TDT 4: What the $#@! is a "womxn", anyways?

[Cappuccina]

I don't blame people for questioning "non-binary" and people claiming it, tbh. There's a prevalence of transtrenders these days, not to mention it's a rather nebulous concept.

Wow, now that's a take I've never heard before.

If it was actually that 'trendy', I wouldn't be back in the closet now.

I honestly wouldn't know why, people love that sort of thing now.

I don't blame people for questioning "non-binary" and people claiming it, tbh. There's a prevalence of transtrenders these days, not to mention it's a rather nebulous concept.

Chances of trending depend on age and the absurdity of the claimed gender.
If they're less than about 25, chances are quite high regardless of the other factor (especially if they're active in an LGBT group, those places are... weird, to put it kindly), and anywhere above 25, if it's absurd they likely haven't matured past 25, much less 12, so they're either trending or too childish to qualify for "trending".

Though in my experience, most "non-binary" people I've met online fall into the categories best described as "both" or "none", but I've met quite a few who go much beyond this "slightly weird but hey I can work with it" range.

But this is just my tree fiddy.

Of course, depends on what one considers "absurd".

[Proctopeo]

Chances of trending depend on age and the absurdity of the claimed gender.
If they're less than about 25, chances are quite high regardless of the other factor (especially if they're active in an LGBT group, those places are... weird, to put it kindly), and anywhere above 25, if it's absurd they likely haven't matured past 25, much less 12, so they're either trending or too childish to qualify for "trending".

Though in my experience, most "non-binary" people I've met online fall into the categories best described as "both" or "none", but I've met quite a few who go much beyond this "slightly weird but hey I can work with it" range.

But this is just my tree fiddy.

Of course, depends on what one considers "absurd".

It's subjective, sure, but there's a line past which not considering things absurd is a red flag.

[Cekoviu]

I don't blame people for questioning "non-binary" and people claiming it, tbh. There's a prevalence of transtrenders these days, not to mention it's a rather nebulous concept.

Chances of trending depend on age and the absurdity of the claimed gender.
If they're less than about 25, chances are quite high regardless of the other factor (especially if they're active in an LGBT group, those places are... weird, to put it kindly), and anywhere above 25, if it's absurd they likely haven't matured past 25, much less 12, so they're either trending or too childish to qualify for "trending".

Though in my experience, most "non-binary" people I've met online fall into the categories best described as "both" or "none", but I've met quite a few who go much beyond this "slightly weird but hey I can work with it" range.

But this is just my tree fiddy.

Have you actually spent any amount of time in LGBT groups and spaces? Because I have (nearly 2 years as an active member, including being on the hiring committee for staff), and they're not full of people faking it, nor are they particularly different from any other support organization. See the link in my signature.

[Hediacrana]

Or, you know, you could actually take the time to watch the video before you comment on it. Given the time of response after I posted the link, that didn't happen.

But then again, surely your ill-informed, unoriginal talking points are far more pertinent and interesting than what people who've lived as nonbinary for several decades could possibly have to say.

[Torrocca]

"Transtrending" is such a bullshit fucking thing, I swear. Not bullshit as in, "it's bullshit that this is something people do," of course, but bullshit as in, "it's bullshit that unknowledgeable people treat this like a serious thing afflicting the LGBTQ+ community".

[Proctopeo]

Chances of trending depend on age and the absurdity of the claimed gender.
If they're less than about 25, chances are quite high regardless of the other factor (especially if they're active in an LGBT group, those places are... weird, to put it kindly), and anywhere above 25, if it's absurd they likely haven't matured past 25, much less 12, so they're either trending or too childish to qualify for "trending".

Though in my experience, most "non-binary" people I've met online fall into the categories best described as "both" or "none", but I've met quite a few who go much beyond this "slightly weird but hey I can work with it" range.

But this is just my tree fiddy.

Have you actually spent any amount of time in LGBT groups and spaces? Because I have (nearly 2 years as an active member, including being on the hiring committee for staff), and they're not full of people faking it, nor are they particularly different from any other support organization. See the link in my signature.

Indirectly calling me stupid isn't how one forms a good argument. You're better than this.

