TDT 4: What the $#@! is a "womxn", anyways?

[Cekoviu]

I think pretty much everybody is going to have initial attraction based on apparent sex (gender presentation), since they don't know what genitalia the other person has.

Gender presentation has little to do with apparent sex. Not that it's impossible to alter your apparent sex, but then you run back into the issue of you hiding your sex. Not you hiding your gender being what causes issues.

Definition I'm going off of for Gender Expression.

Gender expression (also called, "gender presentation") means how a person dresses, looks, and acts, in ways that might affect how other people view their gender. Someone who wears men's clothes and acts in a masculine way has a male gender expression. Someone who wears women's clothes and acts in a feminine way has a female gender expression. This is different from gender identity because people can choose to look or behave one way even if that is not how they feel inside. Sometimes people call this gender presentation or just presentation.

I meant to say "and" there, whoops.

I think pretty much everybody is going to have initial attraction based on apparent sex (gender presentation), since they don't know what genitalia the other person has.

Oh, I was referring to surface attraction as physical attraction rather than initial attraction. Personally I kind understand that, since (at least for me) when I get used to thinking of someone as a female, for instance, seeing male genitalia doesn't make me think 'guy' so much as 'girl with penis'. And vice-versa.

That's probably more true for romantic than sexual attraction.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Update on my friend (I think some of you know about her struggles): she’s in a new relationship and happy and has gone back to university full time. Her therapies (psychiatrically and HRT) are going well too. She’s considering SRS next year and her new partner supports her fully. I’m relieved and happy for her. So so happy. She deserves good things after the hell she went through.

[Hediacrana]

Update on my friend (I think some of you know about her struggles): she’s in a new relationship and happy and has gone back to university full time. Her therapies (psychiatrically and HRT) are going well too. She’s considering SRS next year and her new partner supports her fully. I’m relieved and happy for her. So so happy. She deserves good things after the hell she went through.

Awesome. Glad things seem to be looking up!

[Hediacrana]

I appreciated Elizabeth Warren answering a 9yo old trans boy on what she's planning to offer to trans children in American schools.

[Proctopeo]

I appreciated Elizabeth Warren answering a 9yo old trans boy on what she's planning to offer to trans children in American schools.

>9yo
>trans
Ah, I see, child abuse is on the menu today for the WokeTM crowd.

[Necroghastia]

I appreciated Elizabeth Warren answering a 9yo old trans boy on what she's planning to offer to trans children in American schools.

>9yo
>trans
Ah, I see, child abuse is on the menu today for the WokeTM crowd.

[Proctopeo]

>9yo
>trans
Ah, I see, child abuse is on the menu today for the WokeTM crowd.

I don't believe I have stuttered.

[Necroghastia]

I don't believe I have stuttered.

Then please, do feel free to elaborate on how allowing children to explore their identity is child abuse.

[Proctopeo]

I don't believe I have stuttered.

Then please, do feel free to elaborate on how allowing children to explore their identity is child abuse.

Something about your language suggests that you won't be open to an actual elaboration, but I will oblige regardless.

It's rarely the child's personal decision to "explore their identity", but the parent's. Especially when they're as young as five. Yes, five, that's when it started in this case. It shouldn't have to be said that five-year-olds, and three-year-olds for that matter (an age mentioned in the "open letter" from 2015), know pretty much nothing about themselves or the world, or what it means to be something.

[Cekoviu]

Then please, do feel free to elaborate on how allowing children to explore their identity is child abuse.

Something about your language suggests that you won't be open to an actual elaboration, but I will oblige regardless.

It's rarely the child's personal decision to "explore their identity", but the parent's. Especially when they're as young as five. Yes, five, that's when it started in this case. It shouldn't have to be said that five-year-olds, and three-year-olds for that matter (an age mentioned in the "open letter" from 2015), know pretty much nothing about themselves or the world, or what it means to be something.

Gender dysphoria routinely manifests in children who are figuring out what gender is. 5 is not at all implausible for someone to start figuring out that they're transgender.
Not that you care.

