TDT 4: What the $#@! is a "womxn", anyways?

[Magocratic Aidonaia]

I'm set on the idea that there should be a scientific basis.

There is no reason I have to describe myself as a masculine binary when I’m not, which is what the typical western cultural terms usually denote. Therefore I often use the term genderqueer. If you don’t like nonbinary terms you’re welcome to try and come up with some other ones.

[Magocratic Aidonaia]

One sad truth about gender dysphoria, being trans etc. is that it's incredibly politicised now. There is a very wide range of viewpoints on how trans works. Some support antitransmedicalism, some support transmedicalism, some support conservatism and regressivism. It's hard to see which ones are true. The best thing to do is to work on depoliticising transgender people.

What?

[Necroghastia]

Gotta say, I love the wording of "antitransmedicalism," as though transmedicalism is the default state of affairs.

[Saciu]

I like scientific evidence. That's not something that should be judged so negatively.

[Saciu]

Gotta say, I love the wording of "antitransmedicalism," as though transmedicalism is the default state of affairs.

Do you have a better, unbiased word?

[Cappuccina]

Different cultures having different views doesn't make something incorrect.

I’m allowed to not be a transwoman or hardline male. My gender actually makes more sense than that of binary people, who for whatever reason are confined.

How does your gender, make more sense?

I'm set on the idea that there should be a scientific basis.

And there we go with the essentialism again.

What's the issue with that? Why should non-binaryism be taken as a fact without evidence?

[Necroghastia]

I’m allowed to not be a transwoman or hardline male. My gender actually makes more sense than that of binary people, who for whatever reason are confined.

How does your gender, make more sense?

And there we go with the essentialism again.

What's the issue with that? Why should non-binaryism be taken as a fact without evidence?

since when was "non-binary" an ideology lmao

[Magocratic Aidonaia]

I like scientific evidence. That's not something that should be judged so negatively.

I don’t think you need medical evidence to accept that someone who is bi/gay might not be purely masculine or experience themselves in purely male terms.

[Saciu]

How does your gender, make more sense?



What's the issue with that? Why should non-binaryism be taken as a fact without evidence?

since when was "non-binary" an ideology lmao

They're not saying it is. How are they saying that it is?

[Cappuccina]

How does your gender, make more sense?



What's the issue with that? Why should non-binaryism be taken as a fact without evidence?

since when was "non-binary" an ideology lmao

It is, whether proponents realize it or not. They're essentially proposing that gender itself is nothing more than something you can assume on a whim (genderfluidity is an example of this) and isn't something innate to an individual. As I've explained numerous times, if that's to be taken as fact, the entire notion of transness is moot. You can't be trans anything if there is no binary to begin with and no normative gender to base a binary off of.

[Magocratic Aidonaia]

It is, whether proponents realize it or not. They're essentially proposing that gender itself is nothing more than something you can assume on a whim (genderfluidity is an example of this) and isn't something innate to an individual.

I never claimed that my gender is not innate. I explored and uncovered it, I did not assume it.

[Cappuccina]

It is, whether proponents realize it or not. They're essentially proposing that gender itself is nothing more than something you can assume on a whim (genderfluidity is an example of this) and isn't something innate to an individual.

I never claimed that my gender is not innate. I explored and uncovered it, I did not assume it.

If I may ask, what do you identify as?

[Necroghastia]

since when was "non-binary" an ideology lmao

It is, whether proponents realize it or not. They're essentially proposing that gender itself is nothing more than something you can assume on a whim (genderfluidity is an example of this) and isn't something innate to an individual. As I've explained numerous times, if that's to be taken as fact, the entire notion of transness is moot. You can't be trans anything if there is no binary to begin with and no normative gender to base a binary off of.

Nah. You're fundamentally misunderstanding how gender works. How does anyone realize they're trans if they cannot feel that they are? I don't recall the Trans Fairy visiting me with a little "Guess what, you're trans!" card. And genderfluidity is not what you seem to think it is - every genderfluid person I've met has not been able to control what gender they are at a given moment. Of course you can be trans without a binary - you just need to not identify with the gender you were assigned at birth.

