Cekoviu wrote:I would yet again like to note that there is a feminism thread; please don't drag that stupid topic into our space.
I'm pretty sure that thread is defunct. Otherwise, i'd be more than happy to move the discussion there.
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by West Leas Oros 2 » Fri May 17, 2019 12:50 pm
Cekoviu wrote:I would yet again like to note that there is a feminism thread; please don't drag that stupid topic into our space.
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by Cekoviu » Fri May 17, 2019 12:51 pm
by Nanatsu no Tsuki » Fri May 17, 2019 12:53 pm
West Leas Oros 2 wrote:Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
It ties in into what you said and Bienhalde. She’s violent because men, he said. It strips a woman of agency. This is not denying that yes, it’s also a way in which people consciously or unconsciously absolve her of responsibility. It’s also an excuse she can use to absolve herself of the consequences of her behavior. I’m not absolving anyone however. I’m telling you what this view point does.
I see. You know, not to get all "Horseshoes" on you, but there's a lot of ideals that are shared between the extreme feminists and the... patriarchyists? They view the same thing, but draw opposite conclusions. In a similar vein though, those campaigning for equality share views as well. Shame they side with the supremacists of their own identity rather than cross the identity line.
Slava Ukraini
Also: THERNSY!!
Your story isn't over;֍Help save transgender people's lives֍Help for feral cats
Cat with internet access||Supposedly heartless, & a d*ck.||Is maith an t-earra an tsíocháin.||No TGsRIP: Dyakovo & Ashmoria
by Cekoviu » Fri May 17, 2019 12:54 pm
by Dumb Ideologies » Fri May 17, 2019 12:56 pm
by West Leas Oros 2 » Fri May 17, 2019 12:57 pm
Dumb Ideologies wrote:Cekoviu wrote:Seems like the last one got locked, oddly. My bad.
Regardless, it is not a topic related to trans people specifically, and you should make a thread to talk about it rather than invading the trans thread.
There's no "invasion" going on. The OP and others raised toxic masculinity as a possible reasons for why a transman could have done a shooting. Some conversation on the wider utility of the term then arose organically from that.
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by Des-Bal » Fri May 17, 2019 12:58 pm
Cekoviu wrote:It's rather difficult to study minutiae of identity scientifically when we don't even understand human identity itself. From every one of my experiences, I have seen nothing to discredit it, while I know many people who don't fit into a strictly binarist view.
Cekoviu wrote:DES-BAL: Introverted, blunt, focused, utilitarian. Hard to read; not verbose online or likely in real life. Places little emphasis on interpersonal relationships, particularly with online strangers for whom the investment would outweigh the returns.
Desired perception: Logical, intellectual
Public perception: Neutral-positive - blunt, cold, logical, skilled at debating
Mindset: Logos
by Cekoviu » Fri May 17, 2019 12:59 pm
Dumb Ideologies wrote:Cekoviu wrote:Seems like the last one got locked, oddly. My bad.
Regardless, it is not a topic related to trans people specifically, and you should make a thread to talk about it rather than invading the trans thread.
There's no "invasion" going on. The OP and others raised toxic masculinity as a possible reasons for why a transman could have done a shooting. Some conversation on the wider utility of the term then arose organically from that.
There's no "co-opting" going on. Hindus and others created swastikas as a religious symbol. Usage of it as a Nazi military symbol arose organically from that.
by Cekoviu » Fri May 17, 2019 1:00 pm
Des-Bal wrote:Cekoviu wrote:It's rather difficult to study minutiae of identity scientifically when we don't even understand human identity itself. From every one of my experiences, I have seen nothing to discredit it, while I know many people who don't fit into a strictly binarist view.
Why don't they fit in?
by Des-Bal » Fri May 17, 2019 1:01 pm
Cekoviu wrote:Either they lack gender, are between genders, or are both genders.
Cekoviu wrote:DES-BAL: Introverted, blunt, focused, utilitarian. Hard to read; not verbose online or likely in real life. Places little emphasis on interpersonal relationships, particularly with online strangers for whom the investment would outweigh the returns.
Desired perception: Logical, intellectual
Public perception: Neutral-positive - blunt, cold, logical, skilled at debating
Mindset: Logos
by Cekoviu » Fri May 17, 2019 1:03 pm
by Nanatsu no Tsuki » Fri May 17, 2019 1:04 pm
Cekoviu wrote:Dumb Ideologies wrote:
There's no "invasion" going on. The OP and others raised toxic masculinity as a possible reasons for why a transman could have done a shooting. Some conversation on the wider utility of the term then arose organically from that.
Yes, which has caused non-regular posters to enter the thread and hijack it into being about nothing related to trans people anymore.There's no "co-opting" going on. Hindus and others created swastikas as a religious symbol. Usage of it as a Nazi military symbol arose organically from that.
