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by Unstoppable Empire of Doom » Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:29 pm
by Ifreann » Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:34 pm
Sagarmatha wrote:Rezmaeristan wrote:
So let's picture this. Densely populated urban areas start emptying out because city-dwellers want to live in rural areas. But there's so many of them that everyone having 20 acres and living far apart in the countryside becomes impossible. So eventually the rural area becomes a suburb. And then everyone starves because there's no farmland, which means no food.
Fact: with arable land you can feed a family of four with two acres. Meat, eggs, dairy, fruits and vegetables. Two acres to eat better than most people in their tenements, stuffing themselves with preservatives and shelf stabilizers. Yummy yummy microwave meals.
You literally need one acre and decent soil to feed your family. No one is asking for 20 acres for every individual. Stop being dramatic because you got embarrassed. Literally every single family could have that, but even if it were a 60:40 or 80:20 split there is even more arable land. But thats not good for the consumerist machine and GDP so >>>:(
by San Lumen » Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:35 pm
Sagarmatha wrote:Rezmaeristan wrote:
So let's picture this. Densely populated urban areas start emptying out because city-dwellers want to live in rural areas. But there's so many of them that everyone having 20 acres and living far apart in the countryside becomes impossible. So eventually the rural area becomes a suburb. And then everyone starves because there's no farmland, which means no food.
Fact: with arable land you can feed a family of four with two acres. Meat, eggs, dairy, fruits and vegetables. Two acres to eat better than most people in their tenements, stuffing themselves with preservatives and shelf stabilizers. Yummy yummy microwave meals.
You literally need one acre and decent soil to feed your family. No one is asking for 20 acres for every individual. Stop being dramatic because you got embarrassed. Literally every single family could have that, but even if it were a 60:40 or 80:20 split there is even more arable land. But thats not good for the consumerist machine and GDP so >>>:(
by Rezmaeristan » Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:36 pm
Sagarmatha wrote:The literal Roman Empire had an age expectancy similar to ours adjusted for infant mortality and war. Holy **** you guys.
by Outer Sparta » Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:37 pm
Sagarmatha wrote:The literal Roman Empire had an age expectancy similar to ours adjusted for infant mortality and war. Holy **** you guys.
by Novus America » Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:54 pm
by Kowani » Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:58 pm
Sagarmatha wrote:The literal Roman Empire had an age expectancy similar to ours adjusted for infant mortality and war. Holy **** you guys.
by Orostan » Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:30 pm
Outer Sparta wrote:Orostan wrote:Rezmaeristan is right though. Anything that is economically even slightly viable and is spread out enough to make it 'not a city' is going to end up looking like a suburb on sterioids.
Any kind of urbanization is inevitable. I mean, look at the rise of the Sumerians and their cities thousands of years ago.
Sagarmatha wrote:The literal Roman Empire had an age expectancy similar to ours adjusted for infant mortality and war. Holy **** you guys.
“It is difficult for me to imagine what “personal liberty” is enjoyed by an unemployed hungry person. True freedom can only be where there is no exploitation and oppression of one person by another; where there is not unemployment, and where a person is not living in fear of losing his job, his home and his bread. Only in such a society personal and any other freedom can exist for real and not on paper.” -J. V. STALIN
Ernest Hemingway wrote:Anyone who loves freedom owes such a debt to the Red Army that it can never be repaid.
Napoleon Bonaparte wrote:“To understand the man you have to know what was happening in the world when he was twenty.”
Cicero wrote:"In times of war, the laws fall silent"
by Novus America » Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:46 pm
by Prydania » Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:52 pm
Lord Dominator wrote:How about we just let people live where they want? I don't know if I'd personally like living in a city, but that doesn't mean I want everyone else to come live out here with me.
by Sagarmatha » Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:56 pm
Novus America wrote:Kowani wrote:Citation needed.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demogra ... man_Empire
Seems that even adjusted for the high infant mortality (which is a bad thing) the life expectancy was late 50s. Which is still very poor by modern standards.
Meanwhile industrialization did improve life expectancy,
https://ourworldindata.org/life-expectancy
by Novus America » Sun Apr 14, 2019 10:02 pm
Sagarmatha wrote:Look at the abject lunacy that urbanites are taken over by. Against corporate welfare, wage slavery, and the supercapitalist machine? Must be a right-wing but job :^)
What level of Neoliberal corporate boot licking are you on, mate.Novus America wrote:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demogra ... man_Empire
Seems that even adjusted for the high infant mortality (which is a bad thing) the life expectancy was late 50s. Which is still very poor by modern standards.
