Mercy To Your Enemy?

[The Free Joy State]

This is not a scenario that tests our anger. This is asking a question: are some crimes so bad that they do not deserve clemency?

Crimes against humanity deserve no clemency.

Of course, if there was a court where she could be correctly tried, there would be no question of an extra-judicial killing (it would be improper form).

But if it came to letting Witchy Hitler live a long and healthy life-- after causing so much pain -- or an extra-judicial killing... whoops, my finger slipped.

The way I see it, it is in part a test of self-control/anger management

The scenario makes it very clear that she did a LOT of things to upset you (killed civilians of your nation, mind controlled you and had you do lots of killing, killed your magic user friends etc). So you have a lot of reasons to want to kill her and take revenge. In fact, its the easy choice. You're pumped up from the duel, you hate her, and there's an opportunity to kill her (and with adrenaline pumping, many may go for the kill).

The much harder choice here is to let go of the anger and follow the protocol. That's HARD.

Legally speaking, you have absolutely no authority whatsoever to execute her. The correct thing to do, since she did surrender, legally and ethically according to the rules of warfare (even if its not codified), is to turn her in to high command. Whether or not high command has a policy that's too lenient isn't really your concern as a soldier.

Hence its meant to divide the people into two distinct groups:

1. The rules-focused people and/or the people who don't want to kill an unarmed person

and

2. The people who are out FOR BLOOD (and the scenario gives you plenty of reason to hate her), who will give in to anger and decide that the rules don't matter in this situation (high command can be lied to, circumvented, or else ignored... I know better)

No, IM. That's not what it tests.

A simple: "Could you control your anger" scenario would have a character who murdered someone dear to you, not Witchy Hitler, authoress of war-crimes untold, unapologetic murderess of millions.

This is not a test of whether you can control your anger.

Even a genuine saint would most likely find themselves untroubled by the extra-judicial killing of Hitler Number Two.

[Free Arabian Nation]

The way I see it, it is in part a test of self-control/anger management

The scenario makes it very clear that she did a LOT of things to upset you (killed civilians of your nation, mind controlled you and had you do lots of killing, killed your magic user friends etc). So you have a lot of reasons to want to kill her and take revenge. In fact, its the easy choice. You're pumped up from the duel, you hate her, and there's an opportunity to kill her (and with adrenaline pumping, many may go for the kill).

The much harder choice here is to let go of the anger and follow the protocol. That's HARD.

Legally speaking, you have absolutely no authority whatsoever to execute her. The correct thing to do, since she did surrender, legally and ethically according to the rules of warfare (even if its not codified), is to turn her in to high command. Whether or not high command has a policy that's too lenient isn't really your concern as a soldier.

Hence its meant to divide the people into two distinct groups:

1. The rules-focused people and/or the people who don't want to kill an unarmed person

and

2. The people who are out FOR BLOOD (and the scenario gives you plenty of reason to hate her), who will give in to anger and decide that the rules don't matter in this situation (high command can be lied to, circumvented, or else ignored... I know better)

No, IM. That's not what it tests.

A simple: "Could you control your anger" scenario would have a character who murdered someone dear to you, not Witchy Hitler, authoress of war-crimes untold, unapologetic murderess of millions.

This is not a test of whether you can control your anger.

Even a genuine saint would most likely find themselves untroubled by the extra-judicial killing of Hitler Number Two.

^^^

Unless your a Sociopath... no, Sociopaths definitely wouldn't care. Uh... unless you've gone absolutely insane, then there is no way someone would feel enough empathy towards Witch-Hitler

[Infected Mushroom]

The way I see it, it is in part a test of self-control/anger management

The scenario makes it very clear that she did a LOT of things to upset you (killed civilians of your nation, mind controlled you and had you do lots of killing, killed your magic user friends etc). So you have a lot of reasons to want to kill her and take revenge. In fact, its the easy choice. You're pumped up from the duel, you hate her, and there's an opportunity to kill her (and with adrenaline pumping, many may go for the kill).

The much harder choice here is to let go of the anger and follow the protocol. That's HARD.

Legally speaking, you have absolutely no authority whatsoever to execute her. The correct thing to do, since she did surrender, legally and ethically according to the rules of warfare (even if its not codified), is to turn her in to high command. Whether or not high command has a policy that's too lenient isn't really your concern as a soldier.