[Auzkhia]

I appreciated Elizabeth Warren answering a 9yo old trans boy on what she's planning to offer to trans children in American schools.

Gods, I quite like Warren, sometimes I debate about picking her over Bernie.

Then please, do feel free to elaborate on how allowing children to explore their identity is child abuse.

Something about your language suggests that you won't be open to an actual elaboration, but I will oblige regardless.

It's rarely the child's personal decision to "explore their identity", but the parent's. Especially when they're as young as five. Yes, five, that's when it started in this case. It shouldn't have to be said that five-year-olds, and three-year-olds for that matter (an age mentioned in the "open letter" from 2015), know pretty much nothing about themselves or the world, or what it means to be something.

Would a kid be too young to be cis? Why should that be the null hypothesis?

A lot of trans people end up reporting the Signs™ from their childhood that match up their current identity. I may be not be an expert on children, but I'm pretty sure letting a trans child wearing a gender affirming outfit, picking a new name and pronouns, etc isn't abusive.

[Ifreann]

Then please, do feel free to elaborate on how allowing children to explore their identity is child abuse.

Something about your language suggests that you won't be open to an actual elaboration, but I will oblige regardless.

It's rarely the child's personal decision to "explore their identity", but the parent's. Especially when they're as young as five. Yes, five, that's when it started in this case. It shouldn't have to be said that five-year-olds, and three-year-olds for that matter (an age mentioned in the "open letter" from 2015), know pretty much nothing about themselves or the world, or what it means to be something.

So how long have you spent observing this child and his parents interacting? How many interviews did you conduct? You must surely be intimately familiar with these people to be so confident that they are abusing their son.

[Northwestern Elizabeth]

I appreciated Elizabeth Warren answering a 9yo old trans boy on what she's planning to offer to trans children in American schools.

It's really fortunate to see someone running for president who's gonna try to offer extra protection to trans children in school. These kids have enough to deal with, knowing that a lot of the country hates them for something they have no control over, and it would be nice to have someone in office who went out of their way to not only protect these kids, but to celebrate them and make sure they know that they're normal kids and shouldn't feel apologetic for feeling the way that they naturally do.

[Cappuccina]

I appreciated Elizabeth Warren answering a 9yo old trans boy on what she's planning to offer to trans children in American schools.

It's really fortunate to see someone running for president who's gonna try to offer extra protection to trans children in school. These kids have enough to deal with, knowing that a lot of the country hates them for something they have no control over, and it would be nice to have someone in office who went out of their way to not only protect these kids, but to celebrate them and make sure they know that they're normal kids and shouldn't feel apologetic for feeling the way that they naturally do.

As if she'd actually do anything were she elected. Let's wait before we get all starry eyed over Pocahontas.

[Farnhamia]

It's really fortunate to see someone running for president who's gonna try to offer extra protection to trans children in school. These kids have enough to deal with, knowing that a lot of the country hates them for something they have no control over, and it would be nice to have someone in office who went out of their way to not only protect these kids, but to celebrate them and make sure they know that they're normal kids and shouldn't feel apologetic for feeling the way that they naturally do.

As if she'd actually do anything were she elected. Let's wait before we get all starry eyed over Pocahontas.

*** Warned for political nicknaming. ***

[Cappuccina]

Seems like I forgot about that rule, oh well.

[Grenartia]

I appreciated Elizabeth Warren answering a 9yo old trans boy on what she's planning to offer to trans children in American schools.

Gods, I quite like Warren, sometimes I debate about picking her over Bernie.

Something about your language suggests that you won't be open to an actual elaboration, but I will oblige regardless.

It's rarely the child's personal decision to "explore their identity", but the parent's. Especially when they're as young as five. Yes, five, that's when it started in this case. It shouldn't have to be said that five-year-olds, and three-year-olds for that matter (an age mentioned in the "open letter" from 2015), know pretty much nothing about themselves or the world, or what it means to be something.

