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New US Sanctions on Cuba - and Venezuela related discuss

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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New US Cuban Sanctions Related to Venezuela - Vote and Post your views - Discuss Poll options

01 - we support the activation of title 3 of the Helms Burton embargo law signed by President Bill Clinton allowing Cuban Americans, American citizens and Corporations to sue European, Canadian and other Foreign Businesses dealing with the Cuban government through American confiscated properties in Cuba, and Confiscated Cuban American Properties in Cuba.
14
8%
02 - we oppose the activation of title 3 of the Helms Burton Embargo law signed by President Bill Clinton.
30
16%
03 - we support American sanctions on Venezuelan and foreign corporations shipping oil to Cuba.
14
8%
04 - we oppose American sanctions on Venezuelan and foreign corporations shipping oil to Cuba.
26
14%
05 - we support the new restrictions of Cuban American family remittances and care packages to Cuba no matter how mild the new restrictions are, which are actually very mild.
7
4%
06 - we oppose the new restrictions of Cuban American family remittances and care packages to Cuba no matter how mild the new restrictions are.
24
13%
07 - we support the new restrictions on Cuban visitor visas and emigration visas to the USA no matter how mild the new restrictions are, which are actually very mild.
8
4%
08 - we oppose the new restrictions on Cuban visitor visas and emigration visas to the USA.
30
16%
09 - The Cuban government are the real hardline intransigents not the Cuban American Community, and they just created a new Cuban constitution declaring the Communist party as the only political party allowed guiding the nation and the revolution, which is irrevocable, all that language is in the new constitution, discuss the new Cuban constitution.
15
8%
10 - Cuba is already a democratic communist socialist democracy and state, it does not need to change anything, and they just created a new democratic Cuban constitution, discuss the new Cuban constitution, the Cuban American community are the real hardline intransigents.
17
9%
 
Total votes : 185

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The Greater Ohio Valley
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Posts: 4163
Founded: Jan 19, 2013
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The Greater Ohio Valley » Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:50 pm

Yusseria wrote:Sounds justified. Venezuela honestly needs a military coup.

CIA, work your magic. Pinochet Part 2.

Nah, the world doesn’t need anymore Pinochet’s or any other member of the anti-freedom brigade.
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Greater Miami Shores and La Habana Cuba
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 471
Founded: Jan 21, 2018
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Greater Miami Shores and La Habana Cuba » Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:54 pm

The Greater Ohio Valley wrote:
Yusseria wrote:Sounds justified. Venezuela honestly needs a military coup.

CIA, work your magic. Pinochet Part 2.

Nah, the world doesn’t need anymore Pinochet’s or any other member of the anti-freedom brigade.

lol, the world and Cuba doesn't need any more Fidel's, Raúl's, Diaz-Canel's and Maduros, lol.
lol. I will never take any fellow nation before the Mod Gods and our Almighty Goddess Violet for any reasons even if it is against me. I will never tell any fellow nation what to post what not to post or how to post it especially on their own threads or any threads how dare I. No I am not saint perfect only God is. Am RP addict with real world nations regional named nations real world leaders and statistics Love math accounting percentages % bookkeeping facts and figures RPs history geography and biographies. Cuba is my pet issue on NS for obvious reasons, President Obama's Policies on Cuba is the same policy of Canada, the EU Nations, Hispanic Nations and others of Appeasement that doesn't work for obvious reasons. lol.

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Deutschess Kaiserreich
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Posts: 1486
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Ex-Nation

Postby Deutschess Kaiserreich » Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:57 pm

God damn it US. I love my cigars and fine Cuban brandy! Now I gotta pay more to my dealer.
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Greater Miami Shores and La Habana Cuba
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 471
Founded: Jan 21, 2018
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Greater Miami Shores and La Habana Cuba » Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:00 pm

Deutschess Kaiserreich wrote:God damn it US. I love my cigars and fine Cuban brandy! Now I gotta pay more to my dealer.

