TDT 4: What the $#@! is a "womxn", anyways?

[Auzkhia]

As others have noted, sexual orientation is distinct from gender identity. And connected to that, I think one thing people commonly get wrong about trans people is that being trans is not all about sexuality - as Contrapoints once said, transitioning is not just for the bedroom. Without wanting to speak for others, it's also very much about how you relate to others socially, and most importantly, how you relate to yourself.

Or, to put it in a catchier way, sexual orientation is who you go to bed with, gender identity is who you go to bed as.

It's why cis drag queens don't want people to date them or want people to have sex when in drag, because you're getting a man, but with trans people, there is no undragging, what you see is what you get.

Well looks like I need to retract anything I said about my passability after today. Because after being clocked easily it's clear that I don't.

That's sarcasm right... You were clocked once out of God knows how many times, I'm pretty sure.

It's like ContraPoints said: the guy at the gas station doesn't call you Miss or Ma'am because he's being actively politically correct to make you feel better.

Whereas, I'm wondering how much of a paranoid obsessive do you have to be to be able to claim you're a human gender detector.

Looks in the direction of TERFs.

Passing is so weird.

Women see me in the women's bathroom as normal, I walked as one woman walked out, she did not say anything or squirm. Yet I sometimes still get called "sir" or "man", but sometimes "ma'am" or "miss" though the latter is happening more often than the former. Of course the likes of TERFs are going to call me a BURGEONING man whomst no amount of hormones will ever fix. But, most real people seem to disagree with that. I find that men tend to misgender me more than women. Don't know why. I'm nonbinary, as I said before, but unless I want to out myself as trans, I try to let people treat me as a woman instead of being treated like a man.

Or, to put it in a catchier way, sexual orientation is who you go to bed with, gender identity is who you go to bed as.

That's why I'd never run for office - I don't naturally use catchy language

Just because you identify as a wizard and wear wizard clothes, doesn't make you a wizard!

It's all about the wand?

The wand chooses the wizard and a princess is never complete without her wand.

[Luminesa]

Or, to put it in a catchier way, sexual orientation is who you go to bed with, gender identity is who you go to bed as.

It's why cis drag queens don't want people to date them or want people to have sex when in drag, because you're getting a man, but with trans people, there is no undragging, what you see is what you get.

That's sarcasm right... You were clocked once out of God knows how many times, I'm pretty sure.

It's like ContraPoints said: the guy at the gas station doesn't call you Miss or Ma'am because he's being actively politically correct to make you feel better.

Whereas, I'm wondering how much of a paranoid obsessive do you have to be to be able to claim you're a human gender detector.

Looks in the direction of TERFs.

Passing is so weird.

Women see me in the women's bathroom as normal, I walked as one woman walked out, she did not say anything or squirm. Yet I sometimes still get called "sir" or "man", but sometimes "ma'am" or "miss" though the latter is happening more often than the former. Of course the likes of TERFs are going to call me a BURGEONING man whomst no amount of hormones will ever fix. But, most real people seem to disagree with that. I find that men tend to misgender me more than women. Don't know why. I'm nonbinary, as I said before, but unless I want to out myself as trans, I try to let people treat me as a woman instead of being treated like a man.

That's why I'd never run for office - I don't naturally use catchy language


It's all about the wand?

The wand chooses the wizard and a princess is never complete without her wand.

...RuPaul is...a cis man, right? Cause like, he's a drag queen...and I'm pretty sure he's married. And his partner knows...that he's a man. So...is he not the norm?

[Auzkhia]

It's why cis drag queens don't want people to date them or want people to have sex when in drag, because you're getting a man, but with trans people, there is no undragging, what you see is what you get.

Passing is so weird.

Women see me in the women's bathroom as normal, I walked as one woman walked out, she did not say anything or squirm. Yet I sometimes still get called "sir" or "man", but sometimes "ma'am" or "miss" though the latter is happening more often than the former. Of course the likes of TERFs are going to call me a BURGEONING man whomst no amount of hormones will ever fix. But, most real people seem to disagree with that. I find that men tend to misgender me more than women. Don't know why. I'm nonbinary, as I said before, but unless I want to out myself as trans, I try to let people treat me as a woman instead of being treated like a man.

The wand chooses the wizard and a princess is never complete without her wand.

...RuPaul is...a cis man, right? Cause like, he's a drag queen...and I'm pretty sure he's married. And his partner knows...that he's a man. So...is he not the norm?

Yes, that's the norm, unless he is in drag all the time?

