NATION

PASSWORD

Assange wanted on new charges; Espionage (US) and rape (Swe)

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Advertisement

Remove ads

User avatar
Hirota
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7528
Founded: Jan 22, 2004
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Hirota » Tue May 28, 2019 6:00 am

Novus America wrote:I never said he was a conscious Russian agent.
More a useful idiot or fellow traveler.

And at some point we have to use Occam’s razor.
2+2+x=5 if x is one, and we see all evidence to pointing to x as one.
Certainly one cannot dispute Assange is decidedly biased in favor of Russia, she how he denied the DNC data came from Russia.

And criticisms of the US justice system do not apply to Sweden.
Agreed - you did not say him (or wikileaks) were conscious agents. It's why I added "willingly or wittingly or not" in my post, but I should have made that clearer in the original version.

And Occam’s razor is useful enough, but I personally would rather see actual evidence than supposition.

And I've already gone on record as saying I believe the extradition to Sweden is nothing to do with his occupation as a journalist/whistleblower/Russian agent, so why I might cynically think this extradition is more likely to lead to the one to America (with absolutely no evidence to support that belief), it is only right he stand trial and his guilt be proven...or not, as the case may be.

Vassenor wrote:You really are that desperate to defend George Galloway's honour, aren't you?
You really are that desperate to avoid basic reading and comprehension aren't you? No, I'm really not that concerned about defending a gentleman I disagree with on many, many things. You just don't like that your own flaky and logic deficient standards for apparently being labelled a stooge were turned around on glorious leader and demonstrated how utterly and consistently useless you are in even basic discussion and debate. All you've got is playing dumb, sticking your fingers in your ears and continuously misrepresenting your fellow posters.

And I'm delighted that you keep giving people the opportunity to see it.
Last edited by Hirota on Tue May 28, 2019 2:33 pm, edited 3 times in total.
When a wise man points at the moon the imbecile examines the finger - Confucius
Known to trigger Grammar Nazis, Spelling Nazis, Actual Nazis, the emotionally stunted and pedants.
Those affected by the views, opinions or general demeanour of this poster should review this puppy picture. Those affected by puppy pictures should consider investing in an isolation tank.

Economic Left/Right: -3.25, Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.03
Isn't it curious how people will claim they are against tribalism, then pigeonhole themselves into tribes?

It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
I use obviously in italics to emphasise the conveying of sarcasm. If I've put excessive obviously's into a post that means I'm being sarcastic

User avatar
Gravlen
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 17261
Founded: Jul 01, 2005
Father Knows Best State

Postby Gravlen » Tue May 28, 2019 7:24 am

Purpelia wrote:
Gravlen wrote:Especially considering the one has got nothing to do with the other. Prosecuting Assange for rape or not prosecuting Assange for rape has got no bearing whatsoever on the question of daring to reveal US secrets.

The question really is "Can people be whistleblowers and yet still worthy of prosecution for unrelated crimes?" to which the answer should be "Of course, why are you even asking about this?"

Are you honestly claiming that he would not be extradited to america the moment he sets foot in Sweden?

Absolutely, no question.

First of all, Sweden has a high level of credibility in these kinds of matters and a functioning legal system.

Second, why would Sweden restart the process of having him extradited while there was an active claim of extradition from the US, setting the stage for a potential conflict between the two claims, if the end goal is just to ship him on to the US?

There's no reason to believe that Sweden will simply extradite him onwards if he's sent to Sweden, and that's not how the Swedish legal system functions either. It could also be noted that helping the Trump administration in this matter would be a very unpopular move. He currently enjoys a whopping 17% confidence rating in Sweden (mostly carried by supporters of the far-right btw).
EnragedMaldivians wrote:That's preposterous. Gravlens's not a white nationalist; Gravlen's a penguin.

Unio de Sovetaj Socialismaj Respublikoj wrote:There is no use arguing the definition of murder with someone who has a picture of a penguin with a chainsaw as their nations flag.

User avatar
Galloism
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 73175
Founded: Aug 20, 2005
Father Knows Best State

Postby Galloism » Tue May 28, 2019 7:27 am

Gravlen wrote:
Purpelia wrote:Are you honestly claiming that he would not be extradited to america the moment he sets foot in Sweden?

Absolutely, no question.

First of all, Sweden has a high level of credibility in these kinds of matters and a functioning legal system.

Second, why would Sweden restart the process of having him extradited while there was an active claim of extradition from the US, setting the stage for a potential conflict between the two claims, if the end goal is just to ship him on to the US?

There's no reason to believe that Sweden will simply extradite him onwards if he's sent to Sweden, and that's not how the Swedish legal system functions either. It could also be noted that helping the Trump administration in this matter would be a very unpopular move. He currently enjoys a whopping 17% confidence rating in Sweden (mostly carried by supporters of the far-right btw).

