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New US Sanctions on Cuba - and Venezuela related discuss

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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New US Cuban Sanctions Related to Venezuela - Vote and Post your views - Discuss Poll options

01 - we support the activation of title 3 of the Helms Burton embargo law signed by President Bill Clinton allowing Cuban Americans, American citizens and Corporations to sue European, Canadian and other Foreign Businesses dealing with the Cuban government through American confiscated properties in Cuba, and Confiscated Cuban American Properties in Cuba.
14
8%
02 - we oppose the activation of title 3 of the Helms Burton Embargo law signed by President Bill Clinton.
30
16%
03 - we support American sanctions on Venezuelan and foreign corporations shipping oil to Cuba.
14
8%
04 - we oppose American sanctions on Venezuelan and foreign corporations shipping oil to Cuba.
26
14%
05 - we support the new restrictions of Cuban American family remittances and care packages to Cuba no matter how mild the new restrictions are, which are actually very mild.
7
4%
06 - we oppose the new restrictions of Cuban American family remittances and care packages to Cuba no matter how mild the new restrictions are.
24
13%
07 - we support the new restrictions on Cuban visitor visas and emigration visas to the USA no matter how mild the new restrictions are, which are actually very mild.
8
4%
08 - we oppose the new restrictions on Cuban visitor visas and emigration visas to the USA.
30
16%
09 - The Cuban government are the real hardline intransigents not the Cuban American Community, and they just created a new Cuban constitution declaring the Communist party as the only political party allowed guiding the nation and the revolution, which is irrevocable, all that language is in the new constitution, discuss the new Cuban constitution.
15
8%
10 - Cuba is already a democratic communist socialist democracy and state, it does not need to change anything, and they just created a new democratic Cuban constitution, discuss the new Cuban constitution, the Cuban American community are the real hardline intransigents.
17
9%
 
Total votes : 185

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Novus America
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Postby Novus America » Fri Apr 19, 2019 4:01 am

Liriena wrote:
Greater La Habana Cuba and Miami Shores wrote:So you support the one political party state eternal revolution for life?

What good have the sanctions and embargoes done? Five decades later, the one-party democracy you seek to depose is not only intact, but just had its mandate revitalized in the new constitution. And to top it off, that same one-party democracy continues to manage to get good things done, which leads to another problem: American-style multi-party capitalist democracy is going to continue to be a hard sell for a lot of people if Cuba continues to be a flawed but often successful state that sometimes even manages to provide for its people better than the United States. When push comes to shove, many people will willingly side with the regime that has been most adept at improving their overall quality of life over the abstract, principled ideals of American liberalism or conservatism.


Well I agree the embargo needs to be reformed, to be only one sided (we sell them (almost) anything we want but buy nothing in return), lifting the sanctions altogether would just be giving to Russian government weapons sales and the Maduro regime. Screw that.

Except Cuba has not. Even its vaunted health care system is ranked lower than the US.
https://www.who.int/healthinfo/paper30.pdf

It’s HDI is much lower. The place with the highest HDI in Latin America?
Puerto Rico.

So it has not provided.

And the referendum on the Constitution was not remotely free or fair.

If Cuba is so awesome for the people why is the population declining as people flee in huge numbers despite being banned from doing so? Huh?
If it is so wonderful why does the government have to force people to stay?

But anyways while the sanctions have not toppled the government they have left it less money to buy weapons and found rebel groups so, there is that.
They still have therefore done good.

China shows making an adversary richer only makes them more a problem.
Last edited by Novus America on Fri Apr 19, 2019 4:34 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Greater La Habana Cuba and Miami Shores
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Postby Greater La Habana Cuba and Miami Shores » Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:10 am

Liriena wrote:
Greater La Habana Cuba and Miami Shores wrote:So you support the one political party state eternal revolution for life?

