Islamic Discussion Thread ٥: Free Tajweed, Absolutely Halaal

[Insaanistan]

I know everyone is talking about coronavirus on more relevant threads. But I'd like to know how your individual various Muslim communities are responding. Are mosques still open? Are the congregational prayers still being observed?

In most areas, mosques are closed, and in the ones that are open, many people pray far apart.

[Jolthig]

I know brothers that it's hard to be on lockdown in many countries, but look at the opportunities we have now. An expanded platform on the internet for dawah. We have more time to read as well.

[Arshanid Deccan]

Salam Brother
Out of curiosity I am asking you this as I do not know much about Ahmadiyya belief. I believe that the Mahdi will one day unify the Muslim World and act as its final Caliph and Mujaddid, I also believe that the Messiah and the Mahdi will be two different people. But Ahmadiyya believe that their founder Mirza Ghulam Ahmad is both. Also he has not done what the Prophecy say that the Mahdi and Messiah will do. Such as he never unified the Muslim World and bring its final Revival, and he never fought the Dajjal as the Messiah will. Some people have told me that according to Ahmaddiya belief the Messiah and the Mahdi will not be just one person but a succession of people and eventually they will fulfill the prophecies, is this true?

Walakium salaam. How are you, brother? Given how long my response will be, for the sake of making it easy for you & everyone else, I'll be spoiling my points.

Yes, you are correct the Mahdi will be a Mujaddid, and a Khalifa. Mirza Ghulam Ahmad claimed the mantle of both, for example, when the 14th century of Islam began in the year, 1882, he was given divine revelation that he was the Mujaddid of his time:

In his book, Barahin-e-Ahmadiyya, pt. 3, he received a divine revelation stating:

Allah has placed blessing in you, O Ahmad. Whatever you did let loose, it was not you but it was Allah Who let it loose. Allah has taught you the Qur’an so that you should warn the people whose ancestors have not been warned, and that the way of the guilty ones might become manifest. Say: I have been commissioned and I am the first of the believers.

Commentating on this revelation in his book, Kitabul-Bariyyah, he states:

When the 13th century of the Hegira came to an end and the 14th century was about to begin, Allah the Almighty, informed me through revelation that I was the Reformer of this century and I received the revelation: The Most Gracious One has taught you the Qur’an… I am the first of the believers.

In his book, Haqiqatul-Wahi, he lists two signs that testify to his truth:

Sign 1:

Abu Dawud reports that the Holy Prophet, may peace and blessings of Allah be upon him, said: ‘At the head of every century,
God will commission a Mujaddid for this ummah who will revive the Faith for its sake.’

The twenty-fourth year of the present century is now nearing its end and it is not possible that a saying of the Holy Prophet, may peace and blessings of Allah be upon him, should remain unfulfilled.

....

Moreover, it is a universally agreed tenet among the Ahl-e-Sunnat that the last Mujaddid of this ummah is the Promised Messiah, who shall appear in the Latter Days. Now, the point at issue is whether these are the Latter Days or not. Both the Jews and the Christians agree that these, indeed, are the Latter Days. You can ask them and find out if you so desire. Death is raging on, earthquakes are occurring one after the other, and all kinds of extraordinary calamities have started appearing. Are these days, then, not the Latter Days? The righteous ones of the Ummah have also designated these days as the Latter Days—and twenty-three years of the 14th century have already passed. As such, it is a strong argument to the effect that this, indeed, is the time for the Promised Messiah to appear.

I am the only person who made the claim before the beginning of this century. And, indeed, I am the only one after whose claim as many as twenty-five years have passed, and I am still alive. And I am the only one who has convicted the Christians and the people of other faiths with Signs from God. Therefore, as long as another claimant bearing the same characteristics is not produced in opposition to my claim, my own claim to be the Promised Messiah, who is the Mujaddid of the Latter Days, stands established.

....

Sign 3:

Is the appearance of a comet which was destined to appear in the time of the Promised Messiah. It has long since appeared. Its sighting prompted some English newspapers of the Christians to comment that the time of the Messiah’s advent had arrived.

