Immigration and the inevitability of Communism

[Soviet-American Combine]

I highly doubt that it would have remotely been comparable. It would be a very rudimentary system full of issues. The technology was not there.

That is like saying if somebody invented a video game console in the 40s instead of the 70s it would automatically be comparable to the newest generation of consoles.

Probably not, but the Soviet Union was considerably more able to commit resources to whatever it set it mind to. The United States played catch up in the space race - and again, inspite of the Soviet Union starting from a lower point in development and recovering from WW2. The United States used the Soviet space station.

[Hurdergaryp]

Better dead than red.

That would take care of any dissidents, yes. Those remaining shall create the utopian classless society where all needs are met.

[Bassoe]

So your "logic" and I use the term in the loosest possible sense is:

1. Due to globalist capitalism turning into a race to the bottom in terms of worker's rights and salaries by making collective bargaining/unionization impossible if business owners can simply outsource to and/or bring in foreign strikebreakers...

2. ...we should apparently invite in all of the potential foreign strikebreakers and have 100% taxation to pay for them.

This isn't the stupidest idea I've heard on NSG, but definitely up there.

[Bezkoshtovnya]

I highly doubt that it would have remotely been comparable. It would be a very rudimentary system full of issues. The technology was not there.

That is like saying if somebody invented a video game console in the 40s instead of the 70s it would automatically be comparable to the newest generation of consoles.

Probably not, but the Soviet Union was considerably more able to commit resources to whatever it set it mind to. The United States played catch up in the space race - and again, inspite of the Soviet Union starting from a lower point in development and recovering from WW2. The United States used the Soviet space station.

You seem to be picking and choosing to skew it to your view. The Soviets enjoyed success on the space race, but woefully lagged behind economically and was unable to provide basic consumer goods to its population all the way up to the collapse.

Also the statement that it could do anything it wanted to seems like a complete contradiction to your argument that the bureaucracy ruined everything and prevented it from doing exactly that. Hell your own example of the not-internet alone proves that statement incorrect

I would also like to edit to say that it enjoyed initial success. By the late 70s and early 80s it was behind. Plus its space program was notoriously inefficient and negligent.

[Soviet-American Combine]

The current anti-immigration policies are not good for the economy, we have food rotting in the fields and skilled labour going to Canada.

[Telconi]

Better dead than red.

That would take care of any dissidents, yes. Those remaining shall create the utopian classless society where all needs are met.

Until they give birth to more reasonable people dissidents

[Telconi]

The current anti-immigration policies are not good for the economy, we have food rotting in the fields and skilled labour going to Canada.

(X)

[Soviet-American Combine]

You seem to be picking and choosing to skew it to your view. The Soviets enjoyed success on the space race, but woefully lagged behind economically and was unable to provide basic consumer goods to its population all the way up to the collapse.

They had to devote around 30% of their economy to the military in addition to developing their economy itself - which itself started from a lower devastated level. They were superior in both cases.

Also the statement that it could do anything it wanted to seems like a complete contradiction to your argument that the bureaucracy ruined everything and prevented it from doing exactly that. Hell your own example of the not-internet alone proves that statement incorrect.

Hence the need for an alternative to bureaucracy. But the command economy itself was good at some things - even superior. Not to say we couldn’t try and come up with new methods.

[Bezkoshtovnya]

You seem to be picking and choosing to skew it to your view. The Soviets enjoyed success on the space race, but woefully lagged behind economically and was unable to provide basic consumer goods to its population all the way up to the collapse.

They had to devote around 30% of their economy to the military in addition to developing their economy itself - which itself started from a lower devastated level. They were superior in both cases.

Also the statement that it could do anything it wanted to seems like a complete contradiction to your argument that the bureaucracy ruined everything and prevented it from doing exactly that. Hell your own example of the not-internet alone proves that statement incorrect.

Hence the need for an alternative to bureaucracy. But the command economy itself was good at some things - even superior. Not to say we couldn’t try and come up with new methods.

No they were not. They also did not "have to" spend a third of their budget on the military. The US economy was far stronger and more stable, and the military was generally far more advanced, but smaller. Having an absurd amount of tanks and other materiel in shocking excess is not somehow a mark of success. Especially since, once again, that failed to adequately provide consumer goods to the population and thus provide a decent standard of living, especially when compared to the West.

[Soviet-American Combine]

No they were not. They also did not "have to" spend a third of their budget on the military.

Ok, maybe they didn’t have to if they weren’t a bureaucratic caste more interested in possible military projection than socialism.

[Risottia]

I'm not a gommunist because I don't think industrial society is viable, and I also think that many of the communist solutions to the problems of industrial society are basically just doubling down on those problems.

The last 300 years would hint that a society with mass production through industries is much more viable than any other we tried before.

[Kowani]

I'm not a gommunist because I don't think industrial society is viable, and I also think that many of the communist solutions to the problems of industrial society are basically just doubling down on those problems.

The last 300 years would hint that a society with mass production through industries is much more viable than any other we tried before.

I don’t know about you, but I like living beyond 35.

[Petrolheadia]

No they were not. They also did not "have to" spend a third of their budget on the military.

Ok, maybe they didn’t have to if they weren’t a bureaucratic caste more interested in possible military projection than socialism.

Early 70s Poland tried the "consumer socialism" approach.

