Islamic Discussion Thread ٥: Free Tajweed, Absolutely Halaal

[El-Amin Caliphate]

https://legacy.quran.com/2/219
https://legacy.quran.com/5/90
https://legacy.quran.com/5/91
https://sunnah.com/nasai/51/160

Buck it says in the Koran "Dont get drunk.".

Can you show me pls? Also do you only get your Deen from the Holy Qur'an?

And my father has never in his life gotten drunk. He lived in Saudi Arabia for 10+ years, so yeah, no drinks. Nothing.

Wait, so he hasn't been drinking?

[Imbalistan]

Buck it says in the Koran "Dont get drunk.".

Can you show me pls? Also do you only get your Deen from the Holy Qur'an?

And my father has never in his life gotten drunk. He lived in Saudi Arabia for 10+ years, so yeah, no drinks. Nothing.

Wait, so he hasn't been drinking?

Let me explain something to you. There is a difference between getting drunk and drinking. If you drink 1 can of beer, okay fine, you may disagree with that, but, your most likely not drunk. Drink 2 or more, yeah, your drunk.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Can you show me pls? Also do you only get your Deen from the Holy Qur'an?

Wait, so he hasn't been drinking?

Let me explain something to you. There is a difference between getting drunk and drinking. If you drink 1 can of beer, okay fine, you may disagree with that, but, your most likely not drunk. Drink 2 or more, yeah, your drunk.

That doesn't really answer any of my questions.

[Starblaydia]

My dad is sinning? I dont think so.

https://legacy.quran.com/2/219
https://legacy.quran.com/5/90
https://legacy.quran.com/5/91
https://sunnah.com/nasai/51/160

El-Amin, you have already been unofficially warned for spamming links instead of making arguments in your own words. Consider this to be a second friendly warning before further action is taken. Stop doing it.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

A thorough sifting through my post history shows me and many other Muslims debunking claims of marital rape. If people don't falsely accuse you of supporting rape that'd be some dark humorous comedic irony.

OK. Let me make this clear: Islam's standards on sexual consent are fair and reasonable in the context of a marital relationship, at least considering the amount of knowledge available at the time of the relevant hadiths. I have qualms with the phrasing, but it looks like at least an attempt at a reasonable solution to the fact that 1) people getting married have presumably consented to have sex with each other, and so it is reasonable to presume consent in such a case and 2) marital rape still exists.
The problem comes with the application of the same standards to slaves. Slaves have not chosen to be slaves, let alone slaves owned by a particular master.

Thank you for at least understanding. That's all I wanted.
As for slaves, well yes, no one wants to be a slave unless it's towards Allah SWT, hence why He made it better to free slaves than to own them. Now I don't know the authenticity of this, but some Muslim Islamic scholars say that a master marrying a slave makes said slave a freeperson. What is authentic is that a slave woman having a child with her master makes her and the child free, because in Al-Islam, slavery is not inherited. This also means that children of slaves cannot be enslaved, because Prophet Muhammad SAWS forbade and spoke against that (can't find the Hadith but it's SaHeeH [authenticated]). As for sexual relations with slaves, yes, this is possible without any wrongdoing against the master, or it would not have been Halaal. People talk about the power imbalance, but Allah SWT tells us to be good towards everyone, including "those whom your right hands possess" - meaning slaves. Obviously, raping slaves is not "doing good" to them as you cause physical and psychological harm on them. And even with the supposed power imbalance, if the slave feels that the master is using his/her power to coerce the slave into sex, the slave can and should contact the authorities (as has happened in the time of Prophet Muhammad SAWS, and in the case of a castrated slave).

So no, rape of any human being whatsoever is a Haraam practice and a disgusting act. It falls under the punishment of zina - illegal sexual intercourse - which is punishable under Shari'ah by 100 lashes. Yes, it is possible to have sexual relations with one's slave and not cause harm to them as I explained above. Yes, I am ok with this, even it is recommended to free slaves in the 1st place, something I support even more.

[Ard al Islam]

Islam is perfect.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Islam is perfect.

Well duh

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Never in any of my posts have I referenced ISIS as an example of how Islamic slavery should be practiced, or of anything in Al-Islam. You must've not read anything I said either.

It is the logical end result of what you preach, however—the same dehumanisation, the same belief what they are doing is a genuinely pious thing.

I have, and am probably the only, one to have read your long list of links and watched your videos—ironically preached by a man wearing a suit and tie and a taqiyah, the very essence of a westernised Islam—and what I can say is that: teach-yourself-islam-online.com has left you disconnected from the actual sunnah and ummah: have you tried talking about this thing you are so passionate about with your parents, your local iman or nearest mosque and seen their reaction to speaking such nonsense?