Hence its meant to divide the people into two distinct groups:

1. The rules-focused people and/or the people who don't want to kill an unarmed person

and

2. The people who are out FOR BLOOD (and the scenario gives you plenty of reason to hate her), who will give in to anger and decide that the rules don't matter in this situation (high command can be lied to, circumvented, or else ignored... I know better)

No, IM. That's not what it tests.

A simple: "Could you control your anger" scenario would have a character who murdered someone dear to you, not Witchy Hitler, authoress of war-crimes untold, unapologetic murderess of millions.

This is not a test of whether you can control your anger.

Even a genuine saint would most likely find themselves untroubled by the extra-judicial killing of Hitler Number Two.

The scenario goes to great lengths to describe the wrongs that she has done to you personally (in addition to killed civilians). Then it places you in a position of advantage and in a rhythm (after a duel) where you might decide to say "forget about the rules, I'm killing her now." So there is definitely an element that tests whether or not you will try to go for revenge.

[Free Arabian Nation]

No, IM. That's not what it tests.

A simple: "Could you control your anger" scenario would have a character who murdered someone dear to you, not Witchy Hitler, authoress of war-crimes untold, unapologetic murderess of millions.

This is not a test of whether you can control your anger.

Even a genuine saint would most likely find themselves untroubled by the extra-judicial killing of Hitler Number Two.

The scenario goes to great lengths to describe the wrongs that she has done to you personally (in addition to killed civilians). Then it places you in a position of advantage and in a rhythm (after a duel) where you might decide to say "forget about the rules, I'm killing her now." So there is definitely an element that tests whether or not you will try to go for revenge.

At this point, I'm pretty sure most people aren't out for revenge they're out for blood because this bitch killed millions

[Infected Mushroom]

No, IM. That's not what it tests.

A simple: "Could you control your anger" scenario would have a character who murdered someone dear to you, not Witchy Hitler, authoress of war-crimes untold, unapologetic murderess of millions.

This is not a test of whether you can control your anger.

Even a genuine saint would most likely find themselves untroubled by the extra-judicial killing of Hitler Number Two.

^^^

Unless your a Sociopath... no, Sociopaths definitely wouldn't care. Uh... unless you've gone absolutely insane, then there is no way someone would feel enough empathy towards Witch-Hitler

I don't think empathy is required to spare her life. Some people are just inclined to follow the rules or may have personal off-limit in terms of executing unarmed surrendered parties. It doesn't have to come from empathy.

I'm not sure there is a morally correct answer; which is why scenarios like these are so interesting.

[Erythrean Thebes]

But keep in mind, you're fighting with magic. It's more like a battle of wits, and your body's instinctual kill centers may not turn on

[Infected Mushroom]

The scenario goes to great lengths to describe the wrongs that she has done to you personally (in addition to killed civilians). Then it places you in a position of advantage and in a rhythm (after a duel) where you might decide to say "forget about the rules, I'm killing her now." So there is definitely an element that tests whether or not you will try to go for revenge.

At this point, I'm pretty sure most people aren't out for revenge they're out for blood because this bitch killed millions

if she didn't kill any of your friends or mind control you (the posters), then I have a feeling the votes to execute her would drop substantially

[The Free Joy State]

No, IM. That's not what it tests.

A simple: "Could you control your anger" scenario would have a character who murdered someone dear to you, not Witchy Hitler, authoress of war-crimes untold, unapologetic murderess of millions.

This is not a test of whether you can control your anger.

Even a genuine saint would most likely find themselves untroubled by the extra-judicial killing of Hitler Number Two.

The scenario goes to great lengths to describe the wrongs that she has done to you personally (in addition to killed civilians). Then it places you in a position of advantage and in a rhythm (after a duel) where you might decide to say "forget about the rules, I'm killing her now." So there is definitely an element that tests whether or not you will try to go for revenge.

No. Witchy Hitler isn't just my enemy. Even if she had not harmed a head on the head of one person known to me personally, she has still killed millions. She is a danger to humanity.

This is a test of her crimes, not of my nature.

[Free Arabian Nation]

At this point, I'm pretty sure most people aren't out for revenge they're out for blood because this bitch killed millions

if she didn't kill any of your friends or mind control you (the posters), then I have a feeling the votes to execute her would drop substantially

Seeing how most of these arguments for why boil down to "She's Hitler 2: Electric Boogaloo", I can't say I agree with you.

[Old Tyrannia]

Even a genuine saint would most likely find themselves untroubled by the extra-judicial killing of Hitler Number Two.

Of course a genuine saint would be troubled. A genuine saint, that is, someone whose desires are attuned to those of God, would be troubled by any killing and desire the salvation of anyone, regardless of their prior actions. You can't be a saint if you withhold forgiveness.