Or, you know, you could actually take the time to watch the video before you comment on it. Given the time of response after I posted the link, that didn't happen.

But then again, surely your ill-informed, unoriginal talking points are far more pertinent and interesting than what people who've lived as nonbinary for several decades could possibly have to say.

They indeed are
Though "ill-informed" and "unoriginal" are very open to be contested here, since all my "talking points" are formed from my own experiences.

I think you're upset that I'm not marching in tune more than anything else tbqh

[Auzkhia]

As someone who is nonbinary and over 30 years old, I found this little video 'Not just a phase' about 30+ nonbinary people worth watching.

I saw that video posted on twitter the other day. Jeffrey Marsh is in it and they are one of my favorite nb celebrities.

"Transtrending" is such a bullshit fucking thing, I swear. Not bullshit as in, "it's bullshit that this is something people do," of course, but bullshit as in, "it's bullshit that unknowledgeable people treat this like a serious thing afflicting the LGBTQ+ community".

Exactly. It's basically a by word for "trans person I don't like". It also validates cis ignorance and gives transphobes more ammunition. More gatekeeping hurts the trans community. Even if "trenders" were real, one person getting through and then having to detranisition would be better than people waiting years for HRT or surgeries and needing two letters of recommendation from (usually cis) psychologists to "prove" that they are dysphoric enough to get treatment.

Call me a "tucute" (something transmedicalists call their detractors), but I think we should let all trans people, and nonbinary people, they are trans too, transition as soon as they can, however that means to them. Not everyone wants "surgery", for example. There is no right way to be trans. How do you know you are one? By not being your assigned gender at birth.

[Luminesa]

As someone who is nonbinary and over 30 years old, I found this little video 'Not just a phase' about 30+ nonbinary people worth watching.

I saw that video posted on twitter the other day. Jeffrey Marsh is in it and they are one of my favorite nb celebrities.

"Transtrending" is such a bullshit fucking thing, I swear. Not bullshit as in, "it's bullshit that this is something people do," of course, but bullshit as in, "it's bullshit that unknowledgeable people treat this like a serious thing afflicting the LGBTQ+ community".

Exactly. It's basically a by word for "trans person I don't like". It also validates cis ignorance and gives transphobes more ammunition. More gatekeeping hurts the trans community. Even if "trenders" were real, one person getting through and then having to detranisition would be better than people waiting years for HRT or surgeries and needing two letters of recommendation from (usually cis) psychologists to "prove" that they are dysphoric enough to get treatment.

Call me a "tucute" (something transmedicalists call their detractors), but I think we should let all trans people, and nonbinary people, they are trans too, transition as soon as they can, however that means to them. Not everyone wants "surgery", for example. There is no right way to be trans. How do you know you are one? By not being your assigned gender at birth.

> “Tucute”
> Transmedicalists
...My head hurts. Sorry. I’ve never heard either of these terms in my life.

[Cappuccina]

Or, you know, you could actually take the time to watch the video before you comment on it. Given the time of response after I posted the link, that didn't happen.

But then again, surely your ill-informed, unoriginal talking points are far more pertinent and interesting than what people who've lived as nonbinary for several decades could possibly have to say.

I watched about a quarter of it, that's about it. It was grating.

"Transtrending" is such a bullshit fucking thing, I swear. Not bullshit as in, "it's bullshit that this is something people do," of course, but bullshit as in, "it's bullshit that unknowledgeable people treat this like a serious thing afflicting the LGBTQ+ community".

What?

[Auzkhia]

I saw that video posted on twitter the other day. Jeffrey Marsh is in it and they are one of my favorite nb celebrities.

Exactly. It's basically a by word for "trans person I don't like". It also validates cis ignorance and gives transphobes more ammunition. More gatekeeping hurts the trans community. Even if "trenders" were real, one person getting through and then having to detranisition would be better than people waiting years for HRT or surgeries and needing two letters of recommendation from (usually cis) psychologists to "prove" that they are dysphoric enough to get treatment.

