TDT 4: What the $#@! is a "womxn", anyways?

[Northern Davincia]

Wanting people to exist does not mean they can do as they please. Otherwise, sin would not exist as a concept. Free will simply gives us the ability to make right and wrong choices.
It just so happens that making wrong choices, in the Christian context, is a very grave matter.

And yet the Vatican would seek to deny that free will.

No, it's simply informing the faithful of the stance it has always had on the subject.

[Necroghastia]

And yet the Vatican would seek to deny that free will.

No, it's simply informing the faithful of the stance it has always had on the subject.

Performing SRS on an unconsenting infant is most certainly a denial of free will.

[Northern Davincia]

No, it's simply informing the faithful of the stance it has always had on the subject.

Performing SRS on an unconsenting infant is most certainly a denial of free will.

By that logic, so are vaccines. The infant cannot utilize free will, or even perceive it, in the same way adults can.

[Torrocca]

You know, this argument falls apart when we talk about intersex people. How is treating them like abnormalities for physical characteristics any different from racism or sexism?

Because race and sex are not abnormalities, they're quite normal. Being born with an extra arm is an abnormality, but removing it is not an act of malice.

Y'know, to be quite frank here, if the infallible Abrahamic God's interpretation of intersex people that God created is that they should be forced to undergo unwanted surgeries at the behest of a human institution and of LGBTQ+ people that God created is that we'll be burning in hell as sinners or whatever, then that God can really go fuck itself right the fuck on away from humanity, and so too can the Vatican.

[Nakena]

Because race and sex are not abnormalities, they're quite normal. Being born with an extra arm is an abnormality, but removing it is not an act of malice.

Y'know, to be quite frank here, if the infallible Abrahamic God's interpretation of intersex people is that they should be forced to undergo unwanted surgeries at the behest of a human institution and of LGBTQ+ people is that we'll be burning in hell as sinners or whatever, then that God can really go fuck itself right the fuck on away from humanity, and so too can the Vatican.

For once we agree. Fuck YAWEH worship.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

This question is tangentially related to the ‘intersex children’ line of argument. Bear with me so I can explain my question. I am currently family planning with my husband. If I were to have a child and they were intersex what I’d do would be put them in blockers as soon as convenient, and as soon as they turn around 15-16 years of age, I’d ask about identity, how they feel and then start HRT depending on their determination. Is this a sound way to proceed? What would you do different? Did I miss something? Thoughts?

[Hanafuridake]

Performing SRS on an unconsenting infant is most certainly a denial of free will.

By that logic, so are vaccines. The infant cannot utilize free will, or even perceive it, in the same way adults can.

The difference being that a vaccine is used to prevent someone from catching or spreading dangerous diseases. Most intersex organizations aren't opposed to surgery when performed to save a child's life.

[Necroghastia]

Performing SRS on an unconsenting infant is most certainly a denial of free will.

By that logic, so are vaccines. The infant cannot utilize free will, or even perceive it, in the same way adults can.

If as an adult they wish to undergo SRS, that should be their right. I'm not going to try to do a "WELLLL that's DIFFERENT" argument here about vaccines because I'm not the one who is asserting the existence of a benevolent and infallible god.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

Why would God intend go make LGBT people if they're not allowed to be happy? That seems like a dick move.

That's a rather narrow view of happiness. Besides, the Christian lifestyle is, ideally, one of restraint.

You know, this argument falls apart when we talk about intersex people. How is treating them like abnormalities for physical characteristics any different from racism or sexism?

Because race and sex are not abnormalities, they're quite normal. Being born with an extra arm is an abnormality, but removing it is not an act of malice.

Not being able to marry who you love or be comfortable in your own body is much more than a narrow threat to your happiness.

[Northern Davincia]

Because race and sex are not abnormalities, they're quite normal. Being born with an extra arm is an abnormality, but removing it is not an act of malice.

Y'know, to be quite frank here, if the infallible Abrahamic God's interpretation of intersex people that God created is that they should be forced to undergo unwanted surgeries at the behest of a human institution and of LGBTQ+ people that God created is that we'll be burning in hell as sinners or whatever, then that God can really go fuck itself right the fuck on away from humanity, and so too can the Vatican.

It is your choice to think so, but I am only here to clarify the Vatican's viewpoint.

[Torrocca]

Y'know, to be quite frank here, if the infallible Abrahamic God's interpretation of intersex people that God created is that they should be forced to undergo unwanted surgeries at the behest of a human institution and of LGBTQ+ people that God created is that we'll be burning in hell as sinners or whatever, then that God can really go fuck itself right the fuck on away from humanity, and so too can the Vatican.

It is your choice to think so, but I am only here to clarify the Vatican's viewpoint.

And it's pretty clear that that viewpoint's morally fucked up and completely wrong according to the interpretation of God being infallible, since there's no justifiable argument neither you nor the Catholic Church can make that reconciles that fact with this shitty idea you're peddling that God created certain humans to be forced to live torturous lives or to be cursed to damnation from their birth.

[Northern Davincia]

By that logic, so are vaccines. The infant cannot utilize free will, or even perceive it, in the same way adults can.

The difference being that a vaccine is used to prevent someone from catching or spreading dangerous diseases. Most intersex organizations aren't opposed to surgery when performed to save a child's life.

And in this instance, surgery would be done for the sake of easing into society, like removing an unneeded extra limb.

By that logic, so are vaccines. The infant cannot utilize free will, or even perceive it, in the same way adults can.

If as an adult they wish to undergo SRS, that should be their right. I'm not going to try to do a "WELLLL that's DIFFERENT" argument here about vaccines because I'm not the one who is asserting the existence of a benevolent and infallible god.

