TDT 4: What the $#@! is a "womxn", anyways?

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Which would mean all LGBTQ+ people are perfectly valid.

Intentional, yes. Valid, no.

No? Counterexample: Pedophilia.

Can pedophiles not be rehabilitated or undergo therapy?

Why aren’t LGBT people valid?

[Torrocca]

Which would mean all LGBTQ+ people are perfectly valid.

Intentional, yes. Valid, no.

Nope. God doesn't make mistakes, remember? That means God wanted LGBTQ+ people, which means we're all valid.

[Necroghastia]

If you find the understanding to be faulty, then why not correct it? What are Hanafuridake and I misunderstanding?

God doesn't make mistakes. Exodus 4:11 and John 9:2-4 indicates that what us humans perceive as flaws are actually reminders to help those with "flaws."

So then... why is the Vatican saying doctors should surgically alter intersex children? If God doesn't make mistakes, then surely he intended for them to be intersex.

[Torrocca]

God doesn't make mistakes. Exodus 4:11 and John 9:2-4 indicates that what us humans perceive as flaws are actually reminders to help those with "flaws."

So then... why is the Vatican saying doctors should surgically alter intersex children? If God doesn't make mistakes, then surely he intended for them to be intersex.

Shh, shh, we're not supposed to talk about the paradoxical implications of the Catholic Church questioning God's infallibility!

[Auzkhia]

Can we invade Vatican City and install a pro-LGBTI Pope? They have a tiny military and no alliances, so it should be pretty easy. It is unacceptable for a sexually immoral theocratic dictatorship that spouts extremism and calls for intersex genital mutilation of infants to control territory in the heart of a major EU city.

Is this satire?

I mean, I'd be down to install a queer antipope and have them excommunicate Franciscus, even though I'm not Catholic, not even Christian, but a godless unbeliever.

God doesn't make mistakes. Exodus 4:11 and John 9:2-4 indicates that what us humans perceive as flaws are actually reminders to help those with "flaws."

So then... why is the Vatican saying doctors should surgically alter intersex children? If God doesn't make mistakes, then surely he intended for them to be intersex.

Gotta uphold that sex-gender system with stuffy religiosity somehow!

[Hanafuridake]

One of those is annihilating nature, and the other one is correcting God's mistakes, because I guess he can make those now.

Faulty theological understanding aside, the Vatican is upholding what it has always believed in and expecting it to adopt an unbiblical perspective is silly.

I remember when Christian conservatives accused transgender people of pushing invasive surgeries on children, but now the Vatican is wanting doctors to do exactly that.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

So then... why is the Vatican saying doctors should surgically alter intersex children? If God doesn't make mistakes, then surely he intended for them to be intersex.

Shh, shh, we're not supposed to talk about the paradoxical implications of the Catholic Church questioning God's infallibility!

I’m not religious but the way I see it is that if there is a claim that God is loving, LGBT people are a part of his creation. And even when they don’t follow his precepts, as his beloved creation too, they’re just as valid as heterosexual people.

[Northern Davincia]

Intentional, yes. Valid, no.

Can pedophiles not be rehabilitated or undergo therapy?

Why aren’t LGBT people valid?

Because they don't follow the human standard established by Adam and Eve.

Intentional, yes. Valid, no.

Nope. God doesn't make mistakes, remember? That means God wanted LGBTQ+ people, which means we're all valid.

Not quite. People can be created and fall short of the human standard, but that does not give them free reign in their actions.

God doesn't make mistakes. Exodus 4:11 and John 9:2-4 indicates that what us humans perceive as flaws are actually reminders to help those with "flaws."

So then... why is the Vatican saying doctors should surgically alter intersex children? If God doesn't make mistakes, then surely he intended for them to be intersex.

Yes, they were intended to be intersex and humans have the responsibility to help them. Surgical "correction" is simply the easiest way to have them conform to the human standard.

[Necroghastia]

Why aren’t LGBT people valid?

Because they don't follow the human standard established by Adam and Eve.

Nope. God doesn't make mistakes, remember? That means God wanted LGBTQ+ people, which means we're all valid.

Not quite. People can be created and fall short of the human standard, but that does not give them free reign in their actions.

So then... why is the Vatican saying doctors should surgically alter intersex children? If God doesn't make mistakes, then surely he intended for them to be intersex.

Yes, they were intended to be intersex and humans have the responsibility to help them. Surgical "correction" is simply the easiest way to have them conform to the human standard.