Call me a "tucute" (something transmedicalists call their detractors), but I think we should let all trans people, and nonbinary people, they are trans too, transition as soon as they can, however that means to them. Not everyone wants "surgery", for example. There is no right way to be trans. How do you know you are one? By not being your assigned gender at birth.

> “Tucute”
> Transmedicalists
...My head hurts. Sorry. I’ve never heard either of these terms in my life.

Transmedicalists, or also commonly called truscum, are people claim that being trans is a medical condition that requires gender dysphoria and that you're only valid if you fully medically transition. They call other trans people trenders if they don't have dysphoria or don't want to have SRS. They're gatekeepers. Tucute, I believe is them mocking them as it is short for "too cute to be cis" and thinking that there are people who fake being trans for style points or something.

I believe this is all unnecessary gatekeeping and that there is no one true path of being trans.

[Proctopeo]

"Transtrending" is such a bullshit fucking thing, I swear. Not bullshit as in, "it's bullshit that this is something people do," of course, but bullshit as in, "it's bullshit that unknowledgeable people treat this like a serious thing afflicting the LGBTQ+ community".

Exactly. It's basically a by word for "trans person I don't like".

Literally not.

It also validates cis ignorance and gives transphobes more ammunition.

How?

More gatekeeping hurts the trans community.

Gatekeeping is a necessary action to ensure order, stability, and consistency. Look at what a mess feminism became due to people waiting to gatekeep until it was too late to do anything: they got, among many other things, TERFs from not doing so.

Even if "trenders" were real, one person getting through and then having to detranisition would be better than people waiting years for HRT or surgeries and needing two letters of recommendation from (usually cis) psychologists to "prove" that they are dysphoric enough to get treatment.

A balanced approach is best in this case.

Call me a "tucute" (something transmedicalists call their detractors),

Actually, it's what anti-transmedicalists (specifically, one clique of them, but the term has since broadened) call themselves. "Truscum" comes from the same source, and is a term broadly used by anti-transmedicalists to refer to transmedicalists in a derogatory way.

but I think we should let all trans people, and nonbinary people, they are trans too, transition as soon as they can, however that means to them. Not everyone wants "surgery", for example. There is no right way to be trans. How do you know you are one? By not being your assigned gender at birth.

Galaxy brain stuff right here. Circular definitions, unlike circular objects, get you nowhere but your starting point, you know.

[Cekoviu]

Have you actually spent any amount of time in LGBT groups and spaces? Because I have (nearly 2 years as an active member, including being on the hiring committee for staff), and they're not full of people faking it, nor are they particularly different from any other support organization. See the link in my signature.

Indirectly calling me stupid isn't how one forms a good argument. You're better than this.

The point was not the Mount Stupid moniker, it was that you were vastly overestimating your knowledge of the subject matter. Using your (probably deliberate) misinterpretation, you've managed to dodge my entire post and its argument. Good job, Proct.

[Cappuccina]

Exactly. It's basically a by word for "trans person I don't like".

Literally not.

It also validates cis ignorance and gives transphobes more ammunition.

How?

More gatekeeping hurts the trans community.

Gatekeeping is a necessary action to ensure order, stability, and consistency. Look at what a mess feminism became due to people waiting to gatekeep until it was too late to do anything: they got, among many other things, TERFs from not doing so.

Even if "trenders" were real, one person getting through and then having to detranisition would be better than people waiting years for HRT or surgeries and needing two letters of recommendation from (usually cis) psychologists to "prove" that they are dysphoric enough to get treatment.

A balanced approach is best in this case.

Call me a "tucute" (something transmedicalists call their detractors),

Actually, it's what anti-transmedicalists (specifically, one clique of them, but the term has since broadened) call themselves. "Truscum" comes from the same source, and is a term broadly used by anti-transmedicalists to refer to transmedicalists in a derogatory way.

but I think we should let all trans people, and nonbinary people, they are trans too, transition as soon as they can, however that means to them. Not everyone wants "surgery", for example. There is no right way to be trans. How do you know you are one? By not being your assigned gender at birth.

Galaxy brain stuff right here. Circular definitions, unlike circular objects, get you nowhere but your starting point, you know.