[Proctopeo]

Stef really shouldn't have tried to defend one certain preteen drag queen. That's just opening yourself up to all kinds of accusations. Though the most accurate accusation would be "probably-unknowing enabler", not "pedophile".

As for Saciu, eh, she's being more respectful than certain regulars. She just has opinions you don't like, is all.

But when it's someone having opinions you don't like it's OK to destroy them, apparently.

We know you think that, but your personal hypocrisy isn't relevant here, Vass.

Gotta say, I love the wording of "antitransmedicalism," as though transmedicalism is the default state of affairs.

The other option is even more biased, so let's not use it. Not really any further options.

You could try and show why I'm wrong instead of constantly going "bUt fAlLaCy".

For a productive conversation to be remotely possible, you'd first have to figure out how to articulate something other than a version of 'I like my tribe better than your tribe.' I'll wait.

I already did, not my fault you can't read it in any other way than "you tribe bad, me tribe good"... even though that's not close to what I was saying.

We'll have to disagree on whose fault that is. In the meantime, you can't expect the flaws in your posts to not to be called out for what they are.

And to you, the same.

[Hediacrana]

since when was "non-binary" an ideology lmao

It is, whether proponents realize it or not. They're essentially proposing that gender itself is nothing more than something you can assume on a whim (genderfluidity is an example of this) and isn't something innate to an individual. As I've explained numerous times, if that's to be taken as fact, the entire notion of transness is moot. You can't be trans anything if there is no binary to begin with and no normative gender to base a binary off of.

For fairness, maybe don't present those who advocate for the validity of nonbinary genders as having a hivemind. It's true that there are nonbinary people who strongly emphasize performativity, but others are more interested in possible physical causes (the brain, for instance), and many more say it's probably a big mix of those and other factors.

[Dumb Ideologies]

Christ this thread is a heck of a point-scoring knuckle-dragging bitchfight right now.

[Magocratic Aidonaia]

If I may ask, what do you identify as?

Baseline male genderqueer/genderfluid. Or “enby”.

[Cappuccina]

It is, whether proponents realize it or not. They're essentially proposing that gender itself is nothing more than something you can assume on a whim (genderfluidity is an example of this) and isn't something innate to an individual. As I've explained numerous times, if that's to be taken as fact, the entire notion of transness is moot. You can't be trans anything if there is no binary to begin with and no normative gender to base a binary off of.

Nah. You're fundamentally misunderstanding how gender works. How does anyone realize they're trans if they cannot feel that they are? I don't recall the Trans Fairy visiting me with a little "Guess what, you're trans!" card. And genderfluidity is not what you seem to think it is - every genderfluid person I've met has not been able to control what gender they are at a given moment. Of course you can be trans without a binary - you just need to not identify with the gender you were assigned at birth.

I'm very aware of how one realizes their gender, I'm trans as well, and realized that nearly a decade ago.

I'm quite aware of how genderfluidity supposedly works, and it is the most ridiculous topic within the trans community. Genderfluidity has more in common with multiple personality disorders than gender dysphoria, how TF do they suddenly shift genders and how do they realize this? Oh if feel like a woman when I wake up, then like a man when I'm hitting the sack? GTFO, lol.

[Necroghastia]

Nah. You're fundamentally misunderstanding how gender works. How does anyone realize they're trans if they cannot feel that they are? I don't recall the Trans Fairy visiting me with a little "Guess what, you're trans!" card. And genderfluidity is not what you seem to think it is - every genderfluid person I've met has not been able to control what gender they are at a given moment. Of course you can be trans without a binary - you just need to not identify with the gender you were assigned at birth.

I'm very aware of how one realizes their gender, I'm trans as well, and realized that nearly a decade ago.

I'm quite aware of how genderfluidity supposedly works, and it is the most ridiculous topic within the trans community. Genderfluidity has more in common with multiple personality disorders than gender dysphoria, how TF do they suddenly shift genders and how do they realize this? Oh if feel like a woman when I wake up, then like a man when I'm hitting the sack? GTFO, lol.

Ridicule does not an invalidation make.

