the poor kids head that boys don’t play with girl toys.

The kid here and vegan cats have a lot in common, most specifically that neither made their own choice.

And it also matters because a child shouldn’t be forced to be trans when they have no idea what gender even is at this age. It’s a damn shame that you are supporting child abuse.

Did you actually read the article? The kid very much made their own choice. If anything, you're the one trying to force them to act.

I did read the article. And as I explained there is no way that the kid made his own decision as a kid at two and four years old has no concept of what a girl is other than the fact that they wear dresses and play with dolls.

[Vassenor]

Did you actually read the article? The kid very much made their own choice. If anything, you're the one trying to force them to act.

I did read the article. And as I explained there is no way that the kid made his own decision as a kid at two and four years old has no concept of what a girl is other than the fact that they wear dresses and play with dolls.

"This can't be possible because I think kids are too stupid to think for themselves" is not sound logic.