New US Sanctions on Cuba - and Venezuela related discuss

[Greater La Habana Cuba and Miami Shores]

1. No reason to respond to my post twice, that's a bit trollish

2. Believe it or not, when you deprive an entire country of money, food and goods its people do not get richer. The Cuban regime, although dictatorial, is currently reforming and the US should welcome that rather than continuing to isolate a country that poses no real significant threat anymore and starve its people.

Except we have never deprived Cuba of those things. They can and do get some those things from elsewhere.
But I agree Cuba should be able to freely buy non military, non security goods from us.

But we should not buy anything from the Cuban regime.

And I have seen no sign at all the “reform” is genuine.
It appears so far to be all show and no substance.

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Please see my Poll Disclaimer below:
https://strawpoll.com/da8g5agy

To Novus America and to all my fellow nations on NS:
Thank you for this comment and your other Pro Cuban People comments, And I have seen no sign at all the “reform” is genuine. It appears so far to be all show and no substance. It is all show and no substance, Cuban Americans have been telling that to the world for 60 years, to the world of western style democratic nations that don't care, do I have too list them all again? Now do you all know why Cuban Americans like myself feel the way we do?

I have many posts and quotes planed to make, but I don't want to do it all in one day.
I have many posts planned coming up from the EU, Canada and the European nations in support of the Castro-Diaz-Canel regime, keep in mind this thread is also about Venezuela in the OP Introduction Post and on the Poll options.

I still have many fellow nations to quote directly, but I don't want to do it all in one day.

I sent a TG to the Public straw Poll site to help me unlock the Poll so we can all see who has voted for which Pro or Con options, it might take till Monday or so, I will keep you all updated. We are allowed to Post Public straw Polls, thank you to all who have seen it and voted Pro or con on it.

Here is another one I am not sure if it works correctly I added two new questions and two former questions. I am very Proud at the Pro and Con votes and Posts on this thread so far.

Your OP Thread Host

Greater Miami Shores and La Habana Cuba
Greater La Habana Cuba and Miami Shores.
Crazy Cuban Alberto - lol.

[Gormwood]

If you want to see what a Cuba with the government overthrown and the current administration handling the aftermath, see Puerto Rico.

[Greater La Habana Cuba and Miami Shores]

If you want to see what a Cuba with the government overthrown and the current administration handling the aftermath, see Puerto Rico.

l have been to Puerto Rico 3 times, I have Cuban and Puerto Rican friends who live their, I now have Puerto Ricans in my family, lol I am having a lol attack, and a million times better than under Fidel, Raúl and Diaz-Canel, have you not read my posts on current day cuba?

[Yusseria]

You were wrong.


Kind of hard lol boycott something if you can't participate.


You said he was "democratically elected". There's nothing democratic about a fraudulent election.

It seems I was wrong about the 2018 election. That's a 1/2 for me on that end.

You want me to prove there was fraud in the last election too or are you finally willing to admit that maybe the Venezuelan government isn't all that democratic?

[Novus America]

If you want to see what a Cuba with the government overthrown and the current administration handling the aftermath, see Puerto Rico.

Puerto Rico, despite its problems has a much higher HDI and GDP per capita than Cuba.

[Greater La Habana Cuba and Miami Shores]

To all my fellow Nation Staters, current day Cuba, all not necessarily in order:

01 - My guy cousin the one who emigrated legally to Miami and the USA, the right way, told me be careful what you say about our family still in Cuba, because if the Cuban government finds out you are they can make life hell for our family still in Cuba, when I showed him and told him all about NS.

02 - The so called free education and benefits of the revolution, the triumphs of the revolution, my cousin on point number 1, is an architect, he had to work x numbers of years for the state at a lower wage to repay the state for his so called free education, I am sure most of you don't know that is how it is in Cuba today, for all profeesionals.

03 - Add to that the volunteer work brigades in all sectors of the economy, and the work days with no pay throughout the year, I am not making any of this up.

04 - Currenty and throughout the history of the revolution, their are shortages of eggs, chicken, rice, pork, cooking oil, toilet paper and other products, like gaceta printing paper for the news media, which Cubans have used many times as a substitute for toilet paper, because the pages are softer than most other printing papers, I am not making this up, things you and I take for granted.