[Kowani]

Why on earth would I let her live?

she's unarmed, injured and has surrendered

None of those are good reasons.

[The Free Joy State]

Even a genuine saint would most likely find themselves untroubled by the extra-judicial killing of Hitler Number Two.

Of course a genuine saint would be troubled. A genuine saint, that is, someone whose desires are attuned to those of God, would be troubled by any killing and desire the salvation of anyone, regardless of their prior actions. You can't be a saint if you withhold forgiveness.

St. Olga of Kiev, whose deeds purportedly included burning and burying Drevlian men alive when they killed her husband.

Because all saints are saintly, all the time...

[Old Tyrannia]

Of course a genuine saint would be troubled. A genuine saint, that is, someone whose desires are attuned to those of God, would be troubled by any killing and desire the salvation of anyone, regardless of their prior actions. You can't be a saint if you withhold forgiveness.

St. Olga of Kiev, whose deeds purportedly included burning and burying Drevlian men alive when they killed her husband.

Because all saints are saintly, all the time...

Even if the story is true, which is disputable, Olga was not a saint or even a Christian at the time the massacre of the Drevlians was said to have happened.

[Krasny-Volny]

Spare her. Forgive her. Move on.

As Luke 6:35-36 says, "But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and the wicked. Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful."

[Andsed]

Why on earth would I let her live?

she's unarmed, injured and has surrendered

So? She is a war criminal who killed millions for her own selfish reasons and she has shown little remorse for her action. Fuck her life in prison is to good for her.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Spare her. Forgive her. Move on.

As Luke 6:35-36 says, "But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and the wicked. Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful."

So then are you against any punishment for a crime? Or better yet, are you against any punishment for anything wrong?

[Old Tyrannia]

Spare her. Forgive her. Move on.

As Luke 6:35-36 says, "But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and the wicked. Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful."

A true Christian at last. God bless you.

Spare her. Forgive her. Move on.

As Luke 6:35-36 says, "But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and the wicked. Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful."

So then are you against any punishment for a crime? Or better yet, are you against any punishment for anything wrong?

Forgiveness is not the same thing as a reprieve. The question in the OP is whether you kill your enemy for the sake of revenge or justice, or pass her over into the hands of the lawful authorities in accordance with due process. It's stated that in this scenario, she will spend the rest of her life under imprisonment, as is right and proper.

[Dogmeat]

Spare her. Forgive her. Move on.

As Luke 6:35-36 says, "But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and the wicked. Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful."

As Conan said, "Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentation of their women."

[Excelsion]

Option 4:

First, I would take all her magic potential and magic power. I woul essentially turn her into a mortal non-sorceress.
Then I would wipe her memory completely, in regard of who she was and what she had done. Permanently.
The truth isnt always good or necessary. Why deal with a past that only hurts and fuels negative emotions. Life can be so beautiful so she should be able to experience it. Dont get me wrong. Annie is just another selfish brat that decided to lash out and let others feel her pain. She is just that, a brat. A brat with a lot of power up to this point, true, but nothing more than that. And selfish brats should be reprimanded and disciplined, but not killed. I do feel sorry for her past, but that doesnt justify her actions.
I don't feel a thirst of revenge for all the humans who died. I am sure great people were among them. Fathers, mothers, spouses. But they allowed their society to transform into one that abuses magic users. They planted the seeds of hate and reaped the following death. Even if the did'nt directly caused Annie's suffering, everyone had a part by allowing it to happen. And so I will not add a life that can be spared to their count.
Life is'nt fair. And I will not justify my actions to anyone. No justice is universal or all encompassing. So I will put my own selfish justice above their's. Not as a hero, or good person, just as another, simple, selfish man, opposing fate and the gods, if there are any.

I would entrap all my friends and allies, without harm if possible, on the battlefield.
I would cheat the world and let to all be known that all this time, witch queen Annie had been my puppet and that I had enslaved her will and mind since a long time ago. I would tell them I only acted as if I had been enslaved to her, when in reality, it had been the other way round. I would tell them that I had been the one, doing all the killing, that I was the one who commanded all the killing and that I did it because they oppressed and harmed the magic users. That it is their hatred of my kind that caused all of this. I would then tell them that I lament that so many of my own kind had chosen to assist the normal humans, even though they had been treated so harshly in society. I would tell them all then, that I don't associate with those filthy traitors, those human loving magic users. That scum. I would tell them that I will hunt down and kill all those magic users that assisted and protected mankind. I would then leave the battlefield. I would take the now, nothing knowing Annie with me by force.