Would a kid be too young to be cis? Why should that be the null hypothesis?

A lot of trans people end up reporting the Signs™ from their childhood that match up their current identity. I may be not be an expert on children, but I'm pretty sure letting a trans child wearing a gender affirming outfit, picking a new name and pronouns, etc isn't abusive.

I wish Liz and Bernie would be on the same ticket.

And another thing Proct conveniently fails to acknowledge, is the scientific community is in firm agreement that children as young as 3 or 4 can, in fact, know their gender identity.

[Auzkhia]

Gods, I quite like Warren, sometimes I debate about picking her over Bernie.

Would a kid be too young to be cis? Why should that be the null hypothesis?

A lot of trans people end up reporting the Signs™ from their childhood that match up their current identity. I may be not be an expert on children, but I'm pretty sure letting a trans child wearing a gender affirming outfit, picking a new name and pronouns, etc isn't abusive.

I wish Liz and Bernie would be on the same ticket.

And another thing Proct conveniently fails to acknowledge, is the scientific community is in firm agreement that children as young as 3 or 4 can, in fact, know their gender identity.

Definitely, they're the only candidates I like, everyone else can go home.

It's the same energy of "how do I explain this to my children" or "won't someone think of the children!" the same thing was said of gay people a few years ago. Transphobia in 2019 feels like the homophobia of 1999.

[Proctopeo]

Something about your language suggests that you won't be open to an actual elaboration, but I will oblige regardless.

It's rarely the child's personal decision to "explore their identity", but the parent's. Especially when they're as young as five. Yes, five, that's when it started in this case. It shouldn't have to be said that five-year-olds, and three-year-olds for that matter (an age mentioned in the "open letter" from 2015), know pretty much nothing about themselves or the world, or what it means to be something.

Gender dysphoria routinely manifests in children who are figuring out what gender is. 5 is not at all implausible for someone to start figuring out that they're transgender.

[citation needed]

Not that you care.

Something about your language suggests that you won't be open to an actual elaboration, but I will oblige regardless.

It's rarely the child's personal decision to "explore their identity", but the parent's. Especially when they're as young as five. Yes, five, that's when it started in this case. It shouldn't have to be said that five-year-olds, and three-year-olds for that matter (an age mentioned in the "open letter" from 2015), know pretty much nothing about themselves or the world, or what it means to be something.

Would a kid be too young to be cis? Why should that be the null hypothesis?

wOuLd A kId Be ToO yOuNg To Be CiS

A lot of trans people end up reporting the Signs™ from their childhood that match up their current identity. I may be not be an expert on children, but I'm pretty sure letting a trans child wearing a gender affirming outfit, picking a new name and pronouns, etc isn't abusive.

[x] to doubt

Something about your language suggests that you won't be open to an actual elaboration, but I will oblige regardless.

It's rarely the child's personal decision to "explore their identity", but the parent's. Especially when they're as young as five. Yes, five, that's when it started in this case. It shouldn't have to be said that five-year-olds, and three-year-olds for that matter (an age mentioned in the "open letter" from 2015), know pretty much nothing about themselves or the world, or what it means to be something.

So how long have you spent observing this child and his parents interacting? How many interviews did you conduct? You must surely be intimately familiar with these people to be so confident that they are abusing their son.

"you must OBSERVE the child to PROVE it's ABUSE instead of just using your BRAIN, BIGOT!"
wew lad

And another thing Proct conveniently fails to acknowledge, is the scientific community is in firm agreement that children as young as 3 or 4 can, in fact, know their gender identity.

[citation needed] here as well.

It's the same energy of "how do I explain this to my children" or "won't someone think of the children!" the same thing was said of gay people a few years ago. Transphobia in 2019 feels like the homophobia of 1999.

I see that opposing child abuse makes you a transphobe in CURRENT YEAR.
What a time to alive.

Though I do imagine, given previous incidents that won't be named, that child abuse isn't on the list of concerns for some of y'all, as long as it's Woke.