Interesting.
lol. I will never take any fellow nation before the Mod Gods and our Almighty Goddess Violet for any reasons even if it is against me. I will never tell any fellow nation what to post what not to post or how to post it especially on their own threads or any threads how dare I. No I am not saint perfect only God is. Am RP addict with real world nations regional named nations real world leaders and statistics Love math accounting percentages % bookkeeping facts and figures RPs history geography and biographies. Cuba is my pet issue on NS for obvious reasons, President Obama's Policies on Cuba is the same policy of Canada, the EU Nations, Hispanic Nations and others of Appeasement that doesn't work for obvious reasons. lol.

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The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp
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Founded: Dec 18, 2013
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp » Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:04 pm

That is a long poll.

Anyway, we where so close to just accepting what Cuba is nowadays with Obama.

Just give it up with the sanctions already, Cuba isn't going to change.
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Greater La Habana Cuba and Miami Shores
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Founded: Dec 30, 2018
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Greater La Habana Cuba and Miami Shores » Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:08 pm

The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:That is a long poll.

Anyway, we where so close to just accepting what Cuba is nowadays with Obama.

Just give it up with the sanctions already, Cuba isn't going to change.

That is a long poll with good pro and con opposite options. So you want Cuba to live under the eternal one political party state revolution forever?
Last edited by Greater La Habana Cuba and Miami Shores on Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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The Greater Ohio Valley
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Posts: 4163
Founded: Jan 19, 2013
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The Greater Ohio Valley » Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:15 pm

Greater Miami Shores and La Habana Cuba wrote:
The Greater Ohio Valley wrote:Nah, the world doesn’t need anymore Pinochet’s or any other member of the anti-freedom brigade.

lol, the world and Cuba doesn't need any more Fidel's, Raúl's, Diaz-Canel's and Maduros, lol.

I’m not for any of them either, I’m against totalitarianism wholesale and don’t want any of the anti-freedom brigade put into power. Trading one autocratic dictator for another is fascistic garbage.
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right-wingers: wat about vuvuzelaaa lmao gottem

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The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp » Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:16 pm

Greater La Habana Cuba and Miami Shores wrote:
The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:That is a long poll.

Anyway, we where so close to just accepting what Cuba is nowadays with Obama.

Just give it up with the sanctions already, Cuba isn't going to change.

That is a long poll with good pro and con opposite options. So you want Cuba to live under the eternal one political party state revolution forever?


I'm just saying, it's kinda long.

No, I don't necessarily want that, I just accept that it's going to be like that for a long time with no changes in the near or distant future.

Could it be better? Yes. Will it change? Most likely not.

Might as well make a little money from it by allowing trade and tourism.
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Novus America
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Founded: Jun 02, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Novus America » Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:27 pm

The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:That is a long poll.

Anyway, we where so close to just accepting what Cuba is nowadays with Obama.

Just give it up with the sanctions already, Cuba isn't going to change.


If Cuba will not change then why should we change?
Why should we trade with Cuba? We have a right to choose who we do and do not want to trade with. We should not trade with hostile governments.
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

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Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. Pragmatism is my ideology.

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Novus America
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Novus America » Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:28 pm

The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:
Greater La Habana Cuba and Miami Shores wrote:That is a long poll with good pro and con opposite options. So you want Cuba to live under the eternal one political party state revolution forever?


I'm just saying, it's kinda long.

No, I don't necessarily want that, I just accept that it's going to be like that for a long time with no changes in the near or distant future.

Could it be better? Yes. Will it change? Most likely not.

Might as well make a little money from it by allowing trade and tourism.


Giving a dictatorship money only makes it stronger!
That would make things worse.

Did we learn nothing from China?
Last edited by Novus America on Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. Pragmatism is my ideology.

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The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp
Post Czar
 
Posts: 31228
Founded: Dec 18, 2013
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp » Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:32 pm

Novus America wrote:
The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:That is a long poll.

Anyway, we where so close to just accepting what Cuba is nowadays with Obama.