Meanwhile industrialization did improve life expectancy,
https://ourworldindata.org/life-expectancy
Late-50s to early-60s, yes, which is when you reach a what is known in modern medical science as a "death platuea" but that's neither here nor there, and rural folk can be expected to live comparable amounts of time to their urban counterparts.
Also, again, overpopulation is a conspiracy theory at best.
by Prydania » Sun Apr 14, 2019 10:06 pm
Sagarmatha wrote:Look at the abject lunacy that urbanites are taken over by. Against corporate welfare, wage slavery, and the supercapitalist machine? Must be a right-wing but job :^)
What level of Neoliberal corporate boot licking are you on, mate.
by Sagarmatha » Sun Apr 14, 2019 10:07 pm
by Orostan » Sun Apr 14, 2019 10:07 pm
Sagarmatha wrote:Look at the abject lunacy that urbanites are taken over by. Against corporate welfare, wage slavery, and the supercapitalist machine? Must be a right-wing but job :^)
What level of Neoliberal corporate boot licking are you on, mate.Novus America wrote:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demogra ... man_Empire
Seems that even adjusted for the high infant mortality (which is a bad thing) the life expectancy was late 50s. Which is still very poor by modern standards.
Meanwhile industrialization did improve life expectancy,
https://ourworldindata.org/life-expectancy
Late-50s to early-60s, yes, which is when you reach a what is known in modern medical science as a "death platuea" but that's neither here nor there, and rural folk can be expected to live comparable amounts of time to their urban counterparts.
Also, again, overpopulation is a conspiracy theory at best.
“It is difficult for me to imagine what “personal liberty” is enjoyed by an unemployed hungry person. True freedom can only be where there is no exploitation and oppression of one person by another; where there is not unemployment, and where a person is not living in fear of losing his job, his home and his bread. Only in such a society personal and any other freedom can exist for real and not on paper.” -J. V. STALIN
Ernest Hemingway wrote:Anyone who loves freedom owes such a debt to the Red Army that it can never be repaid.
Napoleon Bonaparte wrote:“To understand the man you have to know what was happening in the world when he was twenty.”
Cicero wrote:"In times of war, the laws fall silent"
by Orostan » Sun Apr 14, 2019 10:09 pm
Sagarmatha wrote:No one here is talking about forcing people into the wilderness or onto farms at gun point. I am however against the very anti-rural policies that exist. Again, the vey economic system of America makes it very difficult to just live without having to depend on corporations and urban environments. Corporate welfare, artificially inflated currency, intentional globalization. Neoliberals have been working for decades and decades to solidify the power of corporations and corporate interest and it had worked.
I want policies that make it easier to just pick up and go provide for myself and my family by my own hand, and also a cultural shift away from the socially ingrained prejudices people have against rural people.
“It is difficult for me to imagine what “personal liberty” is enjoyed by an unemployed hungry person. True freedom can only be where there is no exploitation and oppression of one person by another; where there is not unemployment, and where a person is not living in fear of losing his job, his home and his bread. Only in such a society personal and any other freedom can exist for real and not on paper.” -J. V. STALIN
Ernest Hemingway wrote:Anyone who loves freedom owes such a debt to the Red Army that it can never be repaid.
Napoleon Bonaparte wrote:“To understand the man you have to know what was happening in the world when he was twenty.”
Cicero wrote:"In times of war, the laws fall silent"
by San Lumen » Sun Apr 14, 2019 10:10 pm
Sagarmatha wrote:No one here is talking about forcing people into the wilderness or onto farms at gun point. I am however against the very anti-rural policies that exist. Again, the vey economic system of America makes it very difficult to just live without having to depend on corporations and urban environments. Corporate welfare, artificially inflated currency, intentional globalization. Neoliberals have been working for decades and decades to solidify the power of corporations and corporate interest and it had worked.
I want policies that make it easier to just pick up and go provide for myself and my family by my own hand, and also a cultural shift away from the socially ingrained prejudices people have against rural people.
by Sagarmatha » Sun Apr 14, 2019 10:11 pm
Orostan wrote:Sagarmatha wrote:Look at the abject lunacy that urbanites are taken over by. Against corporate welfare, wage slavery, and the supercapitalist machine? Must be a right-wing but job :^)
What level of Neoliberal corporate boot licking are you on, mate.
