TDT 4: What the $#@! is a "womxn", anyways?

[Proctopeo]

The irony doesn't invalidate my point.

No, but you screaming that the idea that Lily is trans is invalid specifically because it's primarily Westerners supporting that idea does invalidate your shitty point.

Not really, since my point is based on Japanese viewers.

Well, I did provide a video of my own that basically annihilates what you had, but if you want further proof, search "星川 リリィ" on Pixiv and see what things are tagged (it's largely otokonoko and other related tags). I take the interpretation of numerous Japanese artists over a couple idiots online, especially because the writers haven't said anything yet.

Oh, so you're going to disregard the dialogue that the writers actually wrote for the show itself that explicitly makes it clear that Lily identifies as a girl and that the others accept her as a girl

While it's been about seven months since I saw Episode 8, that's... not exactly what happened. I'll definitely review it, but that's not what happened. It was actually really ambiguous IIRC, hence the firestorm.

because a couple idiots online decided to misgender her in their art?

If by "a couple idiots online" you mean "basically every Japanese artist after Episode 8 aired", and by "misgender" you mean "operate on the more likely interpretation", then yes.

That's certainly an interesting hill for you to choose to die on in the TDT of all places.

This is such a fucking stupid argument anyway. The only people supporting the argument are, well, idiots with a track record of being wrong and trying to claim that effeminate male characters are ackshully trans women. There's no reason to believe it's different in this case, and as the interpretation of people in the original cultural context is that Lily Hoshikawa is a boy, we should operate with that.

[Luminesa]

You also used a random Tumblr person’s page. And seriously. Do you want to be represented as someone who dies from a massive stress reaction (played somewhat for laughs) from pulling a hair off your chin?

I'm fine with the representation primarily because the show, for the most part, addresses it tactfully with the character being openly accepted as a girl by the rest of the group after she explicitly makes it clear she only identifies as a girl.

This isn’t a hill that needs to be died on. And Procto did post his own video. And mentioned that (something I did not know) the writers have been mum on the issue. Which I guess is odd, but not any odder than trying to get the writers of Evangelion to explain why everyone turned to Tang in Episode 26.

You're right that it's not a hill that needs to be one to die on, which is why it's stupid that Proct's deliberately choosing to go against what the writers of the show actually wrote in terms of dialogue and story to scream about how this character who's explicitly shown to be trans somehow actually isn't.

To me-and this is from my very limited understanding of the show-what I saw and read from the Tumblr page made it seem like Lily struggled with reconciling her child idol persona with her real-life self. Think Shirley Temple. Shirley Temple being cute and 6 and curly-headed and able to dance. People go, “Dawwwwwww!” But what happens when a child-star hits puberty? Lot of panic and confusion. You don’t get to stay so cute and precious like you were when you were 6, and not every child-star grows-up to have the continual success of a Michael Jackson or a Selena Gomez or a Ron Howard. As a zombie, I would guess, she could be Lily forever because she never will grow-up. She’ll never have to go through puberty. She’ll always be the cute idol she wants to be. Could she be trans? Sure. But that’s just my uneducated take.

[Torrocca]

No, but you screaming that the idea that Lily is trans is invalid specifically because it's primarily Westerners supporting that idea does invalidate your shitty point.

Not really, since my point is based on Japanese viewers.

Which isn't saying much if you're only going off blatantly false artistic interpretations of the character.

Oh, so you're going to disregard the dialogue that the writers actually wrote for the show itself that explicitly makes it clear that Lily identifies as a girl and that the others accept her as a girl

While it's been about seven months since I saw Episode 8, that's... not exactly what happened. I'll definitely review it, but that's not what happened.

It's explicitly what happened.

because a couple idiots online decided to misgender her in their art?

If by "a couple idiots online" you mean "basically every Japanese artist after Episode 8 aired", and by "misgender" you mean "operate on the more likely interpretation", then yes.[/quote]

"It's okay for me to agree with blatant transphobia if I plug my ears and pretend that it's the valid interpretation of something!!1!"

10/10 as always.

[Proctopeo]

Not really, since my point is based on Japanese viewers.

Which isn't saying much if you're only going off blatantly false artistic interpretations of the character.

It's true, though there's no blatant interpretation here. The entire show is actually really ambiguous about the whole ordeal, if you actually watched it.
""""Blatantly false"""" is a fucking riot given how wrong your position is.

While it's been about seven months since I saw Episode 8, that's... not exactly what happened. I'll definitely review it, but that's not what happened.

It's explicitly what happened.

Nope.

If by "a couple idiots online" you mean "basically every Japanese artist after Episode 8 aired", and by "misgender" you mean "operate on the more likely interpretation", then yes.