Just give it up with the sanctions already, Cuba isn't going to change.


If Cuba will not change then why should we change?
Why should we trade with Cuba? We have a right to choose who we do and do not want to trade with. We should not trade with hostile governments.

Because it's free money.

You are actively making the economy of both nations worse by not trading with them.

Besides, the US is trading with Saudi Arabia and a bunch of other tin pot dictatorships worse then Cuba.

The president is in huge conferences with NK, a country thats a thousand times worse then Cuba.


At least Cuba isn't trying to build nukes. Whats one more nation that gives the US a bunch of free money and GDP growth?
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Gormwood
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Founded: Mar 25, 2019
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Postby Gormwood » Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:33 pm

The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:That is a long poll.

Anyway, we where so close to just accepting what Cuba is nowadays with Obama.

Just give it up with the sanctions already, Cuba isn't going to change.

Some people long for the days when Cuba was an easily exploited mafia state with no regard for the wellbeing of the average Cuban people.

On a side note, the sanctions are amusingly hypocritical given allegations of how the Trump Organization conducted business with Cuba despite the Embargo being active.
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Greater La Habana Cuba and Miami Shores
Envoy
 
Posts: 226
Founded: Dec 30, 2018
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Greater La Habana Cuba and Miami Shores » Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:36 pm

The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:
Greater La Habana Cuba and Miami Shores wrote:That is a long poll with good pro and con opposite options. So you want Cuba to live under the eternal one political party state revolution forever?


I'm just saying, it's kinda long.

No, I don't necessarily want that, I just accept that it's going to be like that for a long time with no changes in the near or distant future.

Could it be better? Yes. Will it change? Most likely not.

Might as well make a little money from it by allowing trade and tourism.


I believe you 100 % when you say you don't necessarily want that, and the Heck with the Cuban people like my family still in Cuba, but that is your right to say it and post it, but why not say you don't want that.

I agree with you, the Cuban government leaders will not change Cuba into any kind of western style democracy with all its merits and faults unless they have no choice, Trade, Tourists, Cultural Exchange and diplomatic support from the western style democratic nations have not worked either for obvious reasons, it is called appeasement, the same policy of the EU, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Japan, the Hispanic nations and others, including Hungary under right wing Prime Minister of Hungary Viktor Orbán which I support, including President Trump because they are not anything like a real dictator, lol, my favorite expression not an actual lol most of the time.

The Cuban government trades with almost all nations in the world, including limited trade and improved relatiosn with the USA, thanks in part to President Obama, so much for the US American embargo.
Last edited by Greater La Habana Cuba and Miami Shores on Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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First American Empire
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Founded: Mar 12, 2019
Libertarian Police State

Postby First American Empire » Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:38 pm

Greater Miami Shores and La Habana Cuba wrote:While the Cuban people are suffering shortages of eggs, chicken, rice, pork, cooking oil, bread, toilet paper, and other products, while the foreign tourist hotel resorts have everything, these shortages have even been reported on the Cuban government news media, lol.


Which could easily be fixed by lifting the embargo.
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The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp
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Founded: Dec 18, 2013
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp » Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:41 pm

Greater La Habana Cuba and Miami Shores wrote:
The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:
I'm just saying, it's kinda long.

No, I don't necessarily want that, I just accept that it's going to be like that for a long time with no changes in the near or distant future.

Could it be better? Yes. Will it change? Most likely not.

Might as well make a little money from it by allowing trade and tourism.


I believe you 100 % when you say you don't necessarily want that, and the Heck with the Cuban people like my family still in Cuba, but that is your right to say it and post it, but why not say you don't want that.

I agree with you, the Cuban government leaders will not change Cuba into any kind of western style democracy with all its merits and faults unless they have no choice, Trade, Tourists, Cultural Exchange and diplomatic support from the western style democratic nations have not worked either for obvious reasons, it is called appeasement, the same policy of the EU, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Japan, the Hispanic nations and others, including Hungary under right wing Prime Minister of Hungary Viktor Orbán which I support, including President Trump because they are not anything like a real dictator, lol, my favorite expression not an actual lol most of the time.