Slava Ukraini
Also: THERNSY!!
Your story isn't over;֍Help save transgender people's lives֍Help for feral cats
Cat with internet access||Supposedly heartless, & a d*ck.||Is maith an t-earra an tsíocháin.||No TGsRIP: Dyakovo & Ashmoria
by West Leas Oros 2 » Fri May 17, 2019 1:07 pm
Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:Cekoviu wrote:Yes, which has caused non-regular posters to enter the thread and hijack it into being about nothing related to trans people anymore.
I disagree as this topic affects transgender people too. Trans women are victims of the concept of toxic masculinity too. But if you don’t want the discussion here, I’d be more than happy to stop.
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by Des-Bal » Fri May 17, 2019 1:07 pm
Cekoviu wrote:I have no idea, as I've not studied them. However, given the lack of evidence to the contrary, I'm inclined to believe them.
In a legal case, you believe a witness's testimony if their story checks out with the evidence (or lack of it). Same applies here. Obviously not definitive proof of anything, but my own personal beliefs are dictated in part by my experiences, as are yours.
Cekoviu wrote:DES-BAL: Introverted, blunt, focused, utilitarian. Hard to read; not verbose online or likely in real life. Places little emphasis on interpersonal relationships, particularly with online strangers for whom the investment would outweigh the returns.
Desired perception: Logical, intellectual
Public perception: Neutral-positive - blunt, cold, logical, skilled at debating
Mindset: Logos
by Cekoviu » Fri May 17, 2019 1:10 pm
Des-Bal wrote:Cekoviu wrote:I have no idea, as I've not studied them. However, given the lack of evidence to the contrary, I'm inclined to believe them.
In a legal case, you believe a witness's testimony if their story checks out with the evidence (or lack of it). Same applies here. Obviously not definitive proof of anything, but my own personal beliefs are dictated in part by my experiences, as are yours.
There is no reason to believe them, because there's no reason to believe that that's a thing that can happen. If a witness presents testimony that rests on something that no evidence suggests is possible happening
then that witness would be ripped to shreds. You also have to note that this particular witness testimony is coming from someone with no reference point, they only know what it's like to be them they wouldn't actually know the difference between having and not having a gender.
My personal beliefs are dictated by my experiences and by evidence. Where my beliefs are not substantiated by evidence I treat it as a mistake.
by Nanatsu no Tsuki » Fri May 17, 2019 1:15 pm
West Leas Oros 2 wrote:Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
I disagree as this topic affects transgender people too. Trans women are victims of the concept of toxic masculinity too. But if you don’t want the discussion here, I’d be more than happy to stop.
I think we should move this topic to a different thread, but i'm not about to step up and do that.
Slava Ukraini
Also: THERNSY!!
Your story isn't over;֍Help save transgender people's lives֍Help for feral cats
Cat with internet access||Supposedly heartless, & a d*ck.||Is maith an t-earra an tsíocháin.||No TGsRIP: Dyakovo & Ashmoria
by West Leas Oros 2 » Fri May 17, 2019 1:15 pm
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by Des-Bal » Fri May 17, 2019 1:17 pm
Cekoviu wrote:No evidence suggests it couldn't happen, though. There is no adequate scientific evidence for or against a gender binary.
I mean, that means you also cannot tell me that whatever your gender is is different from any other or whether it really exists, since you don't know the difference between having a gender and not having a gender. This kind of invalidates your argument as well.
That's what everybody likes to tell themselves.
Cekoviu wrote:DES-BAL: Introverted, blunt, focused, utilitarian. Hard to read; not verbose online or likely in real life. Places little emphasis on interpersonal relationships, particularly with online strangers for whom the investment would outweigh the returns.
Desired perception: Logical, intellectual
Public perception: Neutral-positive - blunt, cold, logical, skilled at debating
Mindset: Logos
by Dumb Ideologies » Fri May 17, 2019 1:17 pm
Cekoviu wrote:Dumb Ideologies wrote:
There's no "invasion" going on. The OP and others raised toxic masculinity as a possible reasons for why a transman could have done a shooting. Some conversation on the wider utility of the term then arose organically from that.
Yes, which has caused non-regular posters to enter the thread and hijack it into being about nothing related to trans people anymore.There's no "co-opting" going on. Hindus and others created swastikas as a religious symbol. Usage of it as a Nazi military symbol arose organically from that.
by Cappuccina » Fri May 17, 2019 1:39 pm
Cekoviu wrote:I would yet again like to note that there is a feminism thread; please don't drag that stupid topic into our space.
by Cekoviu » Fri May 17, 2019 2:10 pm
by Dumb Ideologies » Fri May 17, 2019 2:17 pm
by Soviet Tankistan » Fri May 17, 2019 2:57 pm
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