What good have the sanctions and embargoes done? Five decades later, the one-party democracy you seek to depose is not only intact, but just had its mandate revitalized in the new constitution. And to top it off, that same one-party democracy continues to manage to get good things done, which leads to another problem: American-style multi-party capitalist democracy is going to continue to be a hard sell for a lot of people if Cuba continues to be a flawed but often successful state that sometimes even manages to provide for its people better than the United States. When push comes to shove, many people will willingly side with the regime that has been most adept at improving their overall quality of life over the abstract, principled ideals of American liberalism or conservatism.

I have always stated in one way or another, the main reason the embargo does not work is because it is a one nation embargo not an international embargo like the one against South Africa under apartheid, by the western style democratic nations, while the Cuban government trades with almost all nations of the world.

lol Liriena my friend, that same one-party democracy continues to manage to get good things done, Cuba continues to be a flawed but often successful state that sometimes even manages to provide for its people better than the United States, the regime that has been most adept at improving their overall quality of life over the abstract, principled ideals of American liberalism or conservatism, lol.

I am sure you live well and better than in Cuba in the capitalist nation you live in and post from, whichever it is, did you read my previous post on Cuba I posted to The New California Republic, I did not make any of that post up, I have not made any post up on my Cuba thread.

Throughout the revolution and today their are food shortages, of eggs, chicken, rice, pork, cooking oil, toilet paper and other products, and the Cuban government trades with almost all nations of the world, while the privileged governing elite live like rich communist, socialist capitalists, and the foreign tourist hotels have everything they need, including eggs, chicken, rice, pork, cooking oil and toilet paper.

Most of my family still in Cuba do not have cars, do not have air conditioners in their homes, do you know how hot it gets in Cuba without an air conditioner. They have bikes and walk with their feet, foot, their new cell phones they are now allowed to own, were bought by their Cuban American family in Miami and the USA, they recharge their cell phones for them, or cover them through their family remittances, things you and I and all of us on NS take for granted, another triumph of the revolution, the revolution has made Cuban Americans support their families in Cuba through family remittances, and the hard currency dollar stores, as Fidel once said, if they want to help their families in Cuba let them pay more.

You know the anti social, anti democratic, hardline, intransigent, gusano worms, escoria scums, Miami Mafia elements, La Gusanera as they call us when they want to put us down, and their overseas Cuban American immigrant community when they want our hard currency money.

Cuban Americans and Cubans all over the world have to send their families in Cuba family remittances and care packages, medicines and toilet paper.

As I said on a previous post, that is what I love about you, your sense of humor, and that you speak and post your mind, that is a compliment, what I mean is you defend your views.
Last edited by Greater La Habana Cuba and Miami Shores on Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Asherahan
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Postby Asherahan » Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:11 am

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:
The New California Republic wrote:The stuff was nationalised almost 60 years ago for fuck's sake...

So? It wasn't rectified. Communists shouldn't just be forgiven for their transgressions.

Exactly what a true Imperialist would say.
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Greater La Habana Cuba and Miami Shores
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Postby Greater La Habana Cuba and Miami Shores » Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:19 am

Asherahan wrote:
LiberNovusAmericae wrote:So? It wasn't rectified. Communists shouldn't just be forgiven for their transgressions.

Exactly what a true Imperialist would say.

Capitalists shouldn't just be forgiven for their transgressions, executions, political prisoners, re education camps, exiles all over the world, nationalizations of small and large private businesses, and one political party state eternal revolutions, exactly what Cuba under Fidel, Raúl, Diaz-Canel, and all the communists, socialist governments throughout history have said and done, while the communist, socialists leaders live like rich communist, socialist, capitalists, lol. https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1151276
Last edited by Greater La Habana Cuba and Miami Shores on Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:22 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Asherahan
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Postby Asherahan » Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:22 am

Greater La Habana Cuba and Miami Shores wrote:
Asherahan wrote:Exactly what a true Imperialist would say.

Capitalists shouldn't just be forgiven for their transgressions, executions, political prisoners, re education camps, exiles all over the world, nationalizations of small and large private businesses, and one political party state eternal revolutions, exactly what Cuba under Fidel, Raúl, Diaz-Canel, and all the communists, socialist governments throughout history have said and done, while the communist, socialists leaders live like rich communist, socialist, capitalists, lol.

