TDT 4: What the $#@! is a "womxn", anyways?

[The Rich Port]

Oh I'm mad am I.

Does this line of argument work with people you hang out with.

Cuz uh, I would advise against it otherwise.

Who knows, maybe I should use that in court. "Your Honor, I wasn't trying to rob the guy in his own house, we were screwing and then I had to shoot him."

"Oh well then that has an indikikikia of truth, lol"

That's not how you spell indicia at all. There's one c and you put in 3 k's. It was spelled directly above you, I don't understand how you made that mistake.

The fact is you've already accepted my position, nothing you say after that really matters.

Keep telling yourself that.

Also, what you described to Novus is textbook second degree murder.

Araujo was murdered in cold blooded first degree murder, but this was when trans panic was considered a legitimate defense.

[Des-Bal]

Keep telling yourself that.

Also, what you described to Novus is textbook second degree murder.

Araujo was murdered in cold blooded first degree murder, but this was when trans panic was considered a legitimate defense.

I could google it but I'm pretty sure that's how it's spelled.

Whether it's second degree or voluntary manslaughter depends on the jurisdiction but when a crime is committed in the heat of passion it can reduce a charge to second degree murder or voluntary manslaughter depending on the situation and the relevant law.

Yup.

[Novus America]

Well yes it happens. But that does not mean it should be considered involuntary manslaughter/third degree murder just because it happens.
For that we would have to show reasonable people do the murders.

We need to show that a reasonable person would be set off not necessarily that they'd commit the murder. The idea isn't that the murder was reasonable, it's in fact the opposite that in that moment they were not possessed of reason.

But we have yet to show reasonable person would be set off into a murderous rage.

[Des-Bal]

But we have yet to show reasonable person would be set off into a murderous rage.

That would involve identifying someone who murdered a transgender person as reasonable and I don't see that as a fruitful discussion.

[Torrocca]

Huh, I see it was "cis people telling trans people that 'trap' isn't actually a slur" hour for a few pages here.

Nice.

[Iciaros]

As a law student, I thought I should add that what constitutes murder, of whatever degree, can vary wildly from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. I don't live in America, which is where I'm guessing most posters here are from, so I'm afraid I can't shed any light on US laws. Where I live, though, the most relevant semi-defence to the equivalent of first-degree murder is called 'provocation', which in most cases requires not only 'the heat of passion' but also that said heat be induced by a fault-worthy action on the part of the victim, usually made with the intention of evoking offence. It's up in the air whether that would apply to this particular scenario in discussion, but I just thought I'd poke my head in and note that a) law is not the same everywhere and b) the specific law could be pretty complicated.

[Dumb Ideologies]

Huh, I see it was "cis people telling trans people that 'trap' isn't actually a slur" hour for a few pages here.

Nice.

Well, attempts at introducing a bit of nuance into this whole thing going right down the drain then. Might throw myself down the sewer with them, tbh. Commence the unproductive shouting!

[Torrocca]

Huh, I see it was "cis people telling trans people that 'trap' isn't actually a slur" hour for a few pages here.

Nice.

Well, attempts at introducing a bit of nuance into this whole thing going right down the drain then. Might throw myself down the sewer with them, tbh. Commence the unproductive shouting!

Nuance is dead, and the internet killed it.

[Dumb Ideologies]

Well, attempts at introducing a bit of nuance into this whole thing going right down the drain then. Might throw myself down the sewer with them, tbh. Commence the unproductive shouting!

Nuance is dead, and the internet killed it.

What hurts most is that this isn't even wrong.

[Drongonia]

Huh, I see it was "cis people telling trans people that 'trap' isn't actually a slur" hour for a few pages here.

Nice.

Better that than "trans people telling everyone else what they can and can't say" hour.

[Torrocca]

Huh, I see it was "cis people telling trans people that 'trap' isn't actually a slur" hour for a few pages here.

Nice.

Better that than "trans people telling everyone else what they can and can't say" hour.

I'm sorry, where in anywhere in those last few pages did any trans person try to police words?

Because I sure as fuck didn't see any of that happening.

[The Rich Port]

Better that than "trans people telling everyone else what they can and can't say" hour.

I'm sorry, where in anywhere in those last few pages did any trans person try to police words?

Because I sure as fuck didn't see any of that happening.

Asking politely not to use words they don't like counts as policing and being rude and insensitive is freedom fighting, dontchaknow.

[Torrocca]

I'm sorry, where in anywhere in those last few pages did any trans person try to police words?

Because I sure as fuck didn't see any of that happening.

Asking politely not to use words they don't like counts as policing and being rude and insensitive is freedom fighting, dontchaknow.

Oh, right, I forgot that McFreedom^TM forever and always trumps being even remotely a decent person and respecting something as simple as a person's request not to call them or somebody else a slur. Silly me.

[Des-Bal]

Oh, right, I forgot that McFreedom^TM forever and always trumps being even remotely a decent person and respecting something as simple as a person's request not to call them or somebody else a slur. Silly me.

So the words a slur and anyone who uses it isn't even a remotely decent person. Yeah no language policing here.

[Dumb Ideologies]

Better that than "trans people telling everyone else what they can and can't say" hour.