While the rich privileged governing elite live like rich, communist, sociaists, capitalists, and the foreign tourists hotels have everything they need, including eggs, chicken, rice, pork, cooking oil, other products and toilet paper.

Here is how the socialist system works just like in the Soviet Union and its former Eastern European empire, Cubans make long lines to buy these products, the store clerks let them in 4 or 5 at a time so they can provide them with excellect customer service on products that the store runs out on at any moment, try your luck on a long line tomorrow and the next day and so on.

05 - Most of my family in Cuba don't own a car, or have air conditioners in their homes, they have bikes and their feet or foot, to get around, do you know how hot it gets in Cuba without an air conditioner ? Things you and I take for granted.

06 - The Cuban regime rents Cuban doctors, nurses and other professionals like slaves all over the world, paying them about 20 % of the wages foreign governments pay them in non convertible pesos, that only have value within Cuba, while keeping the hard currency money.

07 - The Committees for the Defense of the Revolution, keep an eye and a list on you, who you are, where you work, who you see, who sees you, and what you do, you to report any anti revolutionary activity to the national police and other security forces and your volunteer work record or not for the revolution, and your loyalty or not for the revolution, not the government, not the 4 or 5 years administrations, for the revolution, the eternal revolution.

08 - The Committees for the defense of the Revolution, make acts of repudiation against any one who dares disagree with the Cuban government on any issues, who dares protest, calling them anti, social, anti democratic, gusano worms, escoria scums, Pro Miami Cuban American Mafia elements, La Gusanera, chanting leave gusano worms, escors scums, leave the Gusanera, while the police look on doing nothing, they used to throw eggs at them, no wonder their is a shortages of eggs in Cuba.

09 - Cubans in Cuba get paid with worthless Cup Pesos, and have to buy most of their products with Cuc Convertible Pesos in so called hard currency dollar stores, provided by Cuban Americans family remittances, I am not making this up.

10 - According to the Cuban national telephone company that is also in charge of the internet, at least 30 % of the cell phones Cubans are now allowed to own, are paid for directly from Miami Cuban Americans, Cuban Americans buy and re charge their cell phones for them, most of the other 70 % are covered by Cuban American family remittances.

11 - Their currently thousands of potential illegal Cuban refugees all over Central America and South America, most in Mexico and Central America, who emigrate through third nation, their goal is the USA legally or illegally both, currently Cubans are taking to the sea across shark infested waters once again, the US coast guard and other nations have recently rescued Cuban Balsero Rafters again.

12 - Mexico who complains about US deportations of illegal Mexicans, deports illegal Cubans to Cuba under an immigration agreement with Cuba, at the same time it allows x numbers of Cubans legal passage through Mexico to the USA, Mexican Border, whenever they want too, just like the US immigration system works. at least 192 Cubans were recently deported to Cuba from Mexico a few weeks ago, I posted about with links on this thread.

13 - At least 80 % of the self employed cuentapropistas of the timibiriche rinky-dink private business belong to a Cuban government workers union, according to the Cuban government, another form of control over the self employed cuentapropistas, like taxes, laws and regulations.

My browser is acting up again, it needs to rest before it freezes again, this is good for now, I have many posts to quote on this awesome thread, and many links of Canadian and European governments support for the Cuban regime of Fidel, Raúl and Diaz Canel, keep in mind this thread is also about Venezuela in the OP introduction Post and on the Poll options.

You guys just don't know the real Cuba, for obvious reasons, you are not Cubans.

Your OP Thread Host as I love to call myself and all my fellow OPS.

Greater Miami Shores and La Habana Cuba.
Greater La Habana Cuba and Miami Shores.
Crazy Cuban Alberto.

[Vetalia]

While I think sanctions on Cuba on an objective basis are appropriate based on the government's history of human rights abuses and various other issues, it rings rather hypocritical that we would slam them with sanctions while completely ignoring abuses in our "ally" Saudi Arabia, whose human rights record is significantly worse than theirs. If we had the stones to be as firm with them as we are with Cuba, it might carry some weight and induce others to cooperate.

However, the world is also changing; the US isn't the hyperpower it was for a brief period in the 1990s and is arguably no longer a superpower due to the rise of other great powers in Asia, so it's increasingly easy for the rest of the world to simply ignore our sanctions and trade with Cuba regardless of what we decree, gaining influence in the process. That seems like a way to shoot ourselves in the foot and leave us vulnerable in our own backyard more than anything.