The third sign refers to the Great Comet of 1882, the same year, he was declared Mujaddid of the 14th century. As a comet appeared in the sighting of the First Messiah, similarly is the case of the second Messiah.

The claim that the Messiah and Mahdi aren't two people, but one, isn't just ours alone, but in fact, Sunan Ibn Majah, narrates that there is no Mahdi, but Isa. Moreover, the Messiah would have to be a Mahdi, because a Mahdi receives guidance through revelation which Sahih Muslim tells us that the Jesus of the latter days will receive revelation (wahi) & he is called "Prophet" (Nabi) 4 times in this hadith alone.

Addressing your other points, the Messiah will not be some kind of savior that will have extraordinary powers to wipe the world clean of evil & all the Muslims will be taken to heaven all the sudden, but he will be a prophet like all the others & he will live the life like other prophets and die a natural death in accordance with Qur'an, Surah 3: Al-e-Imran, ayat, 144. So what killing the Dajjal & uniting the Ummah really mean is that the Messiah will destroy the Dajjal, which is a group of deceptive people rather than a literal one-eyed monster, through strong religious argumentation, effectively putting them in their place. As for unifying the Ummah, you must remember the Qur'an tells us there is no compulsion in religion (2:256), and it is up to the people to accept the Messiah or any prophet or not. This is testified to by the hadith that there will be 73 sects, but only sect will be saved while all the others will be in hell. That sect in the latter days would have to be the sect of the Messiah and Imam Mahdi because no one else will be saved as they will reject him as false and an apostate, God forbid.

As for the Messiah & Mahdi being a succession of people, that isn't true. Since the Messiah and Imam Mahdi have already arrived, there is the Khilafatul-Masih, where Khalifas are the second manifestation of the power of the Messiah although they aren't the Messiah himself, but just his successors as successors (Khulafa) continue the missions of past Prophets.

Hope this answers your questions.

Thank you it does answer my question.

[Negarakita]

@Jolthig, I would be interested to hear your thoughts on the book "Peshawar Nights" by Sultanul Wa'izin Shirazi. There's a free pdf of it online.

It outlines a large amount of arguments for Shi'ism in a very concise and well-explained volume, and I'm finding it relatively convincing.

[Jolthig]

@Jolthig, I would be interested to hear your thoughts on the book "Peshawar Nights" by Sultanul Wa'izin Shirazi. There's a free pdf of it online.

It outlines a large amount of arguments for Shi'ism in a very concise and well-explained volume, and I'm finding it relatively convincing.

Send it over. I'll check it out.

Personally given my observations of you, you should read the literature of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad. You'll find him to be divinely inspired if you study the way he writes his texts. I don't know if I told you, but I'd recommend Philosophy of the Teachings of Islam. I believe I have it in my factbook.

[Jolthig]

Walakium salaam. How are you, brother? Given how long my response will be, for the sake of making it easy for you & everyone else, I'll be spoiling my points.

Yes, you are correct the Mahdi will be a Mujaddid, and a Khalifa. Mirza Ghulam Ahmad claimed the mantle of both, for example, when the 14th century of Islam began in the year, 1882, he was given divine revelation that he was the Mujaddid of his time:

In his book, Barahin-e-Ahmadiyya, pt. 3, he received a divine revelation stating:



Commentating on this revelation in his book, Kitabul-Bariyyah, he states:



In his book, Haqiqatul-Wahi, he lists two signs that testify to his truth:



The third sign refers to the Great Comet of 1882, the same year, he was declared Mujaddid of the 14th century. As a comet appeared in the sighting of the First Messiah, similarly is the case of the second Messiah.

The claim that the Messiah and Mahdi aren't two people, but one, isn't just ours alone, but in fact, Sunan Ibn Majah, narrates that there is no Mahdi, but Isa. Moreover, the Messiah would have to be a Mahdi, because a Mahdi receives guidance through revelation which Sahih Muslim tells us that the Jesus of the latter days will receive revelation (wahi) & he is called "Prophet" (Nabi) 4 times in this hadith alone.