Then I would pursue all the other relics, incorporating their magic into me while enslaving the minds of all the sentient races, safe for Annie and a few selected indivduals, the heroes among the heroes, my former friends and allies.
I would subject the enslaved races to the same treatment Annie got in her life, harsh and cruel, but not life threatening.
I would take the now 'innocent' Annie with me - by force, as I said. But not cruel or violently. Just with simple magic commands that force her to walk by my side. And I would make her believe that she is just a normal girl. A tool I had used.
In the following days and weeks to come I would show her the beauty of life and beauty of humanity. I would show her the whisper of the wind, the sun's warm touch. The beauty of selfless people and all the stories of humanity's saints and heroes. I would show her mankind's good side. I would show her a parents love for a child. People's love for animals. How people can be kind and mindful. Giving without reciprocation. I would tell her that her parents had been great people and that they wanted her to grow up kind and thoughtful.
I then would retreat with Annie to the main castle of the former 'witch queen'.
I would free the surviving dragons' minds and apologize to them for killing their kin, all in secret of course. I then would look for the most wise and just among them, and grant it nearly half of all my magical power. I would forge with it a magical contract, that in return for the power it has to protect humankind and especially innocent people with magical talent, as well as the fairies. I would task it with overseeing this world and guiding it toward prosperity and peace. I would also tell the now dragon-king to keep itself and its kin out of what was going to come soon. I would also have it vow to keep our contract and meeting in eternal silence and pass it's task on to it's successor.
I would then return to my castle where Annie is kept and wait for the heroes that I had'nt enslaved. To assemble their forces and make one last desperate attack.
As soon as they challenge me and enter the throne room I would make fun of them and their pitiful attempt. At this point, because I had shown Anna the beauty of life and humanity she would probably have ambiguous feelings about me. Since I am supposedly a slaughterer of millions and all. I would then tell all the heroes and heroines on stage that I had prepared 'a show for them'.
Myself, Annie and all the heroes and allies in the throne room are assembled. I would then put Annie before myself. I would say "Look at this child. Shes an exemplary slave. All this while she has done my bidding without knowing anything, like a good mindless tool should. However, now I have no use for her anymore, so I shall delight in her knowing the truth of what happended in the past, again."
I would then create a magical illusion inside of the throne room. It would be the scene of a loving family. A doting father, a loving mother, a grown up young son and a young adolescent daughter - the image of a younger Annie. I would give her family names and all, inside of the illusion to make it look credible. I would let the illusions show a lot of scenes. Annie growing up in her family, happily and with smiles every day. As a normal girl. After a succession of these scenes
I would show an illusion of myself slaughtering Annie's supposed family brutally and enjoying myself while doing it. In the illusion Annie would grab a knive while I slaughter her family and running toward me with it, screaming, trying to stab and kill me. I would laugh in the illusion. Of course, I unhand the knive in her hand and push her back. Still inside the shown illusion I would tell her: You have courage brat, I may have use for you. The I would let the illusion end with me putting my hand on her head, using an enslavement spell.

Now the illusion in the whole throne room would end.

I then look at Annie and tell her:" Because of me your parents and brother died. Your father was a very talented mage, but what a shame, he sided with the humans and helped them with his magic, he deserved to die." Then I would smile cruelly. "You were a bright and cheerful girl and I very much enjoyed your screams and anguish when I killed your family in front of your eyes.
Every once in a while since I have enslaved you, I show you your true memories and relish in your truly sublime reactions. I would wipe your memories over and over again and show you this truth again and again, little puppet.Hahaha. this is why I showed you this world's and people's beauty, too."
Annie would certainly be horrified, and very, very angry and hateful. I would push her behind myself and magically bind her to the ground in a sitting position.

I would certainly further fuel her rage and anger and pull out my sword out of it's sheat. I would throw it in front of Annie, who is behind myself and say:" Maybe you want to try it again little Annie?Then maybe all these people here won't have to scream like mommy and daddy."
This would certainly make her struggle against the magical binding in an effort to kill me, the object of her hate.
Of course, all these illusions I had shown, were not only shown to her but all the people assembled in the throne room, all those heroes and their allies.
They would certainly seethe with anger and hatred too, at seeing such a scene.
I would then fight it out with them. I would match their power, and draw out the fight. I would act like I had no good control over the massive magical energy inside of myself.
During the battle with the heroes I would slowly loosen Annie's magic bindings, all the while she is struggling against them until they are gone. During the battle I would then start to overwhelm the heroes and seriously harm them. I would push them to the ground and just as Annie's bindings are undone, I would act like I will deliver the finishing blow to the heroes. I would act like I didn't notice Annie approaching from behind my back, where she was bound by my magic before, now holding my sword that I had mockingly thrown in front of her. I would wait for her. And just as I attempt to finish my conjuration I would let her penetrate my body with my sword from my back and I would smile as I close my eyes.