So, overall I would prefer to see the sanctions on Cuba lifted. Perhaps through the combination of peace, significant foreign investment, economic growth and cultural interaction with freer countries, they will be more likely to liberalize and reform. This has happened in China already...their human rights record is still pretty bad, but it's nothing compared to the Maoist era when they were at a North Korean level of oppression.

[Gormwood]

While I think sanctions on Cuba on an objective basis are appropriate based on the government's history of human rights abuses and various other issues, it rings rather hypocritical that we would slam them with sanctions while completely ignoring abuses in our "ally" Saudi Arabia, whose human rights record is significantly worse than theirs. If we had the stones to be as firm with them as we are with Cuba, it might carry some weight and induce others to cooperate.

However, the world is also changing; the US isn't the hyperpower it was for a brief period in the 1990s and is arguably no longer a superpower due to the rise of other great powers in Asia, so it's increasingly easy for the rest of the world to simply ignore our sanctions and trade with Cuba regardless of what we decree, gaining influence in the process. That seems like a way to shoot ourselves in the foot and leave us vulnerable in our own backyard more than anything.

So, overall I would prefer to see the sanctions on Cuba lifted. Perhaps through the combination of peace, significant foreign investment, economic growth and cultural interaction with freer countries, they will be more likely to liberalize and reform. This has happened in China already...their human rights record is still pretty bad, but it's nothing compared to the Maoist era when they were at a North Korean level of oppression.

The primary reason the sanctions were imposed on Cuba was that Obama was working on normalizing relations with them and Trump pathogically cannot stand any Obama accomplishment.

[Greater La Habana Cuba and Miami Shores]

While I think sanctions on Cuba on an objective basis are appropriate based on the government's history of human rights abuses and various other issues, it rings rather hypocritical that we would slam them with sanctions while completely ignoring abuses in our "ally" Saudi Arabia, whose human rights record is significantly worse than theirs. If we had the stones to be as firm with them as we are with Cuba, it might carry some weight and induce others to cooperate.

However, the world is also changing; the US isn't the hyperpower it was for a brief period in the 1990s and is arguably no longer a superpower due to the rise of other great powers in Asia, so it's increasingly easy for the rest of the world to simply ignore our sanctions and trade with Cuba regardless of what we decree, gaining influence in the process. That seems like a way to shoot ourselves in the foot and leave us vulnerable in our own backyard more than anything.

So, overall I would prefer to see the sanctions on Cuba lifted. Perhaps through the combination of peace, significant foreign investment, economic growth and cultural interaction with freer countries, they will be more likely to liberalize and reform. This has happened in China already...their human rights record is still pretty bad, but it's nothing compared to the Maoist era when they were at a North Korean level of oppression.

What will happen with the suggestions above of Vetalia, is what is happening right now, the Cuban government will control all exports and imports into Cuba and out of Cuba, so they can keep control and compliance loyalty to the eternal revolution as they themselves say.

If the Cuban regime wanted too, they can flood Cuba with Canadian and European businesses investing in Cuba, opening stores, restaurants, wholesale and retail distribution centers, and businesses of all kinds, but they don't because it means loosing economic control over the Cuban people, they are not the Chinese and Vietnamese governing mafia elite, they are the Cuban hardline intransigent mafia elite.

The privileged governing elite have just declared once again, the communist party the only political party allowed and the socialist revolution as permanent and irreversible in the new so called democratic constitution, and Poll option 9 has 5 votes to Poll option 10 with 10 votes, lol.

I know the socialists, leftists and communists of NS are voting to make Poll option 10 higher, and that is ok they can do that legally. I have asked that question before and have been shocked at how much support option 9 has gotten in the past. Thank you all for all the Pro and Con Posts and votes so far, 92 total votes. I have many nations to quote and many informative links to post, but I don't want to post them all in one day. Your OP Thread Host. GMS

[Vetalia]

What will happen with the suggestions above of Vetalia, is what is happening right now, the Cuban government will control all exports and imports into Cuba and out of Cuba, so they can keep control and compliance loyalty to the eternal revolution as they themselves say.