Addressing your other points, the Messiah will not be some kind of savior that will have extraordinary powers to wipe the world clean of evil & all the Muslims will be taken to heaven all the sudden, but he will be a prophet like all the others & he will live the life like other prophets and die a natural death in accordance with Qur'an, Surah 3: Al-e-Imran, ayat, 144. So what killing the Dajjal & uniting the Ummah really mean is that the Messiah will destroy the Dajjal, which is a group of deceptive people rather than a literal one-eyed monster, through strong religious argumentation, effectively putting them in their place. As for unifying the Ummah, you must remember the Qur'an tells us there is no compulsion in religion (2:256), and it is up to the people to accept the Messiah or any prophet or not. This is testified to by the hadith that there will be 73 sects, but only sect will be saved while all the others will be in hell. That sect in the latter days would have to be the sect of the Messiah and Imam Mahdi because no one else will be saved as they will reject him as false and an apostate, God forbid.

As for the Messiah & Mahdi being a succession of people, that isn't true. Since the Messiah and Imam Mahdi have already arrived, there is the Khilafatul-Masih, where Khalifas are the second manifestation of the power of the Messiah although they aren't the Messiah himself, but just his successors as successors (Khulafa) continue the missions of past Prophets.

Hope this answers your questions.

Thank you it does answer my question.

I am very happy. May Allah guide us both to the truth. Ameen.

[Negarakita]

@Jolthig, I would be interested to hear your thoughts on the book "Peshawar Nights" by Sultanul Wa'izin Shirazi. There's a free pdf of it online.

It outlines a large amount of arguments for Shi'ism in a very concise and well-explained volume, and I'm finding it relatively convincing.

Send it over. I'll check it out.

Personally given my observations of you, you should read the literature of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad. You'll find him to be divinely inspired if you study the way he writes his texts. I don't know if I told you, but I'd recommend Philosophy of the Teachings of Islam. I believe I have it in my factbook.

I have it, its on my list of books I aim to read.

http://islamicmobility.com/pdf/PESHAWAR ... rt%201.pdf

[A m e n r i a]

Quarantine ❎
Qur'antime ☑️

I know everyone is talking about coronavirus on more relevant threads. But I'd like to know how your individual various Muslim communities are responding. Are mosques still open? Are the congregational prayers still being observed?

In most areas, mosques are closed, and in the ones that are open, many people pray far apart.

Mosques in Bandung are closed afaik.

[Samudera Darussalam]

Quarantine ❎
Qur'antime ☑️

In most areas, mosques are closed, and in the ones that are open, many people pray far apart.

Mosques in Bandung are closed afaik.

1. Nice pun
2. Are you really spending the spare time reading the Qur'an?
3. While I have no doubt that some, if not many mosques in the city of Surabaya are closed, the ones in the suburbs where I live in are not, judging by the adhan. No doubt that only a tiny portion of Muslims go to those mosques though.

[Jolthig]

Quarantine ❎
Qur'antime ☑️

One hundred percent.

[Jolthig]

Send it over. I'll check it out.

Personally given my observations of you, you should read the literature of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad. You'll find him to be divinely inspired if you study the way he writes his texts. I don't know if I told you, but I'd recommend Philosophy of the Teachings of Islam. I believe I have it in my factbook.

I have it, its on my list of books I aim to read.

http://islamicmobility.com/pdf/PESHAWAR ... rt%201.pdf

Thanks brother

[Jolthig]

Assalaam o alakium wa rahmatullah wa barakatu, afwaan. I hope & pray all of you are doing well. Alhamdulilah. Another day to be grateful to Allah for what he has given us.

[Negarakita]

Assalaam o alakium wa rahmatullah wa barakatu, afwaan. I hope & pray all of you are doing well. Alhamdulilah. Another day to be grateful to Allah for what he has given us.

I am doing well brother, preparing stuff for uni and generally sorting stuff put since everything had to change cos of the virus

[Jolthig]

https://twitter.com/DamonStengel1/statu ... 59049?s=19

Made a new Twitter thread about the signs of the founder of Ahmadiyya. Check it out, guys.

[Insaanistan]

If they have the capability to be aware of God’s existence but still not accept Islam, why don’t they meet the same fate as the deists, which is hell.

I thought all monotheists have the chance to be saved in islam?

All good people in general go to heaven.

[A m e n r i a]

I thought all monotheists have the chance to be saved in islam?

All good people in general go to heaven.

Which reminds me about one thing I have been thinking about. Aliens. Did God ever send a prophet to their planets? If so, is it safe to say they're Muslims? Or are they following a different religion that's just as righteous? If not, then that's not fair, is it?

[Saranidia]

All good people in general go to heaven.

Which reminds me about one thing I have been thinking about. Aliens. Did God ever send a prophet to their planets? If so, is it safe to say they're Muslims? Or are they following a different religion that's just as righteous? If not, then that's not fair, is it?

God sent a prophet to every nation,
Some mentioned in the Quran, some completely forgotten.
If sentient aliens exist Allah would send a prophet "in the language of their own folk."

[Saranidia]

This Ramadan my only NS nations I will use will be my
Muslim ones

[A m e n r i a]

Which reminds me about one thing I have been thinking about. Aliens. Did God ever send a prophet to their planets? If so, is it safe to say they're Muslims? Or are they following a different religion that's just as righteous? If not, then that's not fair, is it?

God sent a prophet to every nation,
Some mentioned in the Quran, some completely forgotten.
If sentient aliens exist Allah would send a prophet "in the language of their own folk."

That might only apply to Earth, we don't know. Even so, whatever versions of Islam they follow (if we can even call them Islam) would be more different than ours the more different their physiologies are to ours. I don't think squid people would perform shalat the way we do.

Also, happy Ramadhan, may you complete your fasts well.

[Saranidia]

God sent a prophet to every nation,
Some mentioned in the Quran, some completely forgotten.
If sentient aliens exist Allah would send a prophet "in the language of their own folk."

That might only apply to Earth, we don't know. Even so, whatever versions of Islam they follow (if we can even call them Islam) would be more different than ours the more different their physiologies are to ours. I don't think squid people would perform shalat the way we do.

Also, happy Ramadhan, may you complete your fasts well.

Thank you

[Samudera Darussalam]

Ramadan Mubarak guys. Stay strong eventhough we are going to fast while a pandemic is running amok

May our fast and good deeds be accepted by Allah SWT during this blessed month.

[Jolthig]

Khair Mubarak.

I won't be doing my usual social media fast as since now I am an office holder within my Jammat and I am an example to others for dawah. Instead, I'll avoid fighting people Insha'Allah and just focusing on preaching. Insha'Allah

[Jolthig]

We should do a lot of interaction amongst ourselves this Ramdan. Try to talk about our experiences. I know for me I get a lot of great experiences that month.

[Insaanistan]

Okay so serious question:

Any ideas y'all have on proposing marriage to my girlfriend? There is no guardian, to speak, as her father has passed on and her mother is in prison. We have been in a relationship for the past 8 years. We've been living together for the past four of those years. She is a Catholic, a devout young soul. I am an Ahmadi Muslim, and I intend to be her soulmate, through life and through death.

A few months ago I'd be unwilling to ask such a question due to the presence of certain individuals... But now I don't have to worry about that.

Yes, dating (in the western sense) isn't considered normal or acceptable by most Muslims. I concede that. I believe however that I have found the person who I intend to spend the rest of my life with. Our 9th anniversary of our relationship is coming up on December 21. I plan to propose to her sometime in July of 2020. Any suggestions about how to go about it? I've already come up with a place... I'm just apprehensive about going through with it.

So brother, are you still going through with it?

[Negarakita]

While we haven't started yet (tomorrow for us, one more day of snacking ), I'm really looking forwards to ramadan again. Last year I found it was a high point in my Iman. And anyway I'm so far south I have less than 12 hours each day so its not that bad...