Islamic Discussion Thread ٥: Free Tajweed, Absolutely Halaal

[A m e n r i a]

*fundamentalist Islam

Mate, you realize how many problems come from overpopulation, right? Not only there's not enough food to go around (no thanks to capitalism), more people means more pollution, not to mention poverty and social problems. The trend of people having less children here in the East is a good one, and I hope more of our brothers can follow suit.

No. Islam itself.

China has also had to alter its one child policy slightly to what I recall if I'm correct, people being allowed to have a son and daughter because having strictly one child itself was an issue, and Xi Jinping awknowledged that.

Please demonstrate how more people cause poverty and social problems?

Yea, citizens can have two children now if both parents are the only child in their family.

When you get more people and not enough jobs, people go unemployed. When people go unemployed, they get poor.

With ramadan fast (ha) approaching. How does it work for people who live north of the pole circle during summer?

On one hand, the duration I have to keep myself from eating, drinking, getting pissed off, etc is longer than back home. On the other hand, it's not as hot here, so not drinking for that long isn't as difficult as in Indonesia.

[Jolthig]

No. Islam itself.

China has also had to alter its one child policy slightly to what I recall if I'm correct, people being allowed to have a son and daughter because having strictly one child itself was an issue, and Xi Jinping awknowledged that.

Please demonstrate how more people cause poverty and social problems?

Yea, citizens can have two children now if both parents are the only child in their family.

When you get more people and not enough jobs, people go unemployed. When people go unemployed, they get poor.

Using this logic alone, this goes against the Quran completely and it denies that Allah is the provider for all people, and I'm only saying this, brother because you're Muslim. Had this been an atheist saying this, I would'nt of brought up the Quran.

But anyway, there are way more factors than just a population increase alone. When mao zedong ruled China, he made several families produce multiple children to produce a labor force to build his vision of New Democracy. The population increase in itself wasnt the problem, but it was become of economic and financial mismanagement that many starved and many went unemployed. Mao's poor thinking set China back greatly. Which now, we're veering off into LWDT.

[A m e n r i a]

Yea, citizens can have two children now if both parents are the only child in their family.

When you get more people and not enough jobs, people go unemployed. When people go unemployed, they get poor.

Using this logic alone, this goes against the Quran completely and it denies that Allah is the provider for all people, and I'm only saying this, brother because you're Muslim. Had this been an atheist saying this, I would'nt of brought up the Quran.

But anyway, there are way more factors than just a population increase alone. When mao zedong ruled China, he made several families produce multiple children to produce a labor force to build his vision of New Democracy. The population increase in itself wasnt the problem, but it was become of economic and financial mismanagement that many starved and many went unemployed. Mao's poor thinking set China back greatly. Which now, we're veering off into LWDT.

It doesn't always work that way, mate. Most people don't instantly get food outta nowhere when they pray. Often times, you gotta provide for yourself. Still though, God created Earth and its resources to only sustain us. Then we fucked up. Real bad. Thanks to human tomfuckery, the number of people Earth's resources can sustain is decreasing. I'd doubt having more humans would cause less amount of fuckery involved. Sure, you could argue that we'll have housing under the sea in a while, and that we can always move to another planet once Earth is fucked enough, but that still doesn't guarantee the same thing won't happen all over again.

[Jolthig]

Using this logic alone, this goes against the Quran completely and it denies that Allah is the provider for all people, and I'm only saying this, brother because you're Muslim. Had this been an atheist saying this, I would'nt of brought up the Quran.

But anyway, there are way more factors than just a population increase alone. When mao zedong ruled China, he made several families produce multiple children to produce a labor force to build his vision of New Democracy. The population increase in itself wasnt the problem, but it was become of economic and financial mismanagement that many starved and many went unemployed. Mao's poor thinking set China back greatly. Which now, we're veering off into LWDT.

It doesn't always work that way, mate. Most people don't instantly get food outta nowhere when they pray. Often times, you gotta provide for yourself. Still though, God created Earth and its resources to only sustain us. Then we fucked up. Real bad. Thanks to human tomfuckery, the number of people Earth's resources can sustain is decreasing. I'd doubt having more humans would cause less amount of fuckery involved. Sure, you could argue that we'll have housing under the sea in a while, and that we can always move to another planet once Earth is fucked enough, but that still doesn't guarantee the same thing won't happen all over again.

I never said we get food out of nowhere. As the old saying goes: "God helps those who help themselves."

And yes, its because of human errors on why this planet is going downhill in the first place. That's why I say overpopulation in itself doesn't cause problems. There are way more factors involved than just numbers, which I'm sure you acknowledge.

[The Grims]

It is facts. Imma have to disagree with contraception being wrong though. There's enough humans as is, we don't need any more people having half a dozen children. The one child policy is brilliant.

That also goes against Islam because earth has plenty of food sources to sustain humanity and that Islam encourages families to have as many as they'd like.

Does that mean that Islam considers the production of food paramount ?
If so, should muslims not all be vegetarians because meat is wasteful and inefficient as a food source ?

[Jolthig]

That also goes against Islam because earth has plenty of food sources to sustain humanity and that Islam encourages families to have as many as they'd like.