If the Cuban regime wanted too, they can flood Cuba with Canadian and European businesses investing in Cuba, opening stores, restaurants, wholesale and retail distribution centers, and businesses of all kinds, but they don't because it means loosing economic control over the Cuban people, they are not the Chinese and Vietnamese governing mafia elite, they are the Cuban hardline intransigent mafia elite.

The privileged governing elite have just declared once again, the communist party the only political party allowed and the socialist revolution as permanent and irreversible in the new so called democratic constitution, and Poll option 9 has 5 votes to Poll option 10 with 10 votes, lol.

I know the socialists, leftists and communists of NS are voting to make Poll option 10 higher, and that is ok they can do that legally. I have asked that question before and have been shocked at how much support option 9 has gotten in the past. Thank you all for all the Pro and Con Posts and votes so far, 92 total votes. I have many nations to quote and many informative links to post, but I don't want to post them all in one day. Your OP Thread Host. GMS

The question then is, what do we do? Sanctions as they are aren't going to change things and will ultimately stop working entirely soon enough. Really, the only realistic option I see in this case if we want to use sanctions to achieve regime change is the US applying them consistently and unequivocally across all nations with human rights issues...i.e. China, Saudi Arabia, Iran, etc. If we truly stood on those principles worldwide it might make others buy in.

[Greater La Habana Cuba and Miami Shores]

While I think sanctions on Cuba on an objective basis are appropriate based on the government's history of human rights abuses and various other issues, it rings rather hypocritical that we would slam them with sanctions while completely ignoring abuses in our "ally" Saudi Arabia, whose human rights record is significantly worse than theirs. If we had the stones to be as firm with them as we are with Cuba, it might carry some weight and induce others to cooperate.

However, the world is also changing; the US isn't the hyperpower it was for a brief period in the 1990s and is arguably no longer a superpower due to the rise of other great powers in Asia, so it's increasingly easy for the rest of the world to simply ignore our sanctions and trade with Cuba regardless of what we decree, gaining influence in the process. That seems like a way to shoot ourselves in the foot and leave us vulnerable in our own backyard more than anything.

So, overall I would prefer to see the sanctions on Cuba lifted. Perhaps through the combination of peace, significant foreign investment, economic growth and cultural interaction with freer countries, they will be more likely to liberalize and reform. This has happened in China already...their human rights record is still pretty bad, but it's nothing compared to the Maoist era when they were at a North Korean level of oppression.

The primary reason the sanctions were imposed on Cuba was that Obama was working on normalizing relations with them and Trump pathogically cannot stand any Obama accomplishment.

lol, what accomplishments, modern day Cuba as I have described on all my posts, which I have not made up on any of my posts, or do you do not believe me on how modern day Cuba really is?

[Badb Catha]

The Western Allies have an obligation to stamp out the last remnants of the revolutionary wave of Socialism and Communism they allowed to persist in the aftermath of the Second World War. The fact they have faltered in this since the collapse of the Soviet Union is disappointing to say the lest. They must accept responsibility for allowing these putrid ideologies to spread by ending their dominance wherever they are found, once and for all.

[Greater La Habana Cuba and Miami Shores]

What will happen with the suggestions above of Vetalia, is what is happening right now, the Cuban government will control all exports and imports into Cuba and out of Cuba, so they can keep control and compliance loyalty to the eternal revolution as they themselves say.

If the Cuban regime wanted too, they can flood Cuba with Canadian and European businesses investing in Cuba, opening stores, restaurants, wholesale and retail distribution centers, and businesses of all kinds, but they don't because it means loosing economic control over the Cuban people, they are not the Chinese and Vietnamese governing mafia elite, they are the Cuban hardline intransigent mafia elite.

The privileged governing elite have just declared once again, the communist party the only political party allowed and the socialist revolution as permanent and irreversible in the new so called democratic constitution, and Poll option 9 has 5 votes to Poll option 10 with 10 votes, lol.

I know the socialists, leftists and communists of NS are voting to make Poll option 10 higher, and that is ok they can do that legally. I have asked that question before and have been shocked at how much support option 9 has gotten in the past. Thank you all for all the Pro and Con Posts and votes so far, 92 total votes. I have many nations to quote and many informative links to post, but I don't want to post them all in one day. Your OP Thread Host. GMS

The question then is, what do we do? Sanctions as they are aren't going to change things and will ultimately stop working entirely soon enough. Really, the only realistic option I see in this case if we want to use sanctions to achieve regime change is the US applying them consistently and unequivocally across all nations with human rights issues...i.e. China, Saudi Arabia, Iran, etc. If we truly stood on those principles worldwide it might make others buy in.