"It's okay for me to agree with blatant transphobia if I plug my ears and pretend that it's the valid interpretation of something!!1!"

10/10 as always.

It is though, you're pretending she's trans because some jagoff on Youtube told you to and acting like it's the valid interpretation.
Your utter lack of self-awareness has no charm as always smh

Anyway, your incredibly defensive responses betray your lack of understanding.
Case in point, Lily Hoshikawa is not trans, though from certain angles (and with some cherrypicking) she does look that way. This argument is over, go and parrot lies about another character now.

[Torrocca]

Which isn't saying much if you're only going off blatantly false artistic interpretations of the character.

It's true, though there's no blatant interpretation here. The entire show is actually really ambiguous about the whole ordeal, if you actually watched it.
""""Blatantly false"""" is a fucking riot given how wrong your position is.

Hmm, let's see...

Lily:

• Openly identifies as a girl
• Exclusively uses the name Lily
• Explicitly points out (timestamp 12:09 in the episode) that she has a deadname which she dropped
• Experienced mental shock from outright gender dysphoria because of the appearance of facial hair
• Literally says in the same episode in a group discussion that she's still Lily and always will be Lily, which blatantly shows her foregoing any and all identification as a boy
• Doubles down and reemphasizes that same point about a minute later (at 13:30)
• Literally the entire group accepts her as a girl in the very next scene

Yeah, chief, I'm gonna go with a big, fat "you're fucking wrong" here.

[Paleoconservative Citizens]

i mean veterans only get a day.

The difference being no one expects veterans to disappear out of society after Veteran's Day.

To be fair nobody against LGBTQ+ actually respects LGBTQ+ people during pride month.

So this analogy is wrong, because Anti-LGBTQ+ want them gone all year long.

This isn't hate BTW, just stating the analogy is wrong.

[Vassenor]

The difference being no one expects veterans to disappear out of society after Veteran's Day.

To be fair nobody against LGBTQ+ actually respects LGBTQ+ people during pride month.

So this analogy is wrong, because Anti-LGBTQ+ want them gone all year long.

This isn't hate BTW, just stating the analogy is wrong.

So who's hating on veterans here? Because otherwise your correction makes no sense.

[Paleoconservative Citizens]

To be fair nobody against LGBTQ+ actually respects LGBTQ+ people during pride month.

So this analogy is wrong, because Anti-LGBTQ+ want them gone all year long.

This isn't hate BTW, just stating the analogy is wrong.

So who's hating on veterans here? Because otherwise your correction makes no sense.

They said no expects veterans to disappear after veterans day, so pretty much everyone loves veterans on veterans day. This is not so with LGBTQ+, as haters don't simply celebrate pride month and go back to hating.

In a simpler term, haters don't love LGBTQ+ during Pride Month, and veteran haters don't love veterans during veterans day. This is saying that haters love them during pride month and then afterwards hate them, which isn't the case.

I explained best as I could.

This explanation is horrible though

[Nakena]

So who's hating on veterans here? Because otherwise your correction makes no sense.

They said no expects veterans to disappear after veterans day, so pretty much everyone loves veterans on veterans day. This is not so with LGBTQ+, as haters don't simply celebrate pride month and go back to hating.

In a simpler term, haters don't love LGBTQ+ during Pride Month, and veteran haters don't love veterans during veterans day. This is saying that haters love them during pride month and then afterwards hate them, which isn't the case.

I explained best as I could.

This explanation is horrible though

The modified rainbow flags were cool though.

[Vassenor]

So who's hating on veterans here? Because otherwise your correction makes no sense.

They said no expects veterans to disappear after veterans day, so pretty much everyone loves veterans on veterans day. This is not so with LGBTQ+, as haters don't simply celebrate pride month and go back to hating.

In a simpler term, haters don't love LGBTQ+ during Pride Month, and veteran haters don't love veterans during veterans day. This is saying that haters love them during pride month and then afterwards hate them, which isn't the case.

I explained best as I could.

This explanation is horrible though

...Why are you referring to me in the third person when talking to me?

[Dumb Ideologies]

They said no expects veterans to disappear after veterans day, so pretty much everyone loves veterans on veterans day. This is not so with LGBTQ+, as haters don't simply celebrate pride month and go back to hating.

In a simpler term, haters don't love LGBTQ+ during Pride Month, and veteran haters don't love veterans during veterans day. This is saying that haters love them during pride month and then afterwards hate them, which isn't the case.

I explained best as I could.

This explanation is horrible though

The modified rainbow flags were cool though.

Some were superior to others, of course.

[Nakena]

The modified rainbow flags were cool though.