But if they were intended to be intersex, what's there to help? Why should they conform to human standards instead of God's?

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Why aren’t LGBT people valid?

Because they don't follow the human standard established by Adam and Eve.

Nope. God doesn't make mistakes, remember? That means God wanted LGBTQ+ people, which means we're all valid.

Not quite. People can be created and fall short of the human standard, but that does not give them free reign in their actions.

So then... why is the Vatican saying doctors should surgically alter intersex children? If God doesn't make mistakes, then surely he intended for them to be intersex.

Yes, they were intended to be intersex and humans have the responsibility to help them. Surgical "correction" is simply the easiest way to have them conform to the human standard.

Irrelevant if the claim is that God is loving. He gave us, according to Scripture, choice. LGBT people are just as valid as you.

[Torrocca]

Nope. God doesn't make mistakes, remember? That means God wanted LGBTQ+ people, which means we're all valid.

Not quite. People can be created and fall short of the human standard, but that does not give them free reign in their actions.

It sounds to me like you're questioning God's infallibility when the Bible makes it clear that God doesn't make mistakes. It's obvious God wanted the LGBTQ+ to exist and live life however we want to.

[Northern Davincia]

Because they don't follow the human standard established by Adam and Eve.

Not quite. People can be created and fall short of the human standard, but that does not give them free reign in their actions.

Yes, they were intended to be intersex and humans have the responsibility to help them. Surgical "correction" is simply the easiest way to have them conform to the human standard.

But if they were intended to be intersex, what's there to help? Why should they conform to human standards instead of God's?

God established the human standard in creating Adam and Eve. Helping them is a matter of demonstrating God's grace through humanity, such as curing the blind.

[Torrocca]

But if they were intended to be intersex, what's there to help? Why should they conform to human standards instead of God's?

God established the human standard in creating Adam and Eve. Helping them is a matter of demonstrating God's grace through humanity, such as curing the blind.

Considering Eve started off as part of a man, she's canonically MtF transgender which just lends further proof that God views the LGBTQ+ as valid.

[Kowani]

But if they were intended to be intersex, what's there to help? Why should they conform to human standards instead of God's?

God established the human standard in creating Adam and Eve. Helping them is a matter of demonstrating God's grace through humanity, such as curing the blind.

Two people whose existence makes no sense, by the way.
Also, “helping.”

[Northern Davincia]

Because they don't follow the human standard established by Adam and Eve.

Not quite. People can be created and fall short of the human standard, but that does not give them free reign in their actions.

Yes, they were intended to be intersex and humans have the responsibility to help them. Surgical "correction" is simply the easiest way to have them conform to the human standard.

Irrelevant if the claim is that God is loving. He gave us, according to Scripture, choice. LGBT people are just as valid as you.

Yes, He gave us choice. Sometimes we make poor choices and none of us are free from consequence.

Not quite. People can be created and fall short of the human standard, but that does not give them free reign in their actions.

It sounds to me like you're questioning God's infallibility when the Bible makes it clear that God doesn't make mistakes. It's obvious God wanted the LGBTQ+ to exist and live life however we want to.

Did God want LGBTs to exist? Yes. However, all of us are responsible for our own actions. There is nothing in scripture to imply that God wants you to live life however you please.

[Northern Davincia]

God established the human standard in creating Adam and Eve. Helping them is a matter of demonstrating God's grace through humanity, such as curing the blind.

Considering Eve started off as part of a man, she's canonically MtF transgender which just lends further proof that God views the LGBTQ+ as valid.

Nonsense. Eve's identity corresponded with her biological sex.

God established the human standard in creating Adam and Eve. Helping them is a matter of demonstrating God's grace through humanity, such as curing the blind.

Two people whose existence makes no sense, by the way.
Also, “helping.”

Yes, helping.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Irrelevant if the claim is that God is loving. He gave us, according to Scripture, choice. LGBT people are just as valid as you.

Yes, He gave us choice. Sometimes we make poor choices and none of us are free from consequence.

It sounds to me like you're questioning God's infallibility when the Bible makes it clear that God doesn't make mistakes. It's obvious God wanted the LGBTQ+ to exist and live life however we want to.

Did God want LGBTs to exist? Yes. However, all of us are responsible for our own actions. There is nothing in scripture to imply that God wants you to live life however you please.

Subjection to consequence doesn’t make you less valid than others.

[Torrocca]

It sounds to me like you're questioning God's infallibility when the Bible makes it clear that God doesn't make mistakes. It's obvious God wanted the LGBTQ+ to exist and live life however we want to.

