TDT 4: What the $#@! is a "womxn", anyways?

[Proctopeo]

here and here. now stop calling people child abusers just because they're not as transphobic as you.

One journal of waning credibility and a tabloid reporting on the same singular group, with studies that, as far as my digging can tell, have not once been verified by a secondary, unrelated group doing its own tests.
Color me very skeptical and color me still firmly against child abuse, even if it makes me Unwoke to be so.

[Vassenor]

here and here. now stop calling people child abusers just because they're not as transphobic as you.

One journal of waning credibility and a tabloid reporting on the same singular group, with studies that, as far as my digging can tell, have not once been verified by a secondary, unrelated group doing its own tests.
Color me very skeptical and color me still firmly against child abuse, even if it makes me Unwoke to be so.

So prove it's child abuse then. Because all you've done so far is "I don't think this is possible so it's not possible".

[Luminesa]

“Since the study’s launch, Olson has also heard from the parents of gender-nonconforming kids, who consistently defy gender stereotypes but have not socially transitioned. They might include boys who like wearing dresses or girls who play with trucks, but who have not, for example, changed the pronouns they use.“

Uhhhh I played with race-cars as a kid and wore pants a lot, did that mean I was a gender nonconforming kid? Pardon me for asking, but this term seems to be more and more vague the more I see it.

gender-nonconforming has always been a pretty broad term and has never meant the same thing as trans.

Well I never said it did. But...well, I guess it would be better with a Venn Diagram, in this case. Even so, it does cross into the path of what exactly marks a child as being trans. If I play with Hot Wheels all the time and wear pants, does this mean there’s a possibility that I may be trans?

[Proctopeo]

One journal of waning credibility and a tabloid reporting on the same singular group, with studies that, as far as my digging can tell, have not once been verified by a secondary, unrelated group doing its own tests.
Color me very skeptical and color me still firmly against child abuse, even if it makes me Unwoke to be so.

So prove it's child abuse then.

Exploiting a child for publicity and woke points while indoctrinating them politically definitely falls on the spectrum.

Because all you've done so far is "I don't think this is possible so it's not possible".

[Ifreann]

So how long have you spent observing this child and his parents interacting? How many interviews did you conduct? You must surely be intimately familiar with these people to be so confident that they are abusing their son.

"you must OBSERVE the child to PROVE it's ABUSE instead of just using your BRAIN, BIGOT!"
wew lad

Yes, you must have evidence to make a solid conclusion. I don't know why you thought that this would sound like I said something stupid.

[Proctopeo]

"you must OBSERVE the child to PROVE it's ABUSE instead of just using your BRAIN, BIGOT!"
wew lad

Yes, you must have evidence to make a solid conclusion. I don't know why you thought that this would sound like I said something stupid.

Some things can be known to be abusive without making extensive documentation of someone's life, you know.

[Hanafuridake]

I appreciated Elizabeth Warren answering a 9yo old trans boy on what she's planning to offer to trans children in American schools.

>9yo
>trans
Ah, I see, child abuse is on the menu today for the WokeTM crowd.

How is he being abused? He looks like a pretty ordinary healthy kid.

[Hanafuridake]

"you must OBSERVE the child to PROVE it's ABUSE instead of just using your BRAIN, BIGOT!"
wew lad

Yes, you must have evidence to make a solid conclusion. I don't know why you thought that this would sound like I said something stupid.

He's auditioning for the role of Ben Shapiro in a movie and has to get in character.

[Ifreann]

Yes, you must have evidence to make a solid conclusion. I don't know why you thought that this would sound like I said something stupid.

Some things can be known to be abusive without making extensive documentation of someone's life, you know.

So what thing do you know to be abusive, and what evidence lead you to that conclusion? Because on the face of it you seem to think that being trans is evidence of abuse and that's obviously absurd.

[Proctopeo]

Some things can be known to be abusive without making extensive documentation of someone's life, you know.

So what thing do you know to be abusive, and what evidence lead you to that conclusion? Because on the face of it you seem to think that being trans is evidence of abuse and that's obviously absurd.

A three- to five-year-old being made to be trans by his or her parents because they said something a couple of times, and then indoctrinated into continuing with it later on.
Which is the case here, if you've done your research. Which apparently only I have.

[Torrocca]

Yes, you must have evidence to make a solid conclusion. I don't know why you thought that this would sound like I said something stupid.