The Cuban government trades with almost all nations in the world, including limited trade and improved relatiosn with the USA, thanks in part to President Obama, so much for the US American embargo.


Yeah, that's why I'm for just getting rid of the embargo all together.
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Greater La Habana Cuba and Miami Shores
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Founded: Dec 30, 2018
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Greater La Habana Cuba and Miami Shores » Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:46 pm

First American Empire wrote:
Greater Miami Shores and La Habana Cuba wrote:While the Cuban people are suffering shortages of eggs, chicken, rice, pork, cooking oil, bread, toilet paper, and other products, while the foreign tourist hotel resorts have everything, these shortages have even been reported on the Cuban government news media, lol.


Which could easily be fixed by lifting the embargo.

lol, the Cuban government trades with the EU Nations, the EU, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Japan, the Hispanic nations and others, they trade with almost all nations in the world, and their are still shortages in Cuba of eggs, chicken, rice pork, cooking oil, bread toilet paper and other products while the foreign tourist hotels and resorts and the undemocratic privileged, hardline, intransigent, military government Mafia elite live like rich, communist, socialist, capitalists, see the link and posts that proves my point. How about supporting democracy in Cuba like in Venezuela or any other nation in the world.

They have limited trade and tourist relations with the USA and Cuban Americans send, family remittances and care packages to their families in Cuba, who do you all think pay for the cell phones Cubans in Cuba are now allowed to own, the Cuban Americans, the anti social, anti democratic, gusano worms, escoria scums Miami Mafia elements like myself, as they call us.

According to the Cuban government telephone company which covers the internet services as well, at least 30 % of the cell phone accounts are paid for directly by Cuban Americans, and most of the other 70 % are covered by Cuban American family remittances, another triumph of the revolution, of the eternal revolution.

Cuban Americans buy and re charge the cell phone accounts of Cubans in Cuba, another triumph of the revolution.

https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1151276
Last edited by Greater La Habana Cuba and Miami Shores on Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:56 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Novus America
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Novus America » Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:49 pm

Gormwood wrote:
The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:That is a long poll.

Anyway, we where so close to just accepting what Cuba is nowadays with Obama.

Just give it up with the sanctions already, Cuba isn't going to change.

Some people long for the days when Cuba was an easily exploited mafia state with no regard for the wellbeing of the average Cuban people.

On a side note, the sanctions are amusingly hypocritical given allegations of how the Trump Organization conducted business with Cuba despite the Embargo being active.


Cuba still is a mafia state with no regard for the Cuban people.
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. Pragmatism is my ideology.

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Gormwood
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Founded: Mar 25, 2019
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Gormwood » Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:53 pm

Novus America wrote:
Gormwood wrote:Some people long for the days when Cuba was an easily exploited mafia state with no regard for the wellbeing of the average Cuban people.

On a side note, the sanctions are amusingly hypocritical given allegations of how the Trump Organization conducted business with Cuba despite the Embargo being active.


Cuba still is a mafia state with no regard for the Cuban people.

If American corporations profitted from it instead of the Cuban government nobody would be complaining about the mafia state. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Novus America
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Novus America » Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:58 pm

The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:
Novus America wrote:
If Cuba will not change then why should we change?
Why should we trade with Cuba? We have a right to choose who we do and do not want to trade with. We should not trade with hostile governments.

Because it's free money.

You are actively making the economy of both nations worse by not trading with them.

Besides, the US is trading with Saudi Arabia and a bunch of other tin pot dictatorships worse then Cuba.

The president is in huge conferences with NK, a country thats a thousand times worse then Cuba.


At least Cuba isn't trying to build nukes. Whats one more nation that gives the US a bunch of free money and GDP growth?


It is not free money. There is no such thing.
And contrary to the neoliberal religion’s theology, trade is not always beneficial.
Sometimes it is. Sometimes it is not.