I'm sorry, where in anywhere in those last few pages did any trans person try to police words?

Because I sure as fuck didn't see any of that happening.

Huh? If ya say something's a slur the general endgame of that is a moral argument that people should be discouraged from saying the thing.

This is going to get stuck in esoteric definitional wars about what "policing" means, isn't it. Yup, I'm going down the sewer, have a nice time, wheeeee~!

[Drongonia]

Better that than "trans people telling everyone else what they can and can't say" hour.

I'm sorry, where in anywhere in those last few pages did any trans person try to police words?

Because I sure as fuck didn't see any of that happening.

Saying something is a slur implies it shouldn't be said, as a slur by definition is a negative thing.

[Torrocca]

Oh, right, I forgot that McFreedom^TM forever and always trumps being even remotely a decent person and respecting something as simple as a person's request not to call them or somebody else a slur. Silly me.

So the words a slur and anyone who uses it isn't even a remotely decent person. Yeah no language policing here.

If you use it in reference to a trans person (considering trap in that context is literally used to treat trans people like sexual predators who get some kind of high out of tricking people (commonly heterosexual men) into sleeping somebody of the same gender) then, yeah, I'd say that foregoes being a decent person.

[Drongonia]

So the words a slur and anyone who uses it isn't even a remotely decent person. Yeah no language policing here.

If you use it in reference to a trans person (considering trap in that context is literally used to treat trans people like sexual predators who get some kind of high out of tricking people (commonly heterosexual men) into sleeping somebody of the same gender) then, yeah, I'd say that foregoes being a decent person.

You must have not read the part where some of us suggested that people who are being called traps should be allowed to be okay with it, and that it's not at all comparable to other actual slurs.

[The Rich Port]

I'm sorry, where in anywhere in those last few pages did any trans person try to police words?

Because I sure as fuck didn't see any of that happening.

Saying something is a slur implies it shouldn't be said, as a slur by definition is a negative thing.

If said in a negative context, but even then, some people don't like being called that.

It doesn't make you evil that you insist on calling them by a certain name, it just makes you insensitive and self-centered.

It's the same reason some people don't like to be called the N-word, friendly or otherwise.

[Torrocca]

If you use it in reference to a trans person (considering trap in that context is literally used to treat trans people like sexual predators who get some kind of high out of tricking people (commonly heterosexual men) into sleeping somebody of the same gender) then, yeah, I'd say that foregoes being a decent person.

You must have not read the part where some of us suggested that people who are being called traps should be allowed to be okay with it, and that it's not at all comparable to other actual slurs.

TIL'd that because some trans people are okay with being referred to as traps, that that suddenly means it's no longer a slur for the majority of trans people.

10/10

[Necroghastia]

Oh, right, I forgot that McFreedom^TM forever and always trumps being even remotely a decent person and respecting something as simple as a person's request not to call them or somebody else a slur. Silly me.

So the words a slur and anyone who uses it isn't even a remotely decent person. Yeah no language policing here.

I'm sorry, where in anywhere in those last few pages did any trans person try to police words?

Because I sure as fuck didn't see any of that happening.

Saying something is a slur implies it shouldn't be said, as a slur by definition is a negative thing.

I think the real question is, why do you care so much about being able to say and not be shamed for saying a (not-that-commonly used) word that you know is hurtful to a large group of people?

[Drongonia]

You must have not read the part where some of us suggested that people who are being called traps should be allowed to be okay with it, and that it's not at all comparable to other actual slurs.

TIL'd that because some trans people are okay with being referred to as traps, that that suddenly means it's no longer a slur for the majority of trans people.

10/10

How do you know how the majority of trans people feel about it? Did you do a survey? Postal vote? Ring them up? DM them on tumblr? Please inform me on how you're able to so efficiently speak on behalf of an entire worldwide community.

[Drongonia]

So the words a slur and anyone who uses it isn't even a remotely decent person. Yeah no language policing here.

Saying something is a slur implies it shouldn't be said, as a slur by definition is a negative thing.

I think the real question is, why do you care so much about being able to say and not be shamed for saying a (not-that-commonly used) word that you know is hurtful to a large group of people?

McFreedom™ forever

That's why

[The Rich Port]

TIL'd that because some trans people are okay with being referred to as traps, that that suddenly means it's no longer a slur for the majority of trans people.

10/10

How do you know how the majority of trans people feel about it? Did you do a survey? Postal vote? Ring them up? DM them on tumblr? Please inform me on how you're able to so efficiently speak on behalf of an entire worldwide community.

What the wider community feels about doesn't matter.

I get the distinct feeling the people on this forum have asked other people to please not call them that, and they insist otherwise, because meme funny lel.

[Torrocca]

TIL'd that because some trans people are okay with being referred to as traps, that that suddenly means it's no longer a slur for the majority of trans people.

10/10

How do you know how the majority of trans people feel about it? Did you do a survey? Postal vote? Ring them up? DM them on tumblr? Please inform me on how you're able to so efficiently speak on behalf of an entire worldwide community.

Do you seriously somehow think a word that basically degrades a trans person to the likes of a sexual predator who tricks people into sexual acts (which has gotten trans people fucking killed because of "trans panic" bullshit) isn't a slur for the majority of us? Seriously?