I'm of the opinion that it should be the parent's right to decide.

That's a rather narrow view of happiness. Besides, the Christian lifestyle is, ideally, one of restraint.

Because race and sex are not abnormalities, they're quite normal. Being born with an extra arm is an abnormality, but removing it is not an act of malice.

Not being able to marry who you love or be comfortable in your own body is much more than a narrow threat to your happiness.

Considering that vows of poverty are deemed noble in Christianity, earthly happiness is not worth pursuing as a be-all-end-all goal.

[Cekoviu]

The difference being that a vaccine is used to prevent someone from catching or spreading dangerous diseases. Most intersex organizations aren't opposed to surgery when performed to save a child's life.

And in this instance, surgery would be done for the sake of easing into society, like removing an unneeded extra limb.

Being intersex has zero social effect unless you live in a nudist colony.

[Galloism]

And in this instance, surgery would be done for the sake of easing into society, like removing an unneeded extra limb.

Being intersex has zero social effect unless you live in a nudist colony.

I assume where you live communal changing rooms are not a thing.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

The difference being that a vaccine is used to prevent someone from catching or spreading dangerous diseases. Most intersex organizations aren't opposed to surgery when performed to save a child's life.

And in this instance, surgery would be done for the sake of easing into society, like removing an unneeded extra limb.

If as an adult they wish to undergo SRS, that should be their right. I'm not going to try to do a "WELLLL that's DIFFERENT" argument here about vaccines because I'm not the one who is asserting the existence of a benevolent and infallible god.

I'm of the opinion that it should be the parent's right to decide.

Not being able to marry who you love or be comfortable in your own body is much more than a narrow threat to your happiness.

Considering that vows of poverty are deemed noble in Christianity, earthly happiness is not worth pursuing as a be-all-end-all goal.

It's a little scummy to go to someone who's forced to live a romanceless life or forced to live in a body they hate and say "Earthly happiness is overrated tho."

[Cekoviu]

Being intersex has zero social effect unless you live in a nudist colony.

I assume where you live communal changing rooms are not a thing.

Changing rooms also have private stalls (even if they're nominally for toilets, they can be used for changing) and you can shield yourself with a towel. It's how trans people are fine in changing rooms so long as they pass.

[Galloism]

I assume where you live communal changing rooms are not a thing.

Changing rooms also have private stalls (even if they're nominally for toilets, they can be used for changing) and you can shield yourself with a towel. It's how trans people are fine in changing rooms so long as they pass.

I think you went to a nicer school than I did.

[Cekoviu]

Changing rooms also have private stalls (even if they're nominally for toilets, they can be used for changing) and you can shield yourself with a towel. It's how trans people are fine in changing rooms so long as they pass.

I think you went to a nicer school than I did.

I'm thinking of public changing rooms like at a pool. I was homeschooled during middle and high school, so I haven't interacted with school changing rooms.
Regardless, it's not too hard to shield your privates with a towel when you change, and not showering is not extraordinarily atypical (though it won't win you friends).

[Necroghastia]

Changing rooms also have private stalls (even if they're nominally for toilets, they can be used for changing) and you can shield yourself with a towel. It's how trans people are fine in changing rooms so long as they pass.

I think you went to a nicer school than I did.

Y'all took your underwear off for gym class?

[Northern Davincia]

It is your choice to think so, but I am only here to clarify the Vatican's viewpoint.

And it's pretty clear that that viewpoint's morally fucked up and completely wrong according to the interpretation of God being infallible, since there's no justifiable argument neither you nor the Catholic Church can make that reconciles that fact with this shitty idea you're peddling that God created certain humans to be forced to live torturous lives or to be cursed to damnation from their birth.

No one is cursed to damnation - that's a matter of choice - and no one is being forced to live a torturous life. Obviously the Vatican is not Calvinist.
Scripture encourages restraint in one's life, but I can't stop anyone from living incorrectly if they wish to.

[United Muscovite Nations]

The difference being that a vaccine is used to prevent someone from catching or spreading dangerous diseases. Most intersex organizations aren't opposed to surgery when performed to save a child's life.

And in this instance, surgery would be done for the sake of easing into society, like removing an unneeded extra limb.

You do realize that this exact argument can be used verbatim for transgender people getting SRS, yes?

[Galloism]

I think you went to a nicer school than I did.

Y'all took your underwear off for gym class?

You can tell if there's a little extra something going on there whether you take off underwear or not.

That being said, it wasn't uncommon. Underwear can get dank after gym.

[Cekoviu]

Y'all took your underwear off for gym class?

You can tell if there's a little extra something going on there whether you take off underwear or not.

That being said, it wasn't uncommon. Underwear can get dank after gym.

Tucking is Transfem 101 and is also useful for intersex people; you really can't tell if it's done right. (And if the intersex person is a dude, the point is moot.)

[Galloism]

You can tell if there's a little extra something going on there whether you take off underwear or not.

That being said, it wasn't uncommon. Underwear can get dank after gym.

Tucking is Transfem 101 and is also useful for intersex people; you really can't tell if it's done right. (And if the intersex person is a dude, the point is moot.)

I'll have to take your word for it. I involuntarily twitched at the concept, but perhaps you know better than I.

[Kowani]

I think you went to a nicer school than I did.

I'm thinking of public changing rooms like at a pool. I was homeschooled during middle and high school, so I haven't interacted with school changing rooms.
Regardless, it's not too hard to shield your privates with a towel when you change, and not showering is not extraordinarily atypical (though it won't win you friends).

School changing rooms are…not conducive to privacy.