The country was basically stuck in crisis from 1976 to 1991.

[Soviet-American Combine]

Early 70s Poland tried the "consumer socialism" approach.

The country was basically stuck in crisis from 1976 to 1991.

It was characterized by the struggle for democracy. Socialism should be democratic.

[First American Empire]

The current anti-immigration policies are not good for the economy, we have food rotting in the fields and skilled labour going to Canada.

This is a huge understatement, to be honest. The economically ideal amount of immigration is way higher than any of our politicians are willing to allow. Immigration actually creates a net positive amount of jobs. We could have so much more growth if we simply repealed most of our immigration restrictions, granted all immigrants citizenship so they could be fully integrated into our economy, and educated people about the economic benefits of immigration to prevent nationalists from wrecking everything again.

[Greater Loegria]

The current anti-immigration policies are not good for the economy, we have food rotting in the fields and skilled labour going to Canada.

This is a huge understatement, to be honest. The economically ideal amount of immigration is way higher than any of our politicians are willing to allow. Immigration actually creates a net positive amount of jobs. We could have so much more growth if we simply repealed most of our immigration restrictions, granted all immigrants citizenship so they could be fully integrated into our economy, and educated people about the economic benefits of immigration to prevent nationalists from wrecking everything again.

There are of course 'economic benefits' to allowing swarms of unskilled people desperate for any job they can get their hands on subsequently allowing employers to pay them a pittance and treat them like shite. But there are social ramifications to such widescale immigration: perhaps not such a problem for somewhere without culture like America but highly problematic for somewhere like the UK.

[Risottia]

Early 70s Poland tried the "consumer socialism" approach.

The country was basically stuck in crisis from 1976 to 1991.

It was characterized by the struggle for democracy. Socialism should be democratic.

Socialism is either democratic socialism or authoritarian State capitalism. Dubček tried to do the former, Brežněv imposed the latter and fucked up the Soviet bloc for good.

[First American Empire]

This is a huge understatement, to be honest. The economically ideal amount of immigration is way higher than any of our politicians are willing to allow. Immigration actually creates a net positive amount of jobs. We could have so much more growth if we simply repealed most of our immigration restrictions, granted all immigrants citizenship so they could be fully integrated into our economy, and educated people about the economic benefits of immigration to prevent nationalists from wrecking everything again.

There are of course 'economic benefits' to allowing swarms of unskilled people desperate for any job they can get their hands on subsequently allowing employers to pay them a pittance and treat them like shite. But there are social ramifications to such widescale immigration: perhaps not such a problem for somewhere without culture like America but highly problematic for somewhere like the UK.

Immigrants create more jobs than they take up. More jobs leads to lower unemployment, and low unemployment leads to higher wages.

[Greater Loegria]

There are of course 'economic benefits' to allowing swarms of unskilled people desperate for any job they can get their hands on subsequently allowing employers to pay them a pittance and treat them like shite. But there are social ramifications to such widescale immigration: perhaps not such a problem for somewhere without culture like America but highly problematic for somewhere like the UK.

Immigrants create more jobs than they take up. More jobs leads to lower unemployment, and low unemployment leads to higher wages.

Well that might well be a fine and dandy economic model but the reality is the desperate migrants are far easier to exploit and much more desirable than native workers: they keep wages down because they are replaceable and expendable and in many cases do not have much choice. But as I said that is to some extent neither here nor there when it becomes an issue of cultural pressure.

[Soviet-American Combine]

Socialism is either democratic socialism or authoritarian State capitalism.

There is no such thing as state capitalism in the sense you are thinking. The Soviet Union was degenerated bureaucratically.

[Petrolheadia]

Early 70s Poland tried the "consumer socialism" approach.

The country was basically stuck in crisis from 1976 to 1991.

It was characterized by the struggle for democracy. Socialism should be democratic.

Democracy, but also capitalism.

Nothing has ever worked as well for our nation as adopting capitalism and joining the EU.

[Soviet-American Combine]

There are of course 'economic benefits' to allowing swarms of unskilled people desperate for any job they can get their hands on subsequently allowing employers to pay them a pittance and treat them like shite. But there are social ramifications to such widescale immigration: perhaps not such a problem for somewhere without culture like America but highly problematic for somewhere like the UK.

One should of course enforce the minimum wage. And I suggest educating people, checking or testing for criminality, etc.

[Soviet-American Combine]

Nothing has ever worked as well for our nation as adopting capitalism and joining the EU.

You were of course industrialized under the planned economy. But then I don’t suggest the 1900’s was socialism’s time. Though it might have been if it were democratic.

[Petrolheadia]

Nothing has ever worked as well for our nation as adopting capitalism and joining the EU.

You were of course industrialized under the planned economy. But then I don’t suggest the 1900’s was socialism’s time. Though it might have been if it were democratic.

Industrialized, just like many capitalist nations. Only that our industry failed to stand the market test when it was exposed to it in the 90s.

[Hurdergaryp]

You were of course industrialized under the planned economy. But then I don’t suggest the 1900’s was socialism’s time. Though it might have been if it were democratic.

Industrialized, just like many capitalist nations. Only that our industry failed to stand the market test when it was exposed to it in the 90s.

The market is ruthlessly efficient like that. However, when left to its own devices, the market is also utterly corrupt and inhuman.