How? You ask? Because, unless you're all inclusive, you're literally transphobic...gotta validate everything to the point where nothing means anything.

[Ifreann]

Exactly. It's basically a by word for "trans person I don't like".

Literally not.

It also validates cis ignorance and gives transphobes more ammunition.

How?

More gatekeeping hurts the trans community.

Gatekeeping is a necessary action to ensure order, stability, and consistency. Look at what a mess feminism became due to people waiting to gatekeep until it was too late to do anything: they got, among many other things, TERFs from not doing so.

Even if "trenders" were real, one person getting through and then having to detranisition would be better than people waiting years for HRT or surgeries and needing two letters of recommendation from (usually cis) psychologists to "prove" that they are dysphoric enough to get treatment.

A balanced approach is best in this case.

Call me a "tucute" (something transmedicalists call their detractors),

Actually, it's what anti-transmedicalists (specifically, one clique of them, but the term has since broadened) call themselves. "Truscum" comes from the same source, and is a term broadly used by anti-transmedicalists to refer to transmedicalists in a derogatory way.

but I think we should let all trans people, and nonbinary people, they are trans too, transition as soon as they can, however that means to them. Not everyone wants "surgery", for example. There is no right way to be trans. How do you know you are one? By not being your assigned gender at birth.

Galaxy brain stuff right here. Circular definitions, unlike circular objects, get you nowhere but your starting point, you know.

We need to gatekeep people from determining their own identity! What if people exercise their rights without being properly trans?!

[Torrocca]

Literally not.


How?


Gatekeeping is a necessary action to ensure order, stability, and consistency. Look at what a mess feminism became due to people waiting to gatekeep until it was too late to do anything: they got, among many other things, TERFs from not doing so.


A balanced approach is best in this case.


Actually, it's what anti-transmedicalists (specifically, one clique of them, but the term has since broadened) call themselves. "Truscum" comes from the same source, and is a term broadly used by anti-transmedicalists to refer to transmedicalists in a derogatory way.


Galaxy brain stuff right here. Circular definitions, unlike circular objects, get you nowhere but your starting point, you know.

We need to gatekeep people from determining their own identity! What if people exercise their rights without being properly trans?!

How dare those nancies develop their own identity and sense of self by discovering who they are as a person? Clearly, I, a cis male, should tell those silly transgendereds who is or isn't an actual, valid transgendered!

[Auzkhia]

We need to gatekeep people from determining their own identity! What if people exercise their rights without being properly trans?!

How dare those nancies develop their own identity and sense of self by discovering who they are as a person? Clearly, I, a cis male, should tell those silly transgendereds who is or isn't an actual, valid transgendered!

Trust me, I'm a psych major!

But yeah, I remember an ex-friend of mine accuse one of my friends of being a "trender" and used his psychology major as a basis, but the real reason was that he didn't like them.

[Torrocca]

How dare those nancies develop their own identity and sense of self by discovering who they are as a person? Clearly, I, a cis male, should tell those silly transgendereds who is or isn't an actual, valid transgendered!

Trust me, I'm a psych major!

But yeah, I remember an ex-friend of mine accuse one of my friends of being a "trender" and used his psychology major as a basis, but the real reason was that he didn't like them.

That ex-friend sounds like a major cunt.

[Auzkhia]

Trust me, I'm a psych major!

But yeah, I remember an ex-friend of mine accuse one of my friends of being a "trender" and used his psychology major as a basis, but the real reason was that he didn't like them.

That ex-friend sounds like a major cunt.

Yeah, it goes into the whole issue of misgendering trans people you don't personally like. Which I always respond to, with some humor, "please don't make me defend Caitlyn Jenner again".

[Ifreann]

We need to gatekeep people from determining their own identity! What if people exercise their rights without being properly trans?!

How dare those nancies develop their own identity and sense of self by discovering who they are as a person? Clearly, I, a cis male, should tell those silly transgendereds who is or isn't an actual, valid transgendered!

No one knows more about queer identities than cishet men, we are the clear choice for keepers of this most sacred gate.

[Torrocca]

How dare those nancies develop their own identity and sense of self by discovering who they are as a person? Clearly, I, a cis male, should tell those silly transgendereds who is or isn't an actual, valid transgendered!