He's auditioning for the role of Ben Shapiro in a movie and has to get in character.

"9-Year-Old Transgendered Kid Gets DESTROYED By BEN SHAPIRO And He/Him/His EPIC FACTS And LOGIC Of NOT PURSUING EVIDENCE In Favor Of SIMPLY SHOUTING THAT THEY'RE BEING ABUSED"

[Iciaros]

So what thing do you know to be abusive, and what evidence lead you to that conclusion? Because on the face of it you seem to think that being trans is evidence of abuse and that's obviously absurd.

A three- to five-year-old being made to be trans by his or her parents because they said something a couple of times, and then indoctrinated into continuing with it later on.
Which is the case here, if you've done your research. Which apparently only I have.

Not that I inherently disbelieve your point, but as I understand it some of the people in this thread see gender as something that does not or has difficulty shifting in accordance with socialisation (instead being entirely or largely rooted in biology, neurology, or some other static thing), or at least being socialisation-immune past a certain age. A child being capable of being 'indoctrinated' into being trans would certainly suggest that socialisation shifting gender is possible. Would you mind offering your sources so I could have a quick sift?

[Luminesa]

"you must OBSERVE the child to PROVE it's ABUSE instead of just using your BRAIN, BIGOT!"
wew lad

Yes, you must have evidence to make a solid conclusion. I don't know why you thought that this would sound like I said something stupid.

I mean you don’t have to spend hours and hours observing someone to know they’ve been abused. Sometimes you do, sometimes you don’t. You watch Michael Jackson talk about his father on Oprah’s show for five minutes and yeah, you can tell he was abused. Don’t even have to conduct an interview, though Oprah is technically doing the interview for you anyway. And in many cases where a mandated reporter has to report a child is being abused, it is impossible to interview a parent without putting the child in more danger. So I don’t think it’s fair to say you HAVE to interview someone or you HAVE to know them intimately to know they’re being abused. Do I know entirely what’s going on in the case of this child? No. But as a mandated reporter, this suggestion would make it a lot harder for me to do my job.

[Ifreann]

So what thing do you know to be abusive, and what evidence lead you to that conclusion? Because on the face of it you seem to think that being trans is evidence of abuse and that's obviously absurd.

A three- to five-year-old being made to be trans by his or her parents because they said something a couple of times, and then indoctrinated into continuing with it later on.
Which is the case here,

We're talking about a nine year old boy.

if you've done your research. Which apparently only I have.

I ask you again, what research have you done into this child and his circumstances? Do you have evidence that he is being abused beyond the fact that he is trans?

[Auzkhia]

“Since the study’s launch, Olson has also heard from the parents of gender-nonconforming kids, who consistently defy gender stereotypes but have not socially transitioned. They might include boys who like wearing dresses or girls who play with trucks, but who have not, for example, changed the pronouns they use.“

Uhhhh I played with race-cars as a kid and wore pants a lot, did that mean I was a gender nonconforming kid? Pardon me for asking, but this term seems to be more and more vague the more I see it.

Expression and identity can differ, and expression is much, much harder to pin down.

Gender nonconformity is expression. Some trans people do use it to explore and question their identity, but being gnc and trans are separate things as they deal with two different things.

[Neutraligon]

You keep telling yourself that. Maybe it'll magically come true.

If we stand next to each other nude in front of a mirror, our anatomies will resemble one another. Now do tell how you "identify" as the fair sex? No matter how many times you claim as such, remember that the world don't move to the beat of your own drum.

The brain, and internal organs however may not. Just because something appears superficially like something else does not mean that the internals of tht things are not completely different.

[Cekoviu]

A three- to five-year-old being made to be trans by his or her parents because they said something a couple of times, and then indoctrinated into continuing with it later on.
Which is the case here, if you've done your research. Which apparently only I have.

Not that I inherently disbelieve your point, but as I understand it some of the people in this thread see gender as something that does not or has difficulty shifting in accordance with socialisation (instead being entirely or largely rooted in biology, neurology, or some other static thing), or at least being socialisation-immune past a certain age. A child being capable of being 'indoctrinated' into being trans would certainly suggest that socialisation shifting gender is possible. Would you mind offering your sources so I could have a quick sift?

Not necessarily - an essentialist view allows shifting identification, but not underlying factors that affect the actual gender of the person. It's not really different from a trans person changing from identifying as X gender to Y gender, except that the motivation is others rather than the self.