One would have thought that the notion that humans are imperfect and liable to failure would have been impressed into your Islamic education, but you persist in thinking, and that any such practises which rely on a perfect ideal are unlikely to result in a perfect reality. For all your Salafist tendencies, how was it that the ummah was led away from the shariah of 'Rashidun' in the first place? During which, it might be noted, there were already visible the problems that were so soon to cleave the Islamic world apart in times hereafter into conflict. And if the companions of the Prophet himself were unable to stop this, what makes it likely that you, a person of more fallible times, can revive this successfully? What has kept the Islamic world from following shariah 'properly' this whole time if it were as simple as doing the right thing?

You don't seem to grasp this fundamental distinction between the theoretical and the practical, that something you might hope for will in fact not be as you say in reality. This is why people are so critical of your ideas of slavery, women etc., because these same words have been used to defend historically what were abominable things and were abused. This is an empirical, not theoretical observation, and so is sounder than any hadith you can ever provide. Its rather like pointing out that murder is a major sin, and therefore there won't be any murders in an Islamic society, ignoring that that there were even in the times you most idolize. As you are unfamiliar with Islamic history, I ask, why is it that Pakistan—a nation created by people with almost identical purpose to you and indeed the origin of many of your ideals—has not become a utopia since its founding?

1: It's "imaam/imam" not "iman". That's 2 different words
2: I don't have Salafi leanings
3: I never said anything would be perfect
4: I don't know a lot about Pakistan so I can't say
5: No, I haven't really talked to anybody irl about this
6: There is no western and eastern Islam
7: Can you show how I am away from the Sunnah?
8: The logical result of doing anything in Al-Islam correctly is being rightly guided, not something perverted from the religion

[Khataiy]

It is the logical end result of what you preach, however—the same dehumanisation, the same belief what they are doing is a genuinely pious thing.

I have, and am probably the only, one to have read your long list of links and watched your videos—ironically preached by a man wearing a suit and tie and a taqiyah, the very essence of a westernised Islam—and what I can say is that: teach-yourself-islam-online.com has left you disconnected from the actual sunnah and ummah: have you tried talking about this thing you are so passionate about with your parents, your local iman or nearest mosque and seen their reaction to speaking such nonsense?

One would have thought that the notion that humans are imperfect and liable to failure would have been impressed into your Islamic education, but you persist in thinking, and that any such practises which rely on a perfect ideal are unlikely to result in a perfect reality. For all your Salafist tendencies, how was it that the ummah was led away from the shariah of 'Rashidun' in the first place? During which, it might be noted, there were already visible the problems that were so soon to cleave the Islamic world apart in times hereafter into conflict. And if the companions of the Prophet himself were unable to stop this, what makes it likely that you, a person of more fallible times, can revive this successfully? What has kept the Islamic world from following shariah 'properly' this whole time if it were as simple as doing the right thing?

You don't seem to grasp this fundamental distinction between the theoretical and the practical, that something you might hope for will in fact not be as you say in reality. This is why people are so critical of your ideas of slavery, women etc., because these same words have been used to defend historically what were abominable things and were abused. This is an empirical, not theoretical observation, and so is sounder than any hadith you can ever provide. Its rather like pointing out that murder is a major sin, and therefore there won't be any murders in an Islamic society, ignoring that that there were even in the times you most idolize. As you are unfamiliar with Islamic history, I ask, why is it that Pakistan—a nation created by people with almost identical purpose to you and indeed the origin of many of your ideals—has not become a utopia since its founding?

1: It's "imaam/imam" not "iman". That's 2 different words
2: I don't have Salafi leanings
3: I never said anything would be perfect
4: I don't know a lot about Pakistan so I can't say
5: No, I haven't really talked to anybody irl about this
6: There is no western and eastern Islam
7: Can you show how I am away from the Sunnah?
8: The logical result of doing anything in Al-Islam correctly is being rightly guided, not something perverted from the religion

"One would have thought that the notion that humans are imperfect and liable to failure would have been impressed into your Islamic education, but you persist in thinking, and that any such practises which rely on a perfect ideal are unlikely to result in a perfect reality. For all your Salafist tendencies, how was it that the ummah was led away from the shariah of 'Rashidun' in the first place? During which, it might be noted, there were already visible the problems that were so soon to cleave the Islamic world apart in times hereafter into conflict. And if the companions of the Prophet himself were unable to stop this, what makes it likely that you, a person of more fallible times, can revive this successfully? What has kept the Islamic world from following shariah 'properly' this whole time if it were as simple as doing the right thing?"

Even though the Sahaba and the Salaf were the best of humanity, they were exactly that, humans not angles or perfect they were prone to mistakes and error just as anyone else, the Prophet (SAWS) was perfect in morals and character but not in a physical sense he was once asked for advise regarding agriculture and the advice he gave wasn't useful and he explained it was because he wasn't an expert on the topic and he himself was imperfect in this regard.

In Islam emphasis is put on oneself, evidence for this is found in both the Quran and Hadiths in which it is said no one may intercede for another on the day of judgement, this means you alone are responsible for yourself you will not be collectively punished/judged by Allah and the day of judgement is the only day that matters, though Allah does promise the replace a group of people if they disobey him and fail him, