Islamic Discussion Thread ٥: Free Tajweed, Absolutely Halaal

[Chularatchamontri]

@jolthig this video as well is good, as are some of the comments which show more proof. I am sorry that I can not find more Islamic sources in english but it is hard for me as you can imagine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hDAcHlfbK0

[Jolthig]

It's okay. It's all I wanted to ask for the contribute more to our discussion to make both of our cases stronger. Because that's how debates work, and it gets fun too.

[Chularatchamontri]

It's okay. It's all I wanted to ask for the contribute more to our discussion to make both of our cases stronger. Because that's how debates work, and it gets fun too.

Ok. I admire the way you debate in good faith, even if you are misguided on this issue and you have defended Islam very well in other areas.

[Jolthig]

I'll try to find some time to respond to every reference you put down to the best of my abilities, and debunk some of the writers you referenced. Though, I do have little time due to my plan to leave NS for Ramadan.

So I may respond to some, or just do lots of reading in Ramadan and I'll respond next month, provided that you're still around by then.

You seem new to the forums, and I've seen brothers come and go. So if you're on there long enough, inshallah I'll respond by then. If not, then maybe by this weekend.

[Jolthig]

It's okay. It's all I wanted to ask for the contribute more to our discussion to make both of our cases stronger. Because that's how debates work, and it gets fun too.

Ok. I admire the way you debate in good faith, even if you are misguided on this issue and you have defended Islam very well in other areas.

For sure.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

In which case you're going to beat two people to death for public indecency (unless they're married straighties, in which case I assume they just get normal public indecency charges?).

And when it's pointed out what the punishment entails, Amin just plugs his ears and shouts "fake news." It'd be like if I said terrorists should be shot, and then when people went "jeez that's harsh you just wanna kill them?", I replied "kill them? a bullet to the head can't kill you lol"

There's no special punishment for homosexuals. Zina is illegal sexual intercourse, and the punishment does not vary based on sexuality. Also, there are plenty of excuses that can be made on the behalf of the accused. It's possible to still make the excuse that they had become intoxicated, and weren't of sound mind when such an act was committed, thus exonerating them of such a punishment.

Why is Zina illegal? And why is the punishment lashes?

[Jolthig]

There's no special punishment for homosexuals. Zina is illegal sexual intercourse, and the punishment does not vary based on sexuality. Also, there are plenty of excuses that can be made on the behalf of the accused. It's possible to still make the excuse that they had become intoxicated, and weren't of sound mind when such an act was committed, thus exonerating them of such a punishment.

Why is Zina illegal? And why is the punishment lashes?

Because it is outside of marriage.

I'm not sure for the time that it was revealed, but my general idea is that if people were caught doing illegal sexual intercourse in public especially if 4 witness saw them; as indecent the arabs were in preislamic and to an extent, during Muhammad's time, and if they were Muslim, they had to feel the consequences of their actions. Through fear and put sense into them, they were given 100 lashes.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

Why is Zina illegal? And why is the punishment lashes?

Because it is outside of marriage.

I'm not sure for the time that it was revealed, but my general idea is that if people were caught doing illegal sexual intercourse in public especially if 4 witness saw them; as indecent the arabs were in preislamic and to an extent, during Muhammad's time, and if they were Muslim, they had to feel the consequences of their actions. Through fear and put sense into them, they were given 100 lashes.

Why is anal sex "zina?"

[Jolthig]

Because it is outside of marriage.

I'm not sure for the time that it was revealed, but my general idea is that if people were caught doing illegal sexual intercourse in public especially if 4 witness saw them; as indecent the arabs were in preislamic and to an extent, during Muhammad's time, and if they were Muslim, they had to feel the consequences of their actions. Through fear and put sense into them, they were given 100 lashes.

Why is anal sex "zina?"

Because Islam views it as unnatural. In Islam, sex is to produce the next generation of humans. It isn't simply for pleasure only.

[North German Realm]

Why is anal sex "zina?"

Because Islam views it as unnatural. In Islam, sex is to produce the next generation of humans. It isn't simply for pleasure only.

That opens a can of worms that you don't want to deal with, especially where you take into account infertile people or people who simply don't want children (but want to have sex... which is why they've married, temporarily or otherwise)

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

Why is anal sex "zina?"

Because Islam views it as unnatural. In Islam, sex is to produce the next generation of humans. It isn't simply for pleasure only.

If a man and a woman were to use contraception during sex, would Islam view that as sinful?

[Samudera Darussalam]

Because Islam views it as unnatural. In Islam, sex is to produce the next generation of humans. It isn't simply for pleasure only.

If a man and a woman were to use contraception during sex, would Islam view that as sinful?

I'll try to help answering it
There is no clear rule about contraception/birth control in Islam, as far as I'm aware, though it seems that Islam itself tends to promote procreation. Generally, it's considered as permissible (not sinful) for a man and woman to use some form of contraception during sex.

"The common method of contraception at the time of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) was coitus interruptus, thus preventing semen from entering. The Companions of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) engaged in this practice during the period of the Qur’anic revelation. Jabir (may Allah be pleased with him) said, ‘We practiced coitus interruptus during the time of Allah’s Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him) while the Qur’an was being revealed.’" (Reported by al-Bukhari and Muslim)
Source

Since Jolthig seems to own a copy of the Sahih Bukhari, maybe he can cross check this hadith.

[Jolthig]

Because Islam views it as unnatural. In Islam, sex is to produce the next generation of humans. It isn't simply for pleasure only.

If a man and a woman were to use contraception during sex, would Islam view that as sinful?

Yes.

[The Grims]

If a man and a woman were to use contraception during sex, would Islam view that as sinful?

Yes.

What should a man and a woman do if they do not have the means to support children ? Abstain ?

[Jolthig]

Yes.

What should a man and a woman do if they do not have the means to support children ? Abstain ?

No. The Islamic philosophy is that Allah will provide the means of support for the parents.

[Kowani]

What should a man and a woman do if they do not have the means to support children ? Abstain ?

No. The Islamic philosophy is that Allah will provide the means of support for the parents.

This is not based in history at all, by the way.

[Jolthig]

No. The Islamic philosophy is that Allah will provide the means of support for the parents.

This is not based in history at all, by the way.

Well I cited the Holy Quran, and I didn't specify how.

[Kowani]

This is not based in history at all, by the way.

Well I cited the Holy Quran, and I didn't specify how.

I know. I’m saying Islamic philosophy doesn’t match up with the facts.

[Jolthig]

Well I cited the Holy Quran, and I didn't specify how.

I know. I’m saying Islamic philosophy doesn’t match up with the facts.

Well, if you take out God, then Muslim couples got help from a variety of people such as the state.

[A m e n r i a]

Well I cited the Holy Quran, and I didn't specify how.

I know. I’m saying Islamic philosophy doesn’t match up with the facts.

It is facts. Imma have to disagree with contraception being wrong though. There's enough humans as is, we don't need any more people having half a dozen children. The one child policy is brilliant.

[Jolthig]

I know. I’m saying Islamic philosophy doesn’t match up with the facts.

It is facts. Imma have to disagree with contraception being wrong though. There's enough humans as is, we don't need any more people having half a dozen children. The one child policy is brilliant.

That also goes against Islam because earth has plenty of food sources to sustain humanity and that Islam encourages families to have as many as they'd like.

[A m e n r i a]

It is facts. Imma have to disagree with contraception being wrong though. There's enough humans as is, we don't need any more people having half a dozen children. The one child policy is brilliant.

That also goes against Islam because earth has plenty of food sources to sustain humanity and that Islam encourages families to have as many as they'd like.

*fundamentalist Islam

Mate, you realize how many problems come from overpopulation, right? Not only there's not enough food to go around (no thanks to capitalism), more people means more pollution, not to mention poverty and social problems. The trend of people having less children here in the East is a good one, and I hope more of our brothers can follow suit.

[The Blaatschapen]

With ramadan fast (ha) approaching. How does it work for people who live north of the pole circle during summer?

[Jolthig]

That also goes against Islam because earth has plenty of food sources to sustain humanity and that Islam encourages families to have as many as they'd like.

*fundamentalist Islam

Mate, you realize how many problems come from overpopulation, right? Not only there's not enough food to go around (no thanks to capitalism), more people means more pollution, not to mention poverty and social problems. The trend of people having less children here in the East is a good one, and I hope more of our brothers can follow suit.

No. Islam itself.

China has also had to alter its one child policy slightly to what I recall if I'm correct, people being allowed to have a son and daughter because having strictly one child itself was an issue, and Xi Jinping awknowledged that.

Please demonstrate how more people cause poverty and social problems?

[Jolthig]

With ramadan fast (ha) approaching. How does it work for people who live north of the pole circle during summer?

I suppose, they can fast as long as they feel is right?