When I post to anyone I post to all my fellow nations on NS.
Trade tourist, cultural and economic, diplomatic relations do not work with any undemocratic regime like Cuba and Venezuela for obvious reasons, it is called support and appeasement, it strengthens those regimes not weaken it.

Hey I have an awesome idea lets flood Venezuela with trade, tourists and economic aid and Maduro will fall from power, just like Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Japan, the Hispanic Nations, Brazil, Hungary, and most nations of the world are doing with Cuba, yeah right lol.

[Greater La Habana Cuba and Miami Shores]

If the western democratic nations want to help the Cuban people and the Venezuelan people like my family still in cuba, they need to get rid of the Cuban regime and Maduro, not trade, tourists, economic and diplomatic relations with them.

Cuba is the easy one because it is an island nation, a US naval blockade nothing goes in, nothing goes out until the Cuban government falls from within and without, on Venezuela all options have to be on the table. Especially if their is another Cuban Balsero Rafter crisis, I know it will be considered an act of war by President Trump and a naval blockade of Cuba will happen, and it will probably be supported by most Americans under the circumstances of another Balsero Rafter crisis.

[Tokora]

How does replacing a dictator with an even worse dictator help in any possible way?

>even worse

Press X to doubt.

Because using Pinochet as the example Maduro's replacement would be a totalitarian capitalist that kidnaps children, literally feeds dissidents to dogs, kidnaps/murders foreigners in the country, and assassinating dissidents abroad. Say what you will about Venezuela, but Chile was a U.S.-sponsored North Korea.

[Vetalia]

When I post to anyone I post to all my fellow nations on NS.
Trade tourist, cultural and economic, diplomatic relations do not work with any undemocratic regime like Cuba and Venezuela for obvious reasons, it is called support and appeasement, it strengthens those regimes not weaken it.

Hey I have an awesome idea lets flood Venezuela with trade, tourists and economic aid and Maduro will fall from power, just like Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Japan, the Hispanic Nations, Brazil, Hungary, and most nations of the world are doing with Cuba, yeah right lol.

I agree, the problem is precisely that. What do we do if sanctions are meaningless?

[Greater La Habana Cuba and Miami Shores]

When I post to anyone I post to all my fellow nations on NS.
Trade tourist, cultural and economic, diplomatic relations do not work with any undemocratic regime like Cuba and Venezuela for obvious reasons, it is called support and appeasement, it strengthens those regimes not weaken it.

Hey I have an awesome idea lets flood Venezuela with trade, tourists and economic aid and Maduro will fall from power, just like Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Japan, the Hispanic Nations, Brazil, Hungary, and most nations of the world are doing with Cuba, yeah right lol.

I agree, the problem is precisely that. What do we do if sanctions are meaningless?

Great Post Vetalia, for those of us who consider the Cuban government the real hardline intransigents , we are damned if we do and damned if we don't.

What is needed is an international embargo on Cuba and Venezuela by the western democratic style multi political party nations like on South Africa under apartheid, like the Cuban Americans have been begging the world to do for 60 years.

Agree or not with Cuban Americans, do you now understand how Cuban Americans feel, not even the Hispanic nations have supported us against the Castro Diaz-Balart regime?

Like Novus America posted the Cuban government's regime of a new democratic constitution is all for show, they will not democratize western style unless they have no choice, as long as they have the tourist, trade and economic support of all the nations in the world they don't have to change anything, I would say and do the same thing they say and do, and most of us would if we were them and had the economic and political support of most nations of the world as the Cuban regime has.

As long as the Committees for the Defense of the Revolution exist in Cuba their will not be any democratic wetern style multi political party state in Cuba. Have I made any sense to anyone on this thread with my anti Cuban government regime posts or am I wasting my time?

I know I respond strongly to anyone who quotes me, but I always recognize their democratic right to their views and their democratic right to post them.