Does that mean that Islam considers the production of food paramount ?
If so, should muslims not all be vegetarians because meat is wasteful and inefficient as a food source ?

I mean, people should have food, yes.

No. Also, overeating meat isn't encouraged in Islam either as it can make one angrier and more aggressive. Islam encourages a balanced food diet between meat and plant food.

[The Grims]

Does that mean that Islam considers the production of food paramount ?
If so, should muslims not all be vegetarians because meat is wasteful and inefficient as a food source ?

I mean, people should have food, yes.

No. Also, overeating meat isn't encouraged in Islam either as it can make one angrier and more aggressive. Islam encourages a balanced food diet between meat and plant food.

But if everyone turned vegetarian the earth could support about 10 times as many humans.
If we all go algae only perhaps even 100 times.

[Jolthig]

:idea:

I mean, people should have food, yes.

No. Also, overeating meat isn't encouraged in Islam either as it can make one angrier and more aggressive. Islam encourages a balanced food diet between meat and plant food.

But if everyone turned vegetarian the earth could support about 10 times as many humans.
If we all go algae only perhaps even 100 times.

We definitely should produce more grain, yes, and the recent decades have shown so. We can really feed many people. Basically you just proved the point I made to Amenria earlier that overpopulation is in itself not an issue, but because of economic mismanagement.

Though Islam doesnt prohibit meat nor do I personally wanna give up my meat eating.

[Negarakita]

With ramadan fast (ha) approaching. How does it work for people who live north of the pole circle during summer?

The fast the Meccan hours.

What should a man and a woman do if they do not have the means to support children ? Abstain ?

No. The Islamic philosophy is that Allah will provide the means of support for the parents.

This isn't true. Most modern jurists accept Azl to cover modern forms of contraception.
https://yaqeeninstitute.org/omar-suleim ... on-debate/

[Jolthig]

With ramadan fast (ha) approaching. How does it work for people who live north of the pole circle during summer?

The fast the Meccan hours.

No. The Islamic philosophy is that Allah will provide the means of support for the parents.

This isn't true. Most modern jurists accept Azl to cover modern forms of contraception.
https://yaqeeninstitute.org/omar-suleim ... on-debate/

Nice. I'll look into this article. Inshallah

[Kowani]

I know. I’m saying Islamic philosophy doesn’t match up with the facts.

Well, if you take out God, then Muslim couples got help from a variety of people such as the state.

Yes, how’s the Infant mortality rate throughout all the Islamic African Countries? Or not even Africa, but the rest of the Islamic world? And this isn’t counting kids who survive but are malnourished or sold into slavery because their parents can’t afford to take care of them.

[Jolthig]

Given that Ramadan is in two days, I'll be ceasing to debate from here on out to wean off of NSG and to prepare for Ramadan. Debating will resume when I come back from Ramadan, but I'll still answer anyone's questions on Islam here and there for the next couple days.

And if anyone has allegations against Islam. I'd recommend they read the material in my factbook.

[Jolthig]

Assalaam o alakium wa rahmatullah wa barakatu, brothers and sisters. As Ramadan is just around the corner in 20 minutes here, I wanna say, may this month be a source of guidance and blessings for you guys. As I've stated many times, I'll be logging off tonight until June 4th. My nation has been put in vacation mode.

It is time I focus on Allah 100% and on my weaknesses as well as to increase my knowledge and thinking very deeply regarding myself.

I hope and pray you guys are well.

My non-Muslim friends, thank you for taking your time to understand Islam despite all the controversy lately. I hope that you guys will understand the true Islam as presented by myself, being a member of my Jammat.

I hope you all are doing well. I'll be remaining online for another 15-20 minutes for people to say their goodbyes to me before leaving until June 4th.

Cheers, and peace be on you all!

[East Azadistan]

Assalaam o alakium wa rahmatullah wa barakatu, brothers and sisters. As Ramadan is just around the corner in 20 minutes here, I wanna say, may this month be a source of guidance and blessings for you guys. As I've stated many times, I'll be logging off tonight until June 4th. My nation has been put in vacation mode.

It is time I focus on Allah 100% and on my weaknesses as well as to increase my knowledge and thinking very deeply regarding myself.

I hope and pray you guys are well.

My non-Muslim friends, thank you for taking your time to understand Islam despite all the controversy lately. I hope that you guys will understand the true Islam as presented by myself, being a member of my Jammat.

I hope you all are doing well. I'll be remaining online for another 15-20 minutes for people to say their goodbyes to me before leaving until June 4th.

Cheers, and peace be on you all!

Goodbye, Allah hafiz(this is Saranidia)

[Hanafuridake]

1. What does it tell you? That he's going to come back as an Indian man and not as himself?
2. Buddhism was never monotheistic it's agnostic.

1. Yes.
2. According to Mirza Ghulam Ahmad's claims, it was originally monotheistic.

Mirza Ghulam Ahmad's claim is completely wrong. Historians agree that the Pali Nikayas and the Agamas are the most reliable historical insight into early Buddhism, none of them mention anything at all which can be construed as monotheistic. None of the earliest schools such as the Sarvastivada and Mahasamghika contain references to a monotheistic worldview, and such a belief would have stood out in polytheistic Vedic India. His claims should be rejected as false and ahistorical.