And what exactly are you planning with replacing the one party state in Cuba with?
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Greater La Habana Cuba and Miami Shores
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Postby Greater La Habana Cuba and Miami Shores » Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:37 am

Asherahan wrote:
Greater La Habana Cuba and Miami Shores wrote:Capitalists shouldn't just be forgiven for their transgressions, executions, political prisoners, re education camps, exiles all over the world, nationalizations of small and large private businesses, and one political party state eternal revolutions, exactly what Cuba under Fidel, Raúl, Diaz-Canel, and all the communists, socialist governments throughout history have said and done, while the communist, socialists leaders live like rich communist, socialist, capitalists, lol.

And what exactly are you planning with replacing the one party state in Cuba with?

With a multi political party state, where democrats, liberals, republicans, conservatives, democratic socialists, social democrats, socialist democrats, libertarians, greeners, communists and others, can run for public office and be elected to Parliament and represented in Parliament, like I assume in the capitalist nation you live in well and are posting from, lol.

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Asherahan
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Postby Asherahan » Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:39 am

Greater La Habana Cuba and Miami Shores wrote:
Asherahan wrote:And what exactly are you planning with replacing the one party state in Cuba with?

With a multi political party state, where democrats, liberals, republicans, conservatives, democratic socialists, social democrats, socialist democrats, libertarians, greeners, communists and others, can run for public office and be elected to Parliament and represented in Parliament, like I assume in the capitalist nation you live in well and are posting from, lol.

Because that worked fantastically in which nation which was a single state party? None?
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Postby Greater La Habana Cuba and Miami Shores » Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:41 am

Asherahan wrote:
Greater La Habana Cuba and Miami Shores wrote:With a multi political party state, where democrats, liberals, republicans, conservatives, democratic socialists, social democrats, socialist democrats, libertarians, greeners, communists and others, can run for public office and be elected to Parliament and represented in Parliament, like I assume in the capitalist nation you live in well and are posting from, lol.

Because that worked fantastically in which nation which was a single state party? None?

To be honest, I don't understand the way you have worded this post? which was a single state party?

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Postby Impaled Nazarene » Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:43 am

Khrushchev should have left the missiles there.
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Postby Greater La Habana Cuba and Miami Shores » Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:45 am

Impaled Nazarene wrote:Khrushchev should have left the missiles there.

You are correct from the side I assume you support, lol.

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Postby Asherahan » Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:45 am

Greater La Habana Cuba and Miami Shores wrote:
Asherahan wrote:Because that worked fantastically in which nation which was a single state party? None?

To be honest, I don't understand the way you have worded this post? which was a single state party?

I am saying that a single party state turning into multiparty democracy always end up going bad.
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Postby Bears Armed » Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:49 am

Asherahan wrote:I am saying that a single party state turning into multiparty democracy always end up going bad.

West Germany after WW2?
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Asherahan
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Postby Asherahan » Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:53 am

Bears Armed wrote:
Asherahan wrote:I am saying that a single party state turning into multiparty democracy always end up going bad.

West Germany after WW2?

Yeah because West Germany had a established Government and State. I don't see a West Cuba around.
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Greater La Habana Cuba and Miami Shores
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Postby Greater La Habana Cuba and Miami Shores » Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:53 am

Asherahan wrote:
Greater La Habana Cuba and Miami Shores wrote:To be honest, I don't understand the way you have worded this post? which was a single state party?

I am saying that a single party state turning into multiparty democracy always end up going bad.

Now I understand, thank you, lol.

So it seems like you are saying, and please correct me if I am wrong, I mean if I have misinterpreted your post, this post, that a multi political party state where, democrats, liberals, republicans, conservatives, democratic socialists, social democrats, socialist democrats, libertarians, greeners, communists and others, can run for public office and be elected to Parliament and represented in Parliament, like I assume in the capitalist nation you live in well and are posting from, its a bad thing and a worst thing than a one political party state, where only communists or socialist views are allowed to be represented in Parliament like in Cuba, if that is the case, I have to lol.
Last edited by Greater La Habana Cuba and Miami Shores on Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Novus America
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Postby Novus America » Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:56 am

Impaled Nazarene wrote:Khrushchev should have left the missiles there.