[Novus America]

What will happen with the suggestions above of Vetalia, is what is happening right now, the Cuban government will control all exports and imports into Cuba and out of Cuba, so they can keep control and compliance loyalty to the eternal revolution as they themselves say.

If the Cuban regime wanted too, they can flood Cuba with Canadian and European businesses investing in Cuba, opening stores, restaurants, wholesale and retail distribution centers, and businesses of all kinds, but they don't because it means loosing economic control over the Cuban people, they are not the Chinese and Vietnamese governing mafia elite, they are the Cuban hardline intransigent mafia elite.

The privileged governing elite have just declared once again, the communist party the only political party allowed and the socialist revolution as permanent and irreversible in the new so called democratic constitution, and Poll option 9 has 5 votes to Poll option 10 with 10 votes, lol.

I know the socialists, leftists and communists of NS are voting to make Poll option 10 higher, and that is ok they can do that legally. I have asked that question before and have been shocked at how much support option 9 has gotten in the past. Thank you all for all the Pro and Con Posts and votes so far, 92 total votes. I have many nations to quote and many informative links to post, but I don't want to post them all in one day. Your OP Thread Host. GMS

The question then is, what do we do? Sanctions as they are aren't going to change things and will ultimately stop working entirely soon enough. Really, the only realistic option I see in this case if we want to use sanctions to achieve regime change is the US applying them consistently and unequivocally across all nations with human rights issues...i.e. China, Saudi Arabia, Iran, etc. If we truly stood on those principles worldwide it might make others buy in.

Sure. We should do it. Sanction the hell out of Saudi Arabia and China too.

[Greater La Habana Cuba and Miami Shores]

This post is withdrawn.

[Pope Joan]

let people send money back home to their families, whether Cuban or Mexican or Philippine.
Be humane.

[Greater La Habana Cuba and Miami Shores]

let people send money back home to their families, whether Cuban or Mexican or Philippine.
Be humane.

lol, the problem is trade, tourists, diplomatic and economic relations help the Cuban dictatorship eternal revolution regime stay in power, the Cuban regime is the one at fault for the misery conditions of Cuba, not the one nation USA embargo blockade, the Cuban government trades with almost all nations of the world, including limited trade and tourists from the USA, and Cuban Ameican family remittances and care packages, and their are still shortages of.

Eggs, chicken, pork, cooking oil, bread, toilet paper, medicines and other products, while privileged governing elite live like rich communist, socialist, capitalists and the foreign tourist hotels, have Eggs, chicken, pork, cooking oil, bread, toilet paper, medicines and other products, lol.

[Evil Dictators Happyland]

The question then is, what do we do? Sanctions as they are aren't going to change things and will ultimately stop working entirely soon enough. Really, the only realistic option I see in this case if we want to use sanctions to achieve regime change is the US applying them consistently and unequivocally across all nations with human rights issues...i.e. China, Saudi Arabia, Iran, etc. If we truly stood on those principles worldwide it might make others buy in.

Sure. We should do it. Sanction the hell out of Saudi Arabia and China too.

I'm all for this even though I know it's not going to happen. Would be nice if America actually stood up for once and cared more about human rights than money.

[Novus America]

Sure. We should do it. Sanction the hell out of Saudi Arabia and China too.

I'm all for this even though I know it's not going to happen. Would be nice if America actually stood up for once and cared more about human rights than money.

Ironically China and Saudi Arabia actually drain money from our economy. They really only make money for millionaires and multinationals but I guess that answers why it will not happen.

[Zizou]

I'm all for this even though I know it's not going to happen. Would be nice if America actually stood up for once and cared more about human rights than money.

Ironically China and Saudi Arabia actually drain money from our economy. They really only make money for millionaires and multinationals but I guess that answers why it will not happen.

Very sad indeed. The one good think I thought would come out of Trump would that he would truly "go tough on terror" and sanction Saudi, but it looks like that's not going to happen.

[US-SSR]

For those of you waiting with bated breath to learn which horrid, socialistic organ of the "one political party state eternal revolution for life" will wind up being the first to be sued under the newly-activated, pointless, toothless and fraudulent "sanctions regime......"

AAAAAAAAAAnd the winner is.....

CARNIVAL CRUISE LINES out of........wait for it.......MIAMI, FLORIDA!!!!!!

.....for using dock facilities allegedly siezed from some Cuban Americans.

So much winning!