Did God want LGBTs to exist? Yes. However, all of us are responsible for our own actions. There is nothing in scripture to imply that God wants you to live life however you please.

Your entire argument's a paradox here. Either God makes no mistakes, and thus wanted LGBTQ+ people, which would include us living life in our own way, or God makes mistakes and "free will" only extends to what God ordains.

Regardless of this shit, let's get back to the elephant in the room: the fucked up bullshit that is the Vatican Church ordaining dangerous, nonconsensual surgeries on intersex infants, because holy fucking shit that's a crime against humanity.

[Hanafuridake]

I don't really care about the homophobic and transphobic nature of the document because it's standard for the Vatican. What makes me angriest the most is that the Vatican thinks that it has the right to instruct doctors to perform cosmetic surgeries on children which could seriously injure them all because some priests are uncomfortable about the physical characteristics a child is born with. This is one of the most seriously bankrupt things they've done in a long time, all the while their supporters make unfounded claims that trans people support sexual reassignment surgery for kids.

Like always, the cries of children mean little to them.

[Jack Thomas Lang]

It sounds to me like you're questioning God's infallibility when the Bible makes it clear that God doesn't make mistakes. It's obvious God wanted the LGBTQ+ to exist and live life however we want to.

God makes narcissists, that does not mean he wants them to live a life of toxic pride and disregard for others. The argument that God made LGBTQ+ people, therefore they should live however they want doesn't follow.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

Which would mean all LGBTQ+ people are perfectly valid.

Intentional, yes. Valid, no.

No? Counterexample: Pedophilia.

Can pedophiles not be rehabilitated or undergo therapy?

Why would God intend go make LGBT people if they're not allowed to be happy? That seems like a dick move.

[Northern Davincia]

Did God want LGBTs to exist? Yes. However, all of us are responsible for our own actions. There is nothing in scripture to imply that God wants you to live life however you please.

Your entire argument's a paradox here. Either God makes no mistakes, and thus wanted LGBTQ+ people, which would include us living life in our own way, or God makes mistakes and "free will" only extends to what God ordains.

Regardless of this shit, let's get back to the elephant in the room: the fucked up bullshit that is the Vatican Church ordaining dangerous, nonconsensual surgeries on intersex infants, because holy fucking shit that's a crime against humanity.

Wanting people to exist does not mean they can do as they please. Otherwise, sin would not exist as a concept. Free will simply gives us the ability to make right and wrong choices.
It just so happens that making wrong choices, in the Christian context, is a very grave matter.

[Hanafuridake]

It sounds to me like you're questioning God's infallibility when the Bible makes it clear that God doesn't make mistakes. It's obvious God wanted the LGBTQ+ to exist and live life however we want to.

God makes narcissists, that does not mean he wants them to live a life of toxic pride and disregard for others. The argument that God made LGBTQ+ people, therefore they should live however they want doesn't follow.

You know, this argument falls apart when we talk about intersex people. How is treating them like abnormalities for physical characteristics any different from racism or sexism?

[Necroghastia]

Your entire argument's a paradox here. Either God makes no mistakes, and thus wanted LGBTQ+ people, which would include us living life in our own way, or God makes mistakes and "free will" only extends to what God ordains.

Regardless of this shit, let's get back to the elephant in the room: the fucked up bullshit that is the Vatican Church ordaining dangerous, nonconsensual surgeries on intersex infants, because holy fucking shit that's a crime against humanity.

Wanting people to exist does not mean they can do as they please. Otherwise, sin would not exist as a concept. Free will simply gives us the ability to make right and wrong choices.
It just so happens that making wrong choices, in the Christian context, is a very grave matter.

And yet the Vatican would seek to deny that free will.

[Northern Davincia]

Intentional, yes. Valid, no.

Can pedophiles not be rehabilitated or undergo therapy?

Why would God intend go make LGBT people if they're not allowed to be happy? That seems like a dick move.

That's a rather narrow view of happiness. Besides, the Christian lifestyle is, ideally, one of restraint.

God makes narcissists, that does not mean he wants them to live a life of toxic pride and disregard for others. The argument that God made LGBTQ+ people, therefore they should live however they want doesn't follow.

You know, this argument falls apart when we talk about intersex people. How is treating them like abnormalities for physical characteristics any different from racism or sexism?

Because race and sex are not abnormalities, they're quite normal. Being born with an extra arm is an abnormality, but removing it is not an act of malice.