Some were superior to others, of course.

This was one of the best Cekoviu created this when I suggested to make one with a flame in order to celebrate wrath month

[Dumb Ideologies]

Some were superior to others, of course.

This was one of the best Cekoviu created this when I suggested to make one with a flame in order to celebrate wrath month

Pride burning is a delightfully ambiguous message fit for the whole ideological family.

[Nakena]

This was one of the best Cekoviu created this when I suggested to make one with a flame in order to celebrate wrath month

Pride burning is a delightfully ambiguous message fit for the whole ideological family.

An interesting interpretation. That thought didn crossed my mind before.

What do you think so far of the ideological family?

[Cekoviu]

Some were superior to others, of course.

This was one of the best Cekoviu created this when I suggested to make one with a flame in order to celebrate wrath month

[Dumb Ideologies]

Pride burning is a delightfully ambiguous message fit for the whole ideological family.

An interesting interpretation. That thought didn crossed my mind before.

What do you think so far of the ideological family?

An odd hybrid of buddy comedy and gritty mafia flick.

[Paleoconservative Citizens]

They said no expects veterans to disappear after veterans day, so pretty much everyone loves veterans on veterans day. This is not so with LGBTQ+, as haters don't simply celebrate pride month and go back to hating.

In a simpler term, haters don't love LGBTQ+ during Pride Month, and veteran haters don't love veterans during veterans day. This is saying that haters love them during pride month and then afterwards hate them, which isn't the case.

I explained best as I could.

This explanation is horrible though

...Why are you referring to me in the third person when talking to me?

Oh hell I forgot you were the one who wrote it...

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

An interesting interpretation. That thought didn crossed my mind before.

What do you think so far of the ideological family?

An odd hybrid of buddy comedy and gritty mafia flick.

Sounds about right.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

I was recently watching a video depicting the transition journey of a transgender man. He was talking about breast removal and SRS, as well as some of the questions he still gets from people, curious about his experience. One of the questions struck me. He has been asked if he was a pretty girl pre-transition. This made me pensive and I wanted to ask, for those of you who are mid or far along on your transition, or for those wishing to weigh in, if you have ever got people asking you something like this and what was your reaction (real or hypothetical in case this is not something you’ve experienced)?

[Cekoviu]

I was recently watching a video depicting the transition journey of a transgender man. He was talking about breast removal and SRS, as well as some of the questions he still gets from people, curious about his experience. One of the questions struck me. He has been asked if he was a pretty girl pre-transition. This made me pensive and I wanted to ask, for those of you who are mid or far along on your transition, or for those wishing to weigh in, if you have ever got people asking you something like this and what was your reaction (real or hypothetical in case this is not something you’ve experienced)?

I'm not openly trans except in the specifically LGBT spaces I go to, so I haven't had much opportunity for that to be said to me. I'd probably be visibly taken aback, but I'd likely just answer it with "no" because that's the truth.

[The New California Republic]

I was recently watching a video depicting the transition journey of a transgender man. He was talking about breast removal and SRS, as well as some of the questions he still gets from people, curious about his experience. One of the questions struck me. He has been asked if he was a pretty girl pre-transition. This made me pensive and I wanted to ask, for those of you who are mid or far along on your transition, or for those wishing to weigh in, if you have ever got people asking you something like this and what was your reaction (real or hypothetical in case this is not something you’ve experienced)?

I don't see why that kind of question needs to be asked. It just seems like a really odd thing to ask.

[Esheaun Stroakuss]

After months away from Nationstates, I have come to the conclusion that trans people deserve more respect both on and offline.

[Cekoviu]

After months away from Nationstates, I have come to the conclusion that trans people deserve more respect both on and offline.

I don't really remember interacting with you before. Were you transphobic then or are you just saying trans people need more respect in general?

[Esheaun Stroakuss]

The latter. I have never been transphobic.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

I was recently watching a video depicting the transition journey of a transgender man. He was talking about breast removal and SRS, as well as some of the questions he still gets from people, curious about his experience. One of the questions struck me. He has been asked if he was a pretty girl pre-transition. This made me pensive and I wanted to ask, for those of you who are mid or far along on your transition, or for those wishing to weigh in, if you have ever got people asking you something like this and what was your reaction (real or hypothetical in case this is not something you’ve experienced)?

I'm not openly trans except in the specifically LGBT spaces I go to, so I haven't had much opportunity for that to be said to me. I'd probably be visibly taken aback, but I'd likely just answer it with "no" because that's the truth.

He was taken aback. I honestly don’t know why it would matter. In the end, you’re not that person anymore. He said that it wasn’t a denial of his past but rather that it doesn’t matter for his present or future self.