[Hediacrana]

Remember Roxsana Hernandez, the transgender asylum seeker from Honduras who died in ICE custody last year? It turns out that video footage of her last days in detention may have illegally been deleted, at a time while an investigation into the circumstances of her death was already on its way.

[Luminesa]

...RuPaul is...a cis man, right? Cause like, he's a drag queen...and I'm pretty sure he's married. And his partner knows...that he's a man. So...is he not the norm?

Yes, that's the norm, unless he is in drag all the time?

I’m only asking because Gren said that drag queens don’t want people to date them in costume. I imagine RuPaul has probably been out with him once or twice in costume.

[Auzkhia]

Remember Roxsana Hernandez, the transgender asylum seeker from Honduras who died in ICE custody last year? It turns out that video footage of her last days in detention may have illegally been deleted, at a time while an investigation into the circumstances of her death was already on its way.

Abolish and prosecute I.C.E

Yes, that's the norm, unless he is in drag all the time?

I’m only asking because Gren said that drag queens don’t want people to date them in costume. I imagine RuPaul has probably been out with him once or twice in costume.

Thing is that cis drag queens consider themselves as men even if they do serve fishy realness, i.e present so feminine that they could be seen as women. RuPaul is a gay man, a man into other men. Their partners can be out with them in any presentation, but drag is just a costume, not their default presentation. I don't know of any cis drag queens that have sex in drag.

[Cekoviu]

Remember Roxsana Hernandez, the transgender asylum seeker from Honduras who died in ICE custody last year? It turns out that video footage of her last days in detention may have illegally been deleted, at a time while an investigation into the circumstances of her death was already on its way.

Abolish and prosecute I.C.E

I’m only asking because Gren said that drag queens don’t want people to date them in costume. I imagine RuPaul has probably been out with him once or twice in costume.

Thing is that cis drag queens consider themselves as men even if they do serve fishy realness, i.e present so feminine that they could be seen as women. RuPaul is a gay man, a man into other men. Their partners can be out with them in any presentation, but drag is just a costume, not their default presentation. I don't know of any cis drag queens that have sex in drag.

People who crossdress while having sex, including in drag, are not uncommon. I get the point that you're making, but the manner of argumentation so far has been very lackluster.

[Auzkhia]

Abolish and prosecute I.C.E

Thing is that cis drag queens consider themselves as men even if they do serve fishy realness, i.e present so feminine that they could be seen as women. RuPaul is a gay man, a man into other men. Their partners can be out with them in any presentation, but drag is just a costume, not their default presentation. I don't know of any cis drag queens that have sex in drag.

People who crossdress while having sex, including in drag, are not uncommon. I get the point that you're making, but the manner of argumentation so far has been very lackluster.

My main point is that a trans person is still their real gender no matter what, unlike drag, which is basically another character a person has.

[Hediacrana]

For those here interested in art history: apparently Andy Warhol made a series of portraits of NYC trans women - Marsha P. Johnson being among them!

Originally commissioned in 1974 by art dealer Luciano Anselmino, the paintings formed Warhol’s ‘Ladies and Gentleman’ series.

The commission followed the death of trans actor Candy Darling, whose powdery blonde hair was often a muse of Warhol.

Warhol and his friend Bob Colacello in 1974 opened the doors of the Gilded Grape just off Times Square in New York City to find new sitters for the commission.

The club on the corner of Eighth Avenue and West 45th Street was a hub for the city’s trans black and Latinx communities.

Colacello would ask patrons if they’d like to model for Warhol – they’d be paid $50 – which led to 250 brightly coloured portraits capturing the vivacious 70s queer scene.

Research by the Andy Warhol Foundation identified all but one of the 14 sitters decades later. One of whom was Marsha P Johnson, a trailblazer in the 1969 Stonewall uprising that charted the course of LGBT+ civil rights for decades to come.

Private collectors have lent 25 of these pieces to the Tate Modern for the exhibition. The works had gathered dust in storage for years, Gregor Muir, a Tate co-curator and director, explained. Making the unveiling of the works within the white walls of the Tate even more historic.

[Bear Stearns]

What is the transgender community's opinion on the triumph of the Massachusetts Puritans over the despotic, crypto-Catholic rule of Edmund Andros in 1689? Furthermore, what lessons can this community draw upon from the conquest of the Yankee Protestant British armies over the papist French lands of Canada and the Midwest in French & Indian War?