[Ifreann]

If we stand next to each other nude in front of a mirror, our anatomies will resemble one another. Now do tell how you "identify" as the fair sex? No matter how many times you claim as such, remember that the world don't move to the beat of your own drum.

The brain, and internal organs however may not. Just because something appears superficially like something else does not mean that the internals of tht things are not completely different.

Speak for yourself, I keep my brain in a jar in the fridge.

[Iciaros]

Not that I inherently disbelieve your point, but as I understand it some of the people in this thread see gender as something that does not or has difficulty shifting in accordance with socialisation (instead being entirely or largely rooted in biology, neurology, or some other static thing), or at least being socialisation-immune past a certain age. A child being capable of being 'indoctrinated' into being trans would certainly suggest that socialisation shifting gender is possible. Would you mind offering your sources so I could have a quick sift?

Not necessarily - an essentialist view allows shifting identification, but not underlying factors that affect the actual gender of the person. It's not really different from a trans person changing from identifying as X gender to Y gender, except that the motivation is others rather than the self.

I'm sorry, I'm not quite sure if I get it. My previous understanding was that one tends to identify with one's actual gender. In fact, up till now I thought that it's difficult to tell actual gender other than in terms of how the individual themself understood it, and thus the way that they identify. Is there another way to tell actual gender? Or maybe I'm misunderstanding you, and you're referring to misidentification, which would be sort of like a still in-the-egg thing?

I think I gave myself a mini-headache.

[Neutraligon]

The brain, and internal organs however may not. Just because something appears superficially like something else does not mean that the internals of tht things are not completely different.

Speak for yourself, I keep my brain in a jar in the fridge.

Does that make you brainless?

[Farnhamia]

Speak for yourself, I keep my brain in a jar in the fridge.

Does that make you brainless?

I keep thinking that makes him a Beatles lyric but ...

[Cekoviu]

Not necessarily - an essentialist view allows shifting identification, but not underlying factors that affect the actual gender of the person. It's not really different from a trans person changing from identifying as X gender to Y gender, except that the motivation is others rather than the self.

I'm sorry, I'm not quite sure if I get it. My previous understanding was that one tends to identify with one's actual gender. In fact, up till now I thought that it's difficult to tell actual gender other than in terms of how the individual themself understood it, and thus the way that they identify. Is there another way to tell actual gender? Or maybe I'm misunderstanding you, and you're referring to misidentification, which would be sort of like a still in-the-egg thing?

I think I gave myself a mini-headache.

Well, the issue is that it's impossible to actually detect gender at the moment, so there's no way to see if it's misidentification or not. The point is that there is an inherent gender, and someone can be pushed to identify contrary to that gender. That can be an egg situation or it can be pressure to be trans.
To put it another way, the variable exists but we don't know exactly where or what the value is.

[Mettaton-EX]

gender-nonconforming has always been a pretty broad term and has never meant the same thing as trans.

Well I never said it did. But...well, I guess it would be better with a Venn Diagram, in this case. Even so, it does cross into the path of what exactly marks a child as being trans. If I play with Hot Wheels all the time and wear pants, does this mean there’s a possibility that I may be trans?

the general thrust of the study is that gnc children who identify with the "opposite" gender tend to turn out to be trans, and gnc children who don't... don't, and that this holds true regardless of other factors like parenting.

[Telconi]

Well I never said it did. But...well, I guess it would be better with a Venn Diagram, in this case. Even so, it does cross into the path of what exactly marks a child as being trans. If I play with Hot Wheels all the time and wear pants, does this mean there’s a possibility that I may be trans?

the general thrust of the study is that gnc children who identify with the "opposite" gender tend to turn out to be trans, and gnc children who don't... don't, and that this holds true regardless of other factors like parenting.

I mean, what defines a child as GNC. The article literally mentions a girl playing with a truck, which seems awfully incidental for a diagnosis criteria.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

gender-nonconforming has always been a pretty broad term and has never meant the same thing as trans.

Well I never said it did. But...well, I guess it would be better with a Venn Diagram, in this case. Even so, it does cross into the path of what exactly marks a child as being trans. If I play with Hot Wheels all the time and wear pants, does this mean there’s a possibility that I may be trans?

I don’t recall toy preference as being considered a marker. If you’re interested as I know child development is something you care about as a teacher, I can dig up some info regarding markers that are considered for children who exhibit gender nonconforming.