[Magocratic Aidonaia]

I'm quite aware of how genderfluidity supposedly works, and it is the most ridiculous topic within the trans community. Genderfluidity has more in common with multiple personality disorders than gender dysphoria, how TF do they suddenly shift genders and how do they realize this? Oh if feel like a woman when I wake up, then like a man when I'm hitting the sack? GTFO, lol.

I don’t shift, I just feel and express differently. It is not that radical for me.

[Nakena]

I'm quite aware of how genderfluidity supposedly works, and it is the most ridiculous topic within the trans community. Genderfluidity has more in common with multiple personality disorders than gender dysphoria, how TF do they suddenly shift genders and how do they realize this? Oh if feel like a woman when I wake up, then like a man when I'm hitting the sack? GTFO, lol.

I don’t shift, I just feel and express differently. It is not that radical for me.

For some people though it has to be radical, anal and total.

Rigidly and hard worldviews.

The harder the better.

[Saciu]

To me, it seems that genderfluidity happens when people mistake personality and feeling for gender. It doesn't seem logical for gender to suddenly change like that. I'd love scientific evidence on the contrary.

[Threlizdun]

Nah. You're fundamentally misunderstanding how gender works. How does anyone realize they're trans if they cannot feel that they are? I don't recall the Trans Fairy visiting me with a little "Guess what, you're trans!" card. And genderfluidity is not what you seem to think it is - every genderfluid person I've met has not been able to control what gender they are at a given moment. Of course you can be trans without a binary - you just need to not identify with the gender you were assigned at birth.

I'm very aware of how one realizes their gender, I'm trans as well, and realized that nearly a decade ago.

I'm quite aware of how genderfluidity supposedly works, and it is the most ridiculous topic within the trans community. Genderfluidity has more in common with multiple personality disorders than gender dysphoria, how TF do they suddenly shift genders and how do they realize this? Oh if feel like a woman when I wake up, then like a man when I'm hitting the sack? GTFO, lol.

Gender honestly doesn't really make any sense at all without the social context it resides within. What would it mean to be a man without women? Why is there little in the way of a universal consensus across cultures on what define masculine, feminine, or other gendered behavior? Gender is socially constructed but may be individually determined as each person finds their place in relation to it. That position is in constant flux. You are not the same person today that you were yesterday. You've had different experiences. You may get a different job, move somewhere new, change religions, fall in love. Who we are is always changing.

We already know that sexuality can change over one's lifetime. Sexuality tends to have changed in some capacity for most people I know who have transitioned. It can be hormonal shifts, it can be different life experiences, encountering something that awakens something inside of you weren't aware of, or comfort in a new body allowing you to experiment more with your sexuality. Gender can likewise change, especially for people who at most times feel as if they are somewhere between or outside male and female.

[Magocratic Aidonaia]

To me, it seems that genderfluidity happens when people mistake personality and feeling for gender. It doesn't seem logical for gender to suddenly change like that. I'd love scientific evidence on the contrary.

If you’re defining gender in terms of masculinity and femininity, and feeling male or female, it really isn’t that hard for me to feel more masculine or feminine, and feeling female is just at the far end of the spectrum. I usually express feminine when I am talking to other people.

[Nakena]

Gender honestly doesn't really make any sense at all without the social context it resides within. What would it mean to be a man without women? Why is there little in the way of a universal consensus across cultures on what define masculine, feminine, or other gendered behavior? Gender is socially constructed but may be individually determined as each person finds their place in relation to it. That position is in constant flux. You are not the same person today that you were yesterday. You've had different experiences. You may get a different job, move somewhere new, change religions, fall in love. Who we are is always changing.

We already know that sexuality can change over one's lifetime. Sexuality tends to have changed in some capacity for most people I know who have transitioned. It can be hormonal shifts, it can be different life experiences, encountering something that awakens something inside of you weren't aware of, or comfort in a new body allowing you to experiment more with your sexuality. Gender can likewise change, especially for people who at most times feel as if they are somewhere between or outside male and female.

I agree.

Thats what quite close to what I said a couple of pages ago, unfortunatly it isnt a popular viewpoint and people stick rather to acroym throwing.