TDT 4: What the $#@! is a "womxn", anyways?

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Perhaps I am using the term wrongly. I'll admit it if I said it wrong and apologize.

I was talking MtF transperson to be a transwoman, IE, they transitioned to being a woman and therefore are a woman.
I was talking TtM transperson to be a transman, IE, they transitioned to being a man and therefore are a man.

Is this incorrect terminology?

look up transmisogyny and then come back and apologize. thanks.

I think you should chill and also apologize. You’re being very unpleasant when no one is trying to offend you and he already apologized.

[Galloism]

Perhaps I am using the term wrongly. I'll admit it if I said it wrong and apologize.

I was talking MtF transperson to be a transwoman, IE, they transitioned to being a woman and therefore are a woman.
I was talking TtM transperson to be a transman, IE, they transitioned to being a man and therefore are a man.

Is this incorrect terminology?

That's mostly correct, although I think you accidentally typed TtM rather than FtM. However, you need to have a space between trans and man/woman.

I shall make the appropriate corrections.

(And I did mistype FtM to TtM, my bad).

Trans men don't suffer from transmisogyny, because that's bigotry against trans women.

I'd say that has to do with motivations, wouldn't you?

Is the person doing the hating hating them because they see them as men, or because they see them as women?

[Mettaton-EX]

look up transmisogyny and then come back and apologize. thanks.

I think you should chill and also apologize. You’re being very unpleasant when no one is trying to offend you and he already apologized.

unpleasantness towards sexist transphobes is a good thing actually

[Torrocca]

Nope, that's correct. You claimed, however, transmisogyny is typically experienced by transmen, even though it's hate against transwomen.

Because the person doing the hating sees them as a woman, and hates them on that basis, essentially.

... That has literally nothing to do with transmisogyny.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

I think you should chill and also apologize. You’re being very unpleasant when no one is trying to offend you and he already apologized.

unpleasantness towards sexist transphobes is a good thing actually

Again, he’s not being a transphobe.

[Mettaton-EX]

unpleasantness towards sexist transphobes is a good thing actually

Again, he’s not being a transphobe.

he very much is. thanks for conceding he's a sexist though, that on its own is enough

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Again, he’s not being a transphobe.

he very much is. thanks for conceding he's a sexist though, that on its own is enough

If he were a transphobe do you think he’d be here having a civil exchange with other transgender posters?

[Mettaton-EX]

he very much is. thanks for conceding he's a sexist though, that on its own is enough

If he were a transphobe do you think he’d be here having a civil exchange with other transgender posters?

if he weren't a transphobe do you think he'd be here willfully lying about transphobia?

[Torrocca]

he very much is. thanks for conceding he's a sexist though, that on its own is enough

If he were a transphobe do you think he’d be here having a civil exchange with other transgender posters?

TBF, somebody who holds bigoted ideas toward groups of people can still play civility politics even with the people they're bigoted against.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

If he were a transphobe do you think he’d be here having a civil exchange with other transgender posters?

if he weren't a transphobe do you think he'd be here willfully lying about transphobia?

Again, read his posts to Torrocca and you’ll see he’s not being transphobic.

[Galloism]

Because the person doing the hating sees them as a woman, and hates them on that basis, essentially.

... That has literally nothing to do with transmisogyny.

I mean, i guess you could twist it around so transmen suffer transmisandry while transwomen suffer transmisogyny, based on the gender status of the victim and not the beliefs of the perpetrator.

But that just requires an extra layer of explanation and analysis to something that's more simply (and rationally) explained by starting with the beliefs and actions of the perpetrator.

Because this hate usually comes from the fact that they're seen as the thing they are not by the person doing the hating.

[Mettaton-EX]

if he weren't a transphobe do you think he'd be here willfully lying about transphobia?

Again, read his posts to Torrocca and you’ll see he’s not being transphobic.

i have read them and willfully lying about transphobia, which he does in those posts, is in fact transphobic

[Des-Bal]

unpleasantness towards sexist transphobes is a good thing actually

Your definition of sexist transphobes seems to revolve exclusively around word choice on the part of someone who, to my knowledge, has never expressed a single negative opinion about women or transgender people. You find some kind of power in being offended and you're posturing. This entire display rings hollow.

[Torrocca]

... That has literally nothing to do with transmisogyny.

I mean, i guess you could twist it around so transmen suffer transmisandry while transwomen suffer transmisogyny, based on the status of the victim and not the beliefs of the perpetrator.

But that just requires an extra layer of explanation and analysis to something that's more simply (and rationally) explained by starting with the beliefs and actions of the perpetrator.