Cuba taking money from American customers to buy Russian weapons will result in money leaving the US only to benefit Russia.

Sure our trade with other countries needs to be reassessed as well, but making a mistake with China and Saudi Arabia does not mean we should repeat the same mistake with Cuba.

And given how pathetically small the Cuban economy is likely there would be no real improvement to US GDP.
Also imports are SUBTRACTED from GDP!

However I do agree the embargo as currently structured is completely wrong.
We should ban all Cuban goods from the US but allow Cuba to buy pretty much any American products that are not military and security related.

That would result in us having a trade surplus with Cuba.
Which would actually improve GDP, though the amount would probably be negligible.

Still imports decrease GDP, exports increase GDP.
Last edited by Novus America on Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. Pragmatism is my ideology.

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Greater La Habana Cuba and Miami Shores
Envoy
 
Posts: 226
Founded: Dec 30, 2018
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Greater La Habana Cuba and Miami Shores » Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:59 pm

Gormwood wrote:
Novus America wrote:
Cuba still is a mafia state with no regard for the Cuban people.

If American corporations profitted from it instead of the Cuban government nobody would be complaining about the mafia state. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I agree with you, except for the anti social, anti democratic, gusano worms, escoria scums, hardline intransigent, Cuban American Mafia of Miami elements like myself, La Gusanera, as they call us when they want to put us down, and our overseas Cuban American immigrant community when they want our hard currency money. I have not made up any posts on this thread.
Last edited by Greater La Habana Cuba and Miami Shores on Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Novus America
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Novus America » Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:00 pm

Gormwood wrote:
Novus America wrote:
Cuba still is a mafia state with no regard for the Cuban people.

If American corporations profitted from it instead of the Cuban government nobody would be complaining about the mafia state. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


Eh, one of the reasons Batista fell is will cut off support to his regime.
Unfortunately we failed to ensure a proper transition to a better one.

But a friendly mafia state while still bad is better than a hostile one.
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. Pragmatism is my ideology.

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Kowani
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:03 pm

I thought the Cold War was over.
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Novus America
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Postby Novus America » Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:05 pm

Kowani wrote:I thought the Cold War was over.


You like many people thought wrong.
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. Pragmatism is my ideology.

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Cedoria
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Posts: 5986
Founded: Feb 22, 2014
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Cedoria » Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:06 pm

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:
The New California Republic wrote:The stuff was nationalised almost 60 years ago for fuck's sake...

So? It wasn't rectified. Communists shouldn't just be forgiven for their transgressions.

I'll consent to that if the US-backed murderers and torturers of Latin America are not forgiven theirs and face proper justice for their crimes...

Justice does not mean being put in charge of a new 'humanitarian aid' program so you can do to Venezuela what you did to El Salvador. Funny how this demand for continued aggression only applies when directed at official enemies, come one Liber, you're smarter then that.
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Cedoria
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Cedoria » Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:06 pm

Novus America wrote:
Gormwood wrote:If American corporations profitted from it instead of the Cuban government nobody would be complaining about the mafia state. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


Eh, one of the reasons Batista fell is will cut off support to his regime.
Unfortunately we failed to ensure a proper transition to a better one.

But a friendly mafia state while still bad is better than a hostile one.


Better for you, probably not better for the people living under it.
In real life I am a libertarian socialist/democratic socialist
★Comrade of the Commonwealth of Socialist States (CSS)★
Likes: Freedom of speech, Freedom of Expression, Direct Democracy, Worker Owned Cooperatives, Secularism, Anti-Theism, Freedom of civil disobediance, Libertarian Socialism, Social equity for minorities.

Dislikes: Neo-Conservatism, Neo-Liberalism, Stalinism, Capitalism, American Exceptionalism, Most world leaders, Religious bigotry, Despots of virtually any kind, Imperialism, Putinism, Economic Inequality, Identity Politics, Fascism and assorted far-right movements.



Founding member of The Leftist Assembly

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