Islamic Discussion Thread ٥: Free Tajweed, Absolutely Halaal

[Al Mumtahanah]

If China’s Communist, North Korea’s democratic.

The government is communist never mind that the rest of the society is capitalist af.

Anyways, I've been thinking about extinction. Sure, in the case of dinosaurs, it was God's will, but since we came around we've caused a lot of extinctions on the planet. Who do you guys think will be judged for such a sin? All of humanity or just the greedy ones?

There is no evidence of Allah (swt) judging all of humanity, just particular peoples. Even the Deluge judging by the pattern was very probably not global, just judgement of a particular people.

[Al Mumtahanah]

The government is communist never mind that the rest of the society is capitalist af.

Anyways, I've been thinking about extinction. Sure, in the case of dinosaurs, it was God's will, but since we came around we've caused a lot of extinctions on the planet. Who do you guys think will be judged for such a sin? All of humanity or just the greedy ones?

From a theistic perspective, extinctions make no sense.

Hoe does it not?

[Kowani]

From a theistic perspective, extinctions make no sense.

Hoe does it not?

Before I ask that, a question. In Islam, can animals sin?

[A m e n r i a]

The government is communist never mind that the rest of the society is capitalist af.

Anyways, I've been thinking about extinction. Sure, in the case of dinosaurs, it was God's will, but since we came around we've caused a lot of extinctions on the planet. Who do you guys think will be judged for such a sin? All of humanity or just the greedy ones?

From a theistic perspective, extinctions make no sense.

Why?

[Kowani]

]

From a theistic perspective, extinctions make no sense.

Why?

Hoe does it not?

Before I ask that, a question. In Islam, can animals sin?[/quote

[Al Mumtahanah]

Hoe does it not?

Before I ask that, a question. In Islam, can animals sin?

Maturidis would say no, some Asharis would say yes.

[Kowani]

Before I ask that, a question. In Islam, can animals sin?

Maturidis would say no, some Asharis would say yes.

And you are…?

[Al Mumtahanah]

Maturidis would say no, some Asharis would say yes.

And you are…?

Ashari but I am unsure if animals can sin.

[Kowani]

And you are…?

Ashari but I am unsure if animals can sin.

Let’s assume that they can’t, just for the sake of argument.

God (who knows everything, by the way), created a species that committed no crime, just for the end goal of killing it off, forever. Nobody was benefited from it, no other species of animal was benefited by it-It’s death for death’s sake.

[A m e n r i a]

Hoe does it not?

Before I ask that, a question. In Islam, can animals sin?

I meant humans sin by causing entire species to die out, not the animals. I'm on the "animals are innocent" team.

[Kowani]

Before I ask that, a question. In Islam, can animals sin?

I meant humans sin by causing entire species to die out, not the animals. I'm on the "animals are innocent" team.

Yes, I’m speaking of the 4 extinction events that predate humans.

[Al Mumtahanah]

Ashari but I am unsure if animals can sin.

Let’s assume that they can’t, just for the sake of argument.

God (who knows everything, by the way), created a species that committed no crime, just for the end goal of killing it off, forever. Nobody was benefited from it, no other species of animal was benefited by it-It’s death for death’s sake.

So? He kills off all life, death is part of life and the natural cycle, not a punishmemt innately just because it can be used as one.

[Jolthig]

As animals don't have free will like humans, no they cannot really "sin". Their "morals" are simply their instincts.

[Kowani]

Let’s assume that they can’t, just for the sake of argument.

God (who knows everything, by the way), created a species that committed no crime, just for the end goal of killing it off, forever. Nobody was benefited from it, no other species of animal was benefited by it-It’s death for death’s sake.

So? He kills off all life, death is part of life amd the natural cycle, not a punishmemt innately just because it can be used as one.

Extinctions are, by definition, a violation of the natural cycle-or evidence of a very poorly designed one.

[Al Mumtahanah]

As animals don't have free will like humans, no they cannot really "sin". Their "morals" are simply their instincts.

Most Muslims subscribe to Ashari aqidah, which rejects free will altogether in the conventional sense.

[Al Mumtahanah]

So? He kills off all life, death is part of life amd the natural cycle, not a punishmemt innately just because it can be used as one.

Extinctions are, by definition, a violation of the natural cycle-or evidence of a very poorly designed one.

No more than death is. I think something like 99% of species to ever live have gone extinct.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

So? He kills off all life, death is part of life amd the natural cycle, not a punishmemt innately just because it can be used as one.

Extinctions are, by definition, a violation of the natural cycle-or evidence of a very poorly designed one.

Who's calling it poorly designed? And considering how often (in geological/evolutionary terms anyways) it happened, I'd say it's part of the natural cycle. It's even beneficial for some animals.