... It's literally not twisting anything around. Transmisogyny is bigotry toward trans women, and transmisandry is bigotry toward trans men. There's no other way about it.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

If he were a transphobe do you think he’d be here having a civil exchange with other transgender posters?

TBF, somebody who holds bigoted ideas toward groups of people can still play civility politics even with the people they're bigoted against.

But he’s not a transphobe. I wouldn’t tolerate such a conduct coming from my own SO as it would betray my convictions. You don’t have to believe me, of course. But I know he’s not being one.

[Mettaton-EX]

not to mention his whole schtick here is the exact same kind of divide-and-conquer technique that evangelicals and terfs are using.
trying to drive a wedge between trans activism and feminism is transphobic. antifeminism is transphobic. sorry!

[Torrocca]

TBF, somebody who holds bigoted ideas toward groups of people can still play civility politics even with the people they're bigoted against.

But he’s not a transphobe. I wouldn’t tolerate such a conduct coming from my own SO as it would betray my convictions. You don’t have to believe me, of course. But I know he’s not being one.

I wasn't calling Gallo a transphobe, though. :V

[Kowani]

TBF, somebody who holds bigoted ideas toward groups of people can still play civility politics even with the people they're bigoted against.

But he’s not a transphobe. I wouldn’t tolerate such a conduct coming from my own SO as it would betray my convictions. You don’t have to believe me, of course. But I know he’s not being one.

¿Espérate, sois enamoraos?

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

But he’s not a transphobe. I wouldn’t tolerate such a conduct coming from my own SO as it would betray my convictions. You don’t have to believe me, of course. But I know he’s not being one.

I wasn't calling Gallo a transphobe, though. :V

I know you’re not, Torra, but another poster is.

[Des-Bal]

not to mention his whole schtick here is the exact same kind of divide-and-conquer technique that evangelicals and terfs are using.
trying to drive a wedge between trans activism and feminism is transphobic. antifeminism is transphobic. sorry!

Oh you mean calling people sexist and transphobic because they disagree with you on technical level about the source of bigotry transgender people face? You are attacking someone who you do not seem to have a single major point of disagreement with.

Someone is going to kick a transgender person in the face and you're not going to know what to call it.

... It's literally not twisting anything around. Transmisogyny is bigotry toward trans women, and transmisandry is bigotry toward trans men. There's no other way about it.

If someone hates and distrusts a jewish person because they think they're muslim is it islamaphobia or antisemitism?

[Torrocca]

I wasn't calling Gallo a transphobe, though. :V

I know you’re not, Torra, but another poster is.

Righto, fair enough.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

But he’s not a transphobe. I wouldn’t tolerate such a conduct coming from my own SO as it would betray my convictions. You don’t have to believe me, of course. But I know he’s not being one.

¿Espérate, sois enamoraos?

Venga, pa’ que te enteres. Mi esposo, ya va para 10 años.

[Galloism]

I mean, i guess you could twist it around so transmen suffer transmisandry while transwomen suffer transmisogyny, based on the status of the victim and not the beliefs of the perpetrator.

But that just requires an extra layer of explanation and analysis to something that's more simply (and rationally) explained by starting with the beliefs and actions of the perpetrator.

... It's literally not twisting anything around. Transmisogyny is bigotry toward trans women, and transmisandry is bigotry toward trans men. There's no other way about it.

That would seem to mask the true motivations of the hate, though.

After all, what you call transmisogyny (and the previously cited examples of using the gendered slur of toxic masculinity as a concept to engage in it) is not motivated by hatred of women, where the root "misogyny" comes from. It's from viewing them as a man invading and hatred of, what they view as, a man in the wrong place.

Transmisogyny would seem to imply it's motivated by hatred of women, when in fact it's motivated by hatred of men.

Admittedly, this bothers me largely linguistically.

[Torrocca]

not to mention his whole schtick here is the exact same kind of divide-and-conquer technique that evangelicals and terfs are using

Oh you mean calling people sexist and transphobic because they disagree with you on technical level about the source of bigotry transgender people face? You are attacking someone who you do not seem to have a single major point of disagreement with.

... It's literally not twisting anything around. Transmisogyny is bigotry toward trans women, and transmisandry is bigotry toward trans men. There's no other way about it.

If someone hates and distrusts a jewish person because they think they're muslim is it islamaphobia or antisemitism?

Anti-Semitism caused by Islamaphobic ideas.

Similarly, a trans woman or a trans man perceiving hatred because they're perceived to be a man or a woman would still ultimately be transmisogyny or transmisandry, respectively, but caused by misandrist or misogynist ideas.

[Kowani]

¿Espérate, sois enamoraos?

Venga, pa’ que te enteres. Mi esposo, ya va para 10 años.

Â, va. Un poquitín tarde, pero felicidades.