[Cekoviu]

Anybody have experience with combining Prometrium, spironolactone, and estradiol? My doctor suggested reducing the amount of spironolactone I take and adding some Prometrium, but I don't know if I should do that.

[Auzkhia]

Anybody have experience with combining Prometrium, spironolactone, and estradiol? My doctor suggested reducing the amount of spironolactone I take and adding some Prometrium, but I don't know if I should do that.

I'm taking that as well, albeit generic, not branded. I started it about a month ago. My spiro hasn't gone up since starting, but my E has threefold. My levels are good, I wonder what progesterone would do for that.

My doctor said progesterone may or may not help, nothing confirmed among endocrinologists yet, progesterone in feminizing HRT is anecdotal, I think it has mildly increased my libido and has gave a little growth spurt for breasts. It did make me really sleepy, so do take at night. I'm just doing 100mg mind you.

[Mettaton-EX]

Gender dysphoria routinely manifests in children who are figuring out what gender is. 5 is not at all implausible for someone to start figuring out that they're transgender.

[citation needed]

Not that you care.

Would a kid be too young to be cis? Why should that be the null hypothesis?

wOuLd A kId Be ToO yOuNg To Be CiS

A lot of trans people end up reporting the Signs™ from their childhood that match up their current identity. I may be not be an expert on children, but I'm pretty sure letting a trans child wearing a gender affirming outfit, picking a new name and pronouns, etc isn't abusive.

[x] to doubt

So how long have you spent observing this child and his parents interacting? How many interviews did you conduct? You must surely be intimately familiar with these people to be so confident that they are abusing their son.

"you must OBSERVE the child to PROVE it's ABUSE instead of just using your BRAIN, BIGOT!"
wew lad

And another thing Proct conveniently fails to acknowledge, is the scientific community is in firm agreement that children as young as 3 or 4 can, in fact, know their gender identity.

[citation needed] here as well.

It's the same energy of "how do I explain this to my children" or "won't someone think of the children!" the same thing was said of gay people a few years ago. Transphobia in 2019 feels like the homophobia of 1999.

I see that opposing child abuse makes you a transphobe in CURRENT YEAR.
What a time to alive.

Though I do imagine, given previous incidents that won't be named, that child abuse isn't on the list of concerns for some of y'all, as long as it's Woke.

here and here. now stop calling people child abusers just because they're not as transphobic as you.

[Luminesa]

“Since the study’s launch, Olson has also heard from the parents of gender-nonconforming kids, who consistently defy gender stereotypes but have not socially transitioned. They might include boys who like wearing dresses or girls who play with trucks, but who have not, for example, changed the pronouns they use.“

Uhhhh I played with race-cars as a kid and wore pants a lot, did that mean I was a gender nonconforming kid? Pardon me for asking, but this term seems to be more and more vague the more I see it.

[Grenartia]

“Since the study’s launch, Olson has also heard from the parents of gender-nonconforming kids, who consistently defy gender stereotypes but have not socially transitioned. They might include boys who like wearing dresses or girls who play with trucks, but who have not, for example, changed the pronouns they use.“

Uhhhh I played with race-cars as a kid and wore pants a lot, did that mean I was a gender nonconforming kid? Pardon me for asking, but this term seems to be more and more vague the more I see it.

Yes, gender-nonconformity covers cis people as well as trans people. I could make a big, complicated Venn Diagram about it, but I don't feel like it right now.

[Mettaton-EX]

“Since the study’s launch, Olson has also heard from the parents of gender-nonconforming kids, who consistently defy gender stereotypes but have not socially transitioned. They might include boys who like wearing dresses or girls who play with trucks, but who have not, for example, changed the pronouns they use.“

Uhhhh I played with race-cars as a kid and wore pants a lot, did that mean I was a gender nonconforming kid? Pardon me for asking, but this term seems to be more and more vague the more I see it.

gender-nonconforming has always been a pretty broad term and has never meant the same thing as trans.