Late-50s to early-60s, yes, which is when you reach a what is known in modern medical science as a "death platuea" but that's neither here nor there, and rural folk can be expected to live comparable amounts of time to their urban counterparts.
Also, again, overpopulation is a conspiracy theory at best.
You are, at most, a particularly left wing reactionary. A completely de-urbanized and de-industrialized world, if it existed (it can't), would undeniably shorten life expectancy enormously, increase infant mortality by an incredible amount, and make quality of life nonexistent. Rural people can live as long as people who live in urban areas only because of the medicine and medical skill produced in urban areas and by industrial society.
by San Lumen » Sun Apr 14, 2019 10:13 pm
Sagarmatha wrote:AN you still need to go back and address my earlier posts before I'll deal with you.Orostan wrote:You are, at most, a particularly left wing reactionary. A completely de-urbanized and de-industrialized world, if it existed (it can't), would undeniably shorten life expectancy enormously, increase infant mortality by an incredible amount, and make quality of life nonexistent. Rural people can live as long as people who live in urban areas only because of the medicine and medical skill produced in urban areas and by industrial society.
I wasn't aware that lowering corporate welfarism and helping out rural folk meant we had to collectively mass murder doctors and scientists and memory-hole all our knowledge.
This is the prejudice I'm talking about. The equation of rural living with ignorance and backwardness.
by Orostan » Sun Apr 14, 2019 10:14 pm
Sagarmatha wrote:Orostan wrote:You are, at most, a particularly left wing reactionary. A completely de-urbanized and de-industrialized world, if it existed (it can't), would undeniably shorten life expectancy enormously, increase infant mortality by an incredible amount, and make quality of life nonexistent. Rural people can live as long as people who live in urban areas only because of the medicine and medical skill produced in urban areas and by industrial society.
I wasn't aware that lowering corporate welfarism and helping out rural folk meant we had to collectively mass murder doctors and scientists and memory-hole all our knowledge.
This is the prejudice I'm talking about. The equation of rural living with ignorance and backwardness.
“It is difficult for me to imagine what “personal liberty” is enjoyed by an unemployed hungry person. True freedom can only be where there is no exploitation and oppression of one person by another; where there is not unemployment, and where a person is not living in fear of losing his job, his home and his bread. Only in such a society personal and any other freedom can exist for real and not on paper.” -J. V. STALIN
Ernest Hemingway wrote:Anyone who loves freedom owes such a debt to the Red Army that it can never be repaid.
Napoleon Bonaparte wrote:“To understand the man you have to know what was happening in the world when he was twenty.”
Cicero wrote:"In times of war, the laws fall silent"
by Prydania » Sun Apr 14, 2019 10:15 pm
Sagarmatha wrote:No one here is talking about forcing people into the wilderness or onto farms at gun point. I am however against the very anti-rural policies that exist. Again, the vey economic system of America makes it very difficult to just live without having to depend on corporations and urban environments. Corporate welfare, artificially inflated currency, intentional globalization. Neoliberals have been working for decades and decades to solidify the power of corporations and corporate interest and it had worked.
I want policies that make it easier to just pick up and go provide for myself and my family by my own hand, and also a cultural shift away from the socially ingrained prejudices people have against rural people.
by Internationalist Bastard » Sun Apr 14, 2019 10:18 pm
by Risottia » Sun Apr 14, 2019 10:19 pm
Duhon wrote:Esternial wrote:Belgium has lots of rural communities.
1 out of 8 homes in Flanders isn't connect to a sewage system.
Spreading people out would take a hefty infrastructure investment, and I doubt people are willing foot part of the bill for that - especially in the United States.
Dear Lord --- where do the Flemings shit?
by Sagarmatha » Sun Apr 14, 2019 10:19 pm
Orostan wrote:Sagarmatha wrote:
I wasn't aware that lowering corporate welfarism and helping out rural folk meant we had to collectively mass murder doctors and scientists and memory-hole all our knowledge.
This is the prejudice I'm talking about. The equation of rural living with ignorance and backwardness.
I said that with complete de-urbanization and de-industrialization you'd destroy quality of life by any measurement. Even if everyone just voluntarily chooses to destroy industrial society like that, how would a surgeon conduct surgery without tools or proper equipment? How would an astronomer do anything without a telescope? Knowledge like this is only useful if you can apply it to the real world.
by Prydania » Sun Apr 14, 2019 10:21 pm
Sagarmatha wrote:This is the prejudice I'm talking about. The equation of rural living with ignorance and backwardness.
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