Then there would be no Castro regime. Possibly no Soviet Union either.
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Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. Pragmatism is my ideology.

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Asherahan
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Postby Asherahan » Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:57 am

Greater La Habana Cuba and Miami Shores wrote:
Asherahan wrote:I am saying that a single party state turning into multiparty democracy always end up going bad.

Now I understand, thank you, lol.

So it seems like you are saying, and please correct me if I am wrong, I mean if I have misinterpreted your post, this post, that a multi political party state where, democrats, liberals, republicans, conservatives, democratic socialists, social democrats, socialist democrats, libertarians, greeners, communists and others, can run for public office and be elected to Parliament and represented in Parliament, like I assume in the capitalist nation you live in well and are posting from, its a bad thing and a worst thing than a one political party state, where only communists or socialist views are allowed to be represented in Parliament, if that is the case, I have to lol.

Probably because I want such a thing for my Country but besides that what is your answer on the only actual problem with this shitty plan you want to impose on Cuba?

You know that Cuba has no infrastructure to create a Multiparty Western Democracy anywhere.
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Asherahan
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Postby Asherahan » Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:57 am

Novus America wrote:
Impaled Nazarene wrote:Khrushchev should have left the missiles there.


Then there would be no Castro regime. Possibly no Soviet Union either.

Also no America.
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Novus America
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Postby Novus America » Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:58 am

Asherahan wrote:
Greater La Habana Cuba and Miami Shores wrote:To be honest, I don't understand the way you have worded this post? which was a single state party?

I am saying that a single party state turning into multiparty democracy always end up going bad.


What about the Baltics? Poland? South Korea? Taiwan?
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. Pragmatism is my ideology.

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Greater La Habana Cuba and Miami Shores
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Postby Greater La Habana Cuba and Miami Shores » Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:03 am

Asherahan wrote:
Greater La Habana Cuba and Miami Shores wrote:Now I understand, thank you, lol.

So it seems like you are saying, and please correct me if I am wrong, I mean if I have misinterpreted your post, this post, that a multi political party state where, democrats, liberals, republicans, conservatives, democratic socialists, social democrats, socialist democrats, libertarians, greeners, communists and others, can run for public office and be elected to Parliament and represented in Parliament, like I assume in the capitalist nation you live in well and are posting from, its a bad thing and a worst thing than a one political party state, where only communists or socialist views are allowed to be represented in Parliament, if that is the case, I have to lol.

Probably because I want such a thing for my Country but besides that what is your answer on the only actual problem with this shitty plan you want to impose on Cuba?

You know that Cuba has no infrastructure to create a Multiparty Western Democracy anywhere.

Sounds like a lame excuse, what I mean is, it sounds like just an excuse of Cuba's government leaders that they cant create a multiparty western style democracy because they don't have the infrastructure for it.

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Asherahan
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Postby Asherahan » Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:03 am

Novus America wrote:
Asherahan wrote:I am saying that a single party state turning into multiparty democracy always end up going bad.


What about the Baltics? Poland? South Korea? Taiwan?

South Korea and Taiwan had the Support of the USA and wanted to become Democratic that is why they were such huge successes contrast them to the Baltics and Poland which while they did want to become Democratic had no support from anyone ending with worse living standards and cleptocracies for the short term until people figure their shit out.

Guess how Cuba is gonna turn out where Neither the people nor anyone gonna help them?
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Postby Asherahan » Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:04 am

Greater La Habana Cuba and Miami Shores wrote:
Asherahan wrote:Probably because I want such a thing for my Country but besides that what is your answer on the only actual problem with this shitty plan you want to impose on Cuba?

You know that Cuba has no infrastructure to create a Multiparty Western Democracy anywhere.

Sounds like a lame excuse, what I mean is, it sounds like just an excuse of Cuba's government leaders that they cant create a multiparty western style democracy because they don't have the infrastructure for it.