[Kowani]

Extinctions are, by definition, a violation of the natural cycle-or evidence of a very poorly designed one.

No more than death is. I think something like 99% of species to ever live have gone extinct.

A strike against Allah.

Extinctions are, by definition, a violation of the natural cycle-or evidence of a very poorly designed one.

Who's calling it poorly designed?

Right now, me.

And considering how often (in geological/evolutionary terms anyways) it happened, I'd say it's part of the natural cycle.

Like I said, a poorly designed one.

It's even beneficial for some animals.

Those that survive. Which, looking at statistics, is a terrible mark for Allah.

[Jolthig]

No more than death is. I think something like 99% of species to ever live have gone extinct.

A strike against Allah.

Who's calling it poorly designed?

Right now, me.

And considering how often (in geological/evolutionary terms anyways) it happened, I'd say it's part of the natural cycle.

Like I said, a poorly designed one.

It's even beneficial for some animals.

Those that survive. Which, looking at statistics, is a terrible mark for Allah.

I mean, there aren't really "statistics" per say when it comes to ancient animals as there weren't really any surveyors to record the amount of deaths unless if they got killed too in the events.

[Jolthig]

As animals don't have free will like humans, no they cannot really "sin". Their "morals" are simply their instincts.

Most Muslims subscribe to Ashari aqidah, which rejects free will altogether in the conventional sense.

On animals?

[Al Mumtahanah]

Most Muslims subscribe to Ashari aqidah, which rejects free will altogether in the conventional sense.

On animals?

Humans and jinn as well

[Al Mumtahanah]

No more than death is. I think something like 99% of species to ever live have gone extinct.

A strike against Allah.

Who's calling it poorly designed?

Right now, me.

And considering how often (in geological/evolutionary terms anyways) it happened, I'd say it's part of the natural cycle.

Like I said, a poorly designed one.

It's even beneficial for some animals.

Those that survive. Which, looking at statistics, is a terrible mark for Allah.

Zero animals survive ultimately, how is this an issue? An animal becoming food or compost for another animal does not cease to benefit benefitted parties just because they are mortal. Different eco systems adapted to different climates and conditions making way for each other due to extinction does not mean benefitted parties are not benefitted.

[A m e n r i a]

A strike against Allah.


Right now, me.
Like I said, a poorly designed one.

Those that survive. Which, looking at statistics, is a terrible mark for Allah.

Zero animals survive ultimately, how is this an issue? An animal becoming food or compost for another animal does not cease to benefit benefitted parties just because they are mortal. Different eco systems adapted to different climates and conditions making way for each other due to extinction does not mean benefitted parties are not benefitted.

That and the fact that creatures change over the millennia, humans included. If God wanted to keep us as huge as Adam was, He would. He just figured there'd be no space since we breed like crazy. There's probably more reasons we don't know yet.

[Kowani]

A strike against Allah.


Right now, me.
Like I said, a poorly designed one.

Those that survive. Which, looking at statistics, is a terrible mark for Allah.

I mean, there aren't really "statistics" per say when it comes to ancient animals as there weren't really any surveyors to record the amount of deaths unless if they got killed too in the events.

99%

A strike against Allah.


Right now, me.
Like I said, a poorly designed one.

Those that survive. Which, looking at statistics, is a terrible mark for Allah.

Zero animals survive ultimately, how is this an issue?

Why be born, if only to die? Of humans are the pinnacle of creation, why not start there? Why have millions of years of previous species who served no purpose but to die?

An animal becoming food or compost for another animal does not cease to benefit benefitted parties just because they are mortal. Different eco systems adapted to different climates and conditions making way for each other due to extinction does not mean benefitted parties are not benefitted.

A 1% “success” rate is not a good ratio.

[Al Mumtahanah]

I mean, there aren't really "statistics" per say when it comes to ancient animals as there weren't really any surveyors to record the amount of deaths unless if they got killed too in the events.

99%

Zero animals survive ultimately, how is this an issue?

Why be born, if only to die? Of humans are the pinnacle of creation, why not start there? Why have millions of years of previous species who served no purpose but to die?

An animal becoming food or compost for another animal does not cease to benefit benefitted parties just because they are mortal. Different eco systems adapted to different climates and conditions making way for each other due to extinction does not mean benefitted parties are not benefitted.

A 1% “success” rate is not a good ratio.

What do you mean if only to die? Animals have immortal souls and worship Allah (may He be glorified and exalted) and even bring charges against humans who wronged them when judgement comes due. They have their own peoples, their own stories, their own dramas, same as us.

Success is not defined by indefinate life.