No one knows more about queer identities than cishet men, we are the clear choice for keepers of this most sacred gate.

Yes, yes you are. Please, oh sacred one, tell us more about our queer identities!

[Hediacrana]

They indeed are
Though "ill-informed" and "unoriginal" are very open to be contested here, since all my "talking points" are formed from my own experiences.

I think you're upset that I'm not marching in tune more than anything else tbqh

As it happens, I wasn't talking about you or your posts; I was talking about Cappu's. That said, it does appear that Cekoviu's evaluation of your argument is spot on.

Regarding your honest attempt at emotional diagnostics, you'll be happy to know that my well-being is not determined by the marching habits of strangers on the internet.

As someone who is nonbinary and over 30 years old, I found this little video 'Not just a phase' about 30+ nonbinary people worth watching.

I saw that video posted on twitter the other day. Jeffrey Marsh is in it and they are one of my favorite nb celebrities.

It has lots of interesting folks who I'd like to learn more about. Kate Bornstein, too.

Say, talking about nb celebrities; maybe favorite trans celebrities and historic figures would be an interesting new poll topic? Grenartia?

[Auzkhia]

No one knows more about queer identities than cishet men, we are the clear choice for keepers of this most sacred gate.

Yes, yes you are. Please, oh sacred one, tell us more about our queer identities!

Cissplain my gender, and straightsplain my sexuality.

[Iciaros]

More gatekeeping hurts the trans community.

Gatekeeping is a necessary action to ensure order, stability, and consistency. Look at what a mess feminism became due to people waiting to gatekeep until it was too late to do anything: they got, among many other things, TERFs from not doing so.

Personally, I would disagree at least partially, mainly in terms of the differences between feminism and transgenderism. Gatekeeping could be construed as necessary to prevent a movement from being co-opted by splinter groups advocating for a warped or extreme version of the movement's core goals and ideals. That would make it applicable to feminism. Transgenderism, not so much, because it's not a movement in the same way feminism is. Feminism sought to change the world, whereas transgenderism merely seeks to give a name to an existing state of affairs. Gatekeeping could still be relevant here, in the sense of ensuring that transgenderism is used to describe the correct state of affairs, but the nature of being transgender is that of an individual experience, as opposed to a social movement, and therefore attempting to perfectly define its precise contours is essentially impossible. We may be best served by leaving the gatekeeping to basically the very barebones essence of transgenderism (identifying with something other than one's biological gender) and acknowledging the nature of being transgender as individual and varied, unlike a social movement which must necessarily unite its members behind a commonly defined cause.

That's my opinion, at least. I also concur with the others above me that if anyone ought to be doing gatekeeping in any case, it should be those who are intimately familiar with at least one experience of being transgender. At least that way one could make more informed decisions about said gatekeeping.

[Dumb Ideologies]

I know this is a divisive topic but it weren't me who brought it up this time, officer!

I'd be very surprised if a plurality of the neopronoun gang at the very least aren't trenders.

When you've got the already-in-circulation "they" if you don't want he or she, it takes a certain kind of pretentious vanity and entitlement to believe that everyone you meet should learn a new set of pronouns for you specifically because you're so unique and different.

When your decisions are seemingly calculated to draw as much attention as possible when you don't need to then you're probably being an attention-seeker. Can't think of a nicer way to put it.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

"Transtrending" is such a bullshit fucking thing, I swear. Not bullshit as in, "it's bullshit that this is something people do," of course, but bullshit as in, "it's bullshit that unknowledgeable people treat this like a serious thing afflicting the LGBTQ+ community".

While it is true most transgender people I've met seem to not fit the label of "transtrender," there do exist some people who seem like conventional straight people who present as their assigned gender, show no evident signs of gender dysphoria, yet identify as trans. For example, a conventional looking man who calls themselves trans because they put "any pronouns" in their Twitter bio. It seems to me like those types of people are in it more for the trend of it than out of a deep longing to be of a gender other than that which they were assigned.

Also, what DI said, it's time for xi/zem/xenoself to be stopped.