It's also worth note Sweden has a history of refusing to extradite to the United States because our prisons are not up to Swedish standards.
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
The Parkus Empire: Being serious on NSG is like wearing a suit to a nude beach.
New Kereptica: Since power is changed energy over time, an increase in power would mean, in this case, an increase in energy. As energy is equivalent to mass and the density of the government is static, the volume of the government must increase.


User avatar
Gravlen
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 17261
Founded: Jul 01, 2005
Father Knows Best State

Postby Gravlen » Tue May 28, 2019 7:54 am

Vassenor wrote:
Purpelia wrote:Are you honestly claiming that he would not be extradited to america the moment he sets foot in Sweden?


Sweden has already stated on multiple occasions that they won't extradite because of how shit America's justice system is.

This is not true. Sweden has repeatedly stated that they will not give any guarantees against extradition, and that no decision will be made until and unless a request for extradition is presented to them so they can deal with the claim based on its merits. If such a request is made, they will follow the procedure prescribed by law. That means that the courts will have to decide.

However, do we have any idea what the courts might say if the US requests an extradition from Sweden? Well, we have more information that we did before. Here's part of what Pål Wrange, professor in international law at the University in Stockholm wrote back in 2012:

Assange can in principle be extradited from Sweden to the U.S., but that would require that a number of conditions be met, including that the U.S. guarantees that the death penalty will not be imposed / enforced, that the crimes are not considered to be political offenses or military offense, and that there is double criminality, meaning that the act is criminal also under the laws of the country from which extraditions is sought. When extradition requests are made from the US, the Americans regularly guarantee that the the death penalty will not imposed or carried out. Therefore, I believe that if a request is made, the crucial issue is whether the there is double criminality and whether it is for a non-political and non-military crime.

[...]

Espionage is considered a political crime, so for that Assange could not be extradited. Both Swedish law and the Swedish extradition treaty with the United States prohibit extradition for such offenses.


(My bolding and underlining)

The extended charges recently made makes it less likely that he'll be extradited from Sweden.
Last edited by Gravlen on Tue May 28, 2019 7:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
EnragedMaldivians wrote:That's preposterous. Gravlens's not a white nationalist; Gravlen's a penguin.

Unio de Sovetaj Socialismaj Respublikoj wrote:There is no use arguing the definition of murder with someone who has a picture of a penguin with a chainsaw as their nations flag.

User avatar
Hirota
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7528
Founded: Jan 22, 2004
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Hirota » Tue May 28, 2019 8:50 am

Interesting source Gravlen, he's talked about Assange a few times other than the one you linked, and it's good to get a Scandanavian perspective as things have developed.
When a wise man points at the moon the imbecile examines the finger - Confucius
Known to trigger Grammar Nazis, Spelling Nazis, Actual Nazis, the emotionally stunted and pedants.
Those affected by the views, opinions or general demeanour of this poster should review this puppy picture. Those affected by puppy pictures should consider investing in an isolation tank.

Economic Left/Right: -3.25, Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.03
Isn't it curious how people will claim they are against tribalism, then pigeonhole themselves into tribes?

It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
I use obviously in italics to emphasise the conveying of sarcasm. If I've put excessive obviously's into a post that means I'm being sarcastic

User avatar
Gormwood
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14727
Founded: Mar 25, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Gormwood » Sun Jun 02, 2019 2:16 pm

Assange won’t face charges over role in devastating CIA leak

At least he didn't get off on the rape charges.
Bloodthirsty savages who call for violence against the Right while simultaneously being unarmed defenseless sissies who will get slaughtered by the gun-toting Right in a civil war.
Breath So Bad, It Actually Drives People Mad

User avatar
Rosyanna
Political Columnist
 
Posts: 3
Founded: Mar 15, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Rosyanna » Fri Jul 05, 2019 2:11 am

The idea of Juilan Assange did not posting thing on Russia is false because he posted the Spy Files Russia which was put of the Spy Files Collection.

I'm late.
Last edited by Rosyanna on Fri Jul 05, 2019 2:13 am, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
-Ocelot-
Minister
 
Posts: 2260
Founded: Jun 14, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby -Ocelot- » Fri Jul 05, 2019 2:24 am

Vassenor wrote:So we've still got people banging the "he made America look bad and so can do no wrong" drum?


The fact that Assange is still hailed as some hero by some shows just how effective Russian propaganda is. They've elevated a Russian spy whose job is to destabilize the US into a hero and made his very enemies (Americans) cheer for him.

User avatar
Ifreann
Post Overlord
 
Posts: 163951
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Iron Fist Socialists

Postby Ifreann » Fri Jul 05, 2019 6:24 am

Gormwood wrote:Assange won’t face charges over role in devastating CIA leak

At least he didn't get off on the rape charges.

The US extradition case is still proceeding on the espionage charges that we already knew about. This is just additional charges not being added.
He/Him

beating the devil
we never run from the devil
we never summon the devil
we never hide from from the devil
we never

Previous

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Eahland, Majestic-12 [Bot], Neu California, Port Carverton, Shrillland, Stellar Colonies, The Black Forrest, Tlaceceyaya, Uiiop

Advertisement

Remove ads