[Grenartia]

For those here interested in art history: apparently Andy Warhol made a series of portraits of NYC trans women - Marsha P. Johnson being among them!

Originally commissioned in 1974 by art dealer Luciano Anselmino, the paintings formed Warhol’s ‘Ladies and Gentleman’ series.

The commission followed the death of trans actor Candy Darling, whose powdery blonde hair was often a muse of Warhol.

Warhol and his friend Bob Colacello in 1974 opened the doors of the Gilded Grape just off Times Square in New York City to find new sitters for the commission.

The club on the corner of Eighth Avenue and West 45th Street was a hub for the city’s trans black and Latinx communities.

Colacello would ask patrons if they’d like to model for Warhol – they’d be paid $50 – which led to 250 brightly coloured portraits capturing the vivacious 70s queer scene.

Research by the Andy Warhol Foundation identified all but one of the 14 sitters decades later. One of whom was Marsha P Johnson, a trailblazer in the 1969 Stonewall uprising that charted the course of LGBT+ civil rights for decades to come.

Private collectors have lent 25 of these pieces to the Tate Modern for the exhibition. The works had gathered dust in storage for years, Gregor Muir, a Tate co-curator and director, explained. Making the unveiling of the works within the white walls of the Tate even more historic.

Actually, weren't most of his Superstars trans women?

What is the transgender community's opinion on the triumph of the Massachusetts Puritans over the despotic, crypto-Catholic rule of Edmund Andros in 1689? Furthermore, what lessons can this community draw upon from the conquest of the Yankee Protestant British armies over the papist French lands of Canada and the Midwest in French & Indian War?

What the hell?

[The Rich Port]

What is the transgender community's opinion on the triumph of the Massachusetts Puritans over the despotic, crypto-Catholic rule of Edmund Andros in 1689? Furthermore, what lessons can this community draw upon from the conquest of the Yankee Protestant British armies over the papist French lands of Canada and the Midwest in French & Indian War?

Probably the same opinion we/they have about that one time a Pope dug up another dead Pope and held a trial after he had died to condemn him, AKA the Cadaver Synod.

A bunch of old queens fighting over the world's biggest packet of bologna.

[First American Empire]

What is the transgender community's opinion on the triumph of the Massachusetts Puritans over the despotic, crypto-Catholic rule of Edmund Andros in 1689? Furthermore, what lessons can this community draw upon from the conquest of the Yankee Protestant British armies over the papist French lands of Canada and the Midwest in French & Indian War?

I'm not British, French, or either type of Christian, so I don't care one way or the other.

[Bear Stearns]

What is the transgender community's opinion on the triumph of the Massachusetts Puritans over the despotic, crypto-Catholic rule of Edmund Andros in 1689? Furthermore, what lessons can this community draw upon from the conquest of the Yankee Protestant British armies over the papist French lands of Canada and the Midwest in French & Indian War?

I'm not British, French, or either type of Christian, so I don't care one way or the other.

But you are an American, no? If so, this is your history and heritage. This happened in the 13 Colonies.

[Grenartia]

I'm not British, French, or either type of Christian, so I don't care one way or the other.

But you are an American, no? If so, this is your history and heritage. This happened in the 13 Colonies.

Can we not do this totally random and unprovoked threadjack?

[The Rich Port]

But you are an American, no? If so, this is your history and heritage. This happened in the 13 Colonies.

Can we not do this totally random and unprovoked threadjack?

Well technically it's sort of related since Edward Andros was apparently a crossdresser, but he's not unique in that regard (petticoat parties were a favorite of many an English dandy).

But uh yeah, who gives a shit, Bear. Puritan New England is easily the most boring part of American history, thanks to the Puritans.

[Grenartia]

Can we not do this totally random and unprovoked threadjack?

Well technically it's sort of related since Edward Andros was apparently a crossdresser, but he's not unique in that regard (petticoat parties were a favorite of many an English dandy).

But uh yeah, who gives a shit, Bear. Puritan New England is easily the most boring part of American history, thanks to the Puritans.

Irony of ironies, they eventually developed into one of the most progressive denominations, the United Church of Christ, and they openly affirm LGBT+ people. For instance, they voted to recognize same-sex marriages back in 2005, and worked with the Unitarian Universalists to develop a sex-ed cirriculum (which is actually incredibly age appropriate for everyone) for both denominations that explicitly includes and affirms LGBT+ people.

[The Rich Port]

Well technically it's sort of related since Edward Andros was apparently a crossdresser, but he's not unique in that regard (petticoat parties were a favorite of many an English dandy).