Are planning to fork the costs?
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Greater La Habana Cuba and Miami Shores
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Postby Greater La Habana Cuba and Miami Shores » Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:05 am

Bears Armed wrote:
Asherahan wrote:I am saying that a single party state turning into multiparty democracy always end up going bad.

West Germany after WW2?

lol, i'm having a lol attack, :rofl:

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Novus America
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Postby Novus America » Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:10 am

Asherahan wrote:
Novus America wrote:
Then there would be no Castro regime. Possibly no Soviet Union either.

Also no America.


Nope.
Mutually Assured Destruction did not exist at the time.
“The Soviets at the time has very limited nuclear forces and delivery systems compared to the US
By the time of the crisis in October 1962, the total amount of nuclear weapons in the stockpiles of each country numbered approximately 26,400 for the United States and 3,300 for the Soviet Union. At the peak of the crisis, the U.S. had some 3,500 nuclear weapons ready to be used on command with a combined yield of approximately 6,300 megatons. The Soviets had considerably less strategic firepower at their disposal (some 300-320 bombs and warheads), lacking submarine-based weapons in a position to threaten the U.S. mainland and having most of their intercontinental delivery systems based on bombers that would have difficulty penetrating North American air defense systems. The U.S. had approximately 4,375 nuclear weapons deployed in Europe, most of which were tactical weapons such as nuclear artillery, with around 450 of them for ballistic missiles, cruise missiles, and aircraft; the Soviets had more than 550 similar weapons in Europe.[131][132]”

Moreover US forces were fully prepared for war but the Soviets
“the Russians were so thoroughly stood down, and we knew it. They didn't make any move. They did not increase their alert; they did not increase any flights, or their air defense posture. They didn't do a thing, they froze in place.”

It would be unilaterally, not mutually assured destruction.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_Missile_Crisis
Last edited by Novus America on Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. Pragmatism is my ideology.

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Novus America
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Novus America » Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:14 am

Asherahan wrote:
Novus America wrote:
What about the Baltics? Poland? South Korea? Taiwan?

South Korea and Taiwan had the Support of the USA and wanted to become Democratic that is why they were such huge successes contrast them to the Baltics and Poland which while they did want to become Democratic had no support from anyone ending with worse living standards and cleptocracies for the short term until people figure their shit out.

Guess how Cuba is gonna turn out where Neither the people nor anyone gonna help them?


The US would help Cuba transition.
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. Pragmatism is my ideology.

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Asherahan
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Asherahan » Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:14 am

Novus America wrote:
Asherahan wrote:Also no America.


Nope.
Mutually Assured Destruction did not exist at the time.
“The Soviets at the time has very limited nuclear forces and delivery systems compared to the US
By the time of the crisis in October 1962, the total amount of nuclear weapons in the stockpiles of each country numbered approximately 26,400 for the United States and 3,300 for the Soviet Union. At the peak of the crisis, the U.S. had some 3,500 nuclear weapons ready to be used on command with a combined yield of approximately 6,300 megatons. The Soviets had considerably less strategic firepower at their disposal (some 300-320 bombs and warheads), lacking submarine-based weapons in a position to threaten the U.S. mainland and having most of their intercontinental delivery systems based on bombers that would have difficulty penetrating North American air defense systems. The U.S. had approximately 4,375 nuclear weapons deployed in Europe, most of which were tactical weapons such as nuclear artillery, with around 450 of them for ballistic missiles, cruise missiles, and aircraft; the Soviets had more than 550 similar weapons in Europe.[131][132]”

Moreover US forces were fully prepared for war but the Soviets
“the Russians were so thoroughly stood down, and we knew it. They didn't make any move. They did not increase their alert; they did not increase any flights, or their air defense posture. They didn't do a thing, they froze in place.”

It would be unilaterally, not mutually assured destruction.

Yeah keep telling yourself that.
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Who Likes: Single Party Democracy | Democratic Centralism | State Capitalism | Blanquism | State Atheism | Sex Positive Feminism & Socialist Feminism
Former Resident of NSG CTALNH here since 2011 - Add like 10000 to my post number.
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