Why would I do all this?
Who knows. But I wil at least say this: Isn't the loss of loved ones the most fitting punishment for a murderer?

(I have written this casually on my smartphone for the past few minutes, so dunno there may be be some grammar and sentece mistakes.)

[Krasny-Volny]

Spare her. Forgive her. Move on.

As Luke 6:35-36 says, "But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and the wicked. Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful."

So then are you against any punishment for a crime? Or better yet, are you against any punishment for anything wrong?

No.

I am against me punishing my enemies personally for the sake of vengeance.

Romans 12:17-19 says, "Repay no one for evil...do not avenge yourselves, but rather give place to wrath; for it is written: 'Vengeance is mine, I will repay,' says the Lord."

I have to respect the decision of the courts if they sentence my enemy. I have to respect respect the judgment of God if He exacts vengeance on her. But I cannot hate my enemy or avenge myself on her.

[Esternial]

I wouldn't kill anybody who is unarmed, so instead I give her the same fighting chance she gave everyone else - an unfair one.

this is a pretty shocking way for her to die... in-character she would instinctively pick up the wand (without much thought, more as a reflex) but has no idea you intend to very immediately go for a killing blow; her large eyes will be wide open with shock

Would be shocking for her, I can imagine, she sounds as dense as the population density of Mumbai.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Forgiveness is not the same thing as a reprieve. The question in the OP is whether you kill your enemy for the sake of revenge or justice, or pass her over into the hands of the lawful authorities in accordance with due process. It's stated that in this scenario, she will spend the rest of her life under imprisonment, as is right and proper.

Ok but what's the point of punishment if you forgive her?

So then are you against any punishment for a crime? Or better yet, are you against any punishment for anything wrong?

No.

I am against me punishing my enemies personally for the sake of vengeance.

Romans 12:17-19 says, "Repay no one for evil...do not avenge yourselves, but rather give place to wrath; for it is written: 'Vengeance is mine, I will repay,' says the Lord."

I have to respect the decision of the courts if they sentence my enemy. I have to respect respect the judgment of God if He exacts vengeance on her. But I cannot hate my enemy or avenge myself on her.

So you're just passing off judgement to the authorities then. But if you forgive her anyway then what's the point in turning her in. Then again, that wasn't what you said, so would you just forgive her and leave her alone?

[Kragholm Free States]

snip

what the actual fuck

[Old Tyrannia]

Forgiveness is not the same thing as a reprieve. The question in the OP is whether you kill your enemy for the sake of revenge or justice, or pass her over into the hands of the lawful authorities in accordance with due process. It's stated that in this scenario, she will spend the rest of her life under imprisonment, as is right and proper.

Ok but what's the point of punishment if you forgive her?

I'm not sure that you understand what "forgiveness" means in a Christian context. As I said, forgivness is not the same as a reprieve. Obviously, the reason for imprisoning a known mass murderer is to prevent her from killing anyone else.

[Excelsion]

this is a pretty shocking way for her to die... in-character she would instinctively pick up the wand (without much thought, more as a reflex) but has no idea you intend to very immediately go for a killing blow; her large eyes will be wide open with shock

Would be shocking for her, I can imagine, she sounds as dense as the population density of Mumbai.

Pragmatically speaking it doesnt make a difference whether you kill her or not. The world will still hate magic users, now even more than before and magic users will still foster hatred. While killing her is the obvious choice, it won't change the grander picture and at some point, history will foolishly repeat, with other chess pieces.
Also what about you. Controlled by magic or not, you killed thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands people with your own hands. Are you absolved from those actions just because you had no control over them, just like a mentally ill person in our world?
Now some people could argue that Annie was mentally ill
too, does that mean she is absolved from killing?

Its all not that simple. Also, I think those hitler comparisons are rather distasteful. Hitler had a goal and hatred for no justifiable reason. And he killed people because of different ngenetics. Annie just had burning hatred for anything and everthing. She killed her own kind too, a lot of them at that.