[North German Realm]

Holy hell this thread just dies off whenever Jolthig isn't around, doesn't it.

[A m e n r i a]

Holy hell this thread just dies off whenever Jolthig isn't around, doesn't it.

I got nothing to talk about. Have you?

[North German Realm]

Holy hell this thread just dies off whenever Jolthig isn't around, doesn't it.

I got nothing to talk about. Have you?

No. I mean, I could go on a rant about how Muslims are literally forcing me, an ardent misotheist who's nowhere masochist enough to torture himself by not drinking water in late Spring and early Summer, to take a fast-by-proxy by threatening to literally give me lashes if I'm seen drinking water in public. But that's irrelevant, especially as most people here don't support it -thankfully.
Jolthig just had a way of making new topics for us to debate with. Then again, there was also Amin and his hot takes too, so idk.

[A m e n r i a]

I got nothing to talk about. Have you?

No. I mean, I could go on a rant about how Muslims are literally forcing me, an ardent misotheist who's nowhere masochist enough to torture himself by not drinking water in late Spring and early Summer, to take a fast-by-proxy by threatening to literally give me lashes if I'm seen drinking water in public. But that's irrelevant, especially as most people here don't support it -thankfully.
Jolthig just had a way of making new topics for us to debate with. Then again, there was also Amin and his hot takes too, so idk.

That's stupidly un Islanic. There is no coercion in Islam, so I guess you could file a complaint to God...

[The Archregimancy]

<posts from Cairo>

I've just been given a massive box of biscuits from work in advance of Eid next week.

I'll have to give some of them to my driver; generous though the gift is, and lovely though it is for work to remember the Christians, I can't possibly eat this many biscuity treats!

[A m e n r i a]

<posts from Cairo>

I've just been given a massive box of biscuits from work in advance of Eid next week.

I'll have to give some of them to my driver; generous though the gift is, and lovely though it is for work to remember the Christians, I can't possibly eat this many biscuity treats!

Ramadhan and Idul Fitri are indeed strongly related to generosity and forgiveness.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

No. I mean, I could go on a rant about how Muslims are literally forcing me, an ardent misotheist who's nowhere masochist enough to torture himself by not drinking water in late Spring and early Summer, to take a fast-by-proxy by threatening to literally give me lashes if I'm seen drinking water in public. But that's irrelevant, especially as most people here don't support it -thankfully.
Jolthig just had a way of making new topics for us to debate with. Then again, there was also Amin and his hot takes too, so idk.

That's stupidly un Islanic. There is no coercion in Islam, so I guess you could file a complaint to God...

Why would you file a complaint to God when you don't believe in them? And/or you believe in them, but think they're evil?

[Samudera Darussalam]

Holy hell this thread just dies off whenever Jolthig isn't around, doesn't it.

Well, I was busy with university life, so I tend to just read whatever discussions that attract my interests whenever I have some semblance of free time.

No. I mean, I could go on a rant about how Muslims are literally forcing me, an ardent misotheist who's nowhere masochist enough to torture himself by not drinking water in late Spring and early Summer, to take a fast-by-proxy by threatening to literally give me lashes if I'm seen drinking water in public. But that's irrelevant, especially as most people here don't support it -thankfully.
Jolthig just had a way of making new topics for us to debate with. Then again, there was also Amin and his hot takes too, so idk.

I sincerely hope that you can survive the whole thing. Eid is about to come, so.....I hope the condition will improve....somehow.

<posts from Cairo>

I've just been given a massive box of biscuits from work in advance of Eid next week.

I'll have to give some of them to my driver; generous though the gift is, and lovely though it is for work to remember the Christians, I can't possibly eat this many biscuity treats!

Eh, that's a lovely spirit of Eid.

[North German Realm]

No. I mean, I could go on a rant about how Muslims are literally forcing me, an ardent misotheist who's nowhere masochist enough to torture himself by not drinking water in late Spring and early Summer, to take a fast-by-proxy by threatening to literally give me lashes if I'm seen drinking water in public. But that's irrelevant, especially as most people here don't support it -thankfully.
Jolthig just had a way of making new topics for us to debate with. Then again, there was also Amin and his hot takes too, so idk.

I sincerely hope that you can survive the whole thing. Eid is about to come, so.....I hope the condition will improve....somehow.

Eh, I've had to deal with the same conditions for all my life, it's nothing new. The only way it will improve is when we finally manage to remove Islam from Iran... or you know, remove the Islamic Republic, as that's both easier and a possible first step.

[A m e n r i a]

I sincerely hope that you can survive the whole thing. Eid is about to come, so.....I hope the condition will improve....somehow.

Eh, I've had to deal with the same conditions for all my life, it's nothing new. The only way it will improve is when we finally manage to remove Islam from Iran... or you know, remove the Islamic Republic, as that's both easier and a possible first step.

And make things worse? No, the only solution is to make it a real Islamic republic, not an "Islamic" republic.