But uh yeah, who gives a shit, Bear. Puritan New England is easily the most boring part of American history, thanks to the Puritans.

Irony of ironies, they eventually developed into one of the most progressive denominations, the United Church of Christ, and they openly affirm LGBT+ people. For instance, they voted to recognize same-sex marriages back in 2005, and worked with the Unitarian Universalists to develop a sex-ed cirriculum (which is actually incredibly age appropriate for everyone) for both denominations that explicitly includes and affirms LGBT+ people.

Talk about getting pranked.

Um... The... Most famous Puritan of the era is probably spinning in his grave so much he drilled his way back to Ye Olde Corporation of London.

[Hediacrana]

Can we not do this totally random and unprovoked threadjack?

Well technically it's sort of related since Edward Andros was apparently a crossdresser, but he's not unique in that regard (petticoat parties were a favorite of many an English dandy).

But uh yeah, who gives a shit, Bear. Puritan New England is easily the most boring part of American history, thanks to the Puritans.

And by contrast, Publick Universal Friend was pretty interesting.

[The Rich Port]

Well technically it's sort of related since Edward Andros was apparently a crossdresser, but he's not unique in that regard (petticoat parties were a favorite of many an English dandy).

But uh yeah, who gives a shit, Bear. Puritan New England is easily the most boring part of American history, thanks to the Puritans.

And by contrast, Publick Universal Friend was pretty interesting.

With a name like that I'm amazed this isn't an anime yet.

"Konichiwa, I am your Public Universal Friend! Goody Brother, shall we take a stroll, uwuu"

[The Blaatschapen]

And by contrast, Publick Universal Friend was pretty interesting.

With a name like that I'm amazed this isn't an anime yet.

"Konichiwa, I am your Public Universal Friend! Goody Brother, shall we take a stroll, uwuu"

Japan isn't fond of (earth)quakers

[The Rich Port]

With a name like that I'm amazed this isn't an anime yet.

"Konichiwa, I am your Public Universal Friend! Goody Brother, shall we take a stroll, uwuu"

Japan isn't fond of (earth)quakers

Kya, nyan, jo, jo

Am I an onii-boy

Or am I an onee-girl

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D6GcTaZUEAEi5qj.jpg

Huh. Someone make this a game show.

[First American Empire]

I'm not British, French, or either type of Christian, so I don't care one way or the other.

But you are an American, no? If so, this is your history and heritage. This happened in the 13 Colonies.

I'm on the opposite side of America from the Thirteen Colonies. I've never even been to New England. Also my ancestors didn't immigrate here until the 19th century, way after this happened. The French and Indian War is the east coast's history and other people's heritage, and I have no strong feelings one way or the other about it.

[Hediacrana]

But you are an American, no? If so, this is your history and heritage. This happened in the 13 Colonies.

I'm on the opposite side of America from the Thirteen Colonies. I've never even been to New England. Also my ancestors didn't immigrate here until the 19th century, way after this happened. The French and Indian War is the east coast's history and other people's heritage, and I have no strong feelings one way or the other about it.

As Gren said, let's try to stick to trans issues in this thread.

[Auzkhia]

Well technically it's sort of related since Edward Andros was apparently a crossdresser, but he's not unique in that regard (petticoat parties were a favorite of many an English dandy).

But uh yeah, who gives a shit, Bear. Puritan New England is easily the most boring part of American history, thanks to the Puritans.

Irony of ironies, they eventually developed into one of the most progressive denominations, the United Church of Christ, and they openly affirm LGBT+ people. For instance, they voted to recognize same-sex marriages back in 2005, and worked with the Unitarian Universalists to develop a sex-ed cirriculum (which is actually incredibly age appropriate for everyone) for both denominations that explicitly includes and affirms LGBT+ people.

The mainline protestants are alright, tbh.

Not sure if Quakers fit in that, but they're quite similar I guess, even though I'm from their colony.

I'm on the opposite side of America from the Thirteen Colonies. I've never even been to New England. Also my ancestors didn't immigrate here until the 19th century, way after this happened. The French and Indian War is the east coast's history and other people's heritage, and I have no strong feelings one way or the other about it.

As Gren said, let's try to stick to trans issues in this thread.

Indeed

To bring it back on the rails.

If we wanted to talk about history.

This Jewish poet from the south of France was probably trans, and she even wrote about gender dysphoria.

I remember hearing about them and other historical figures after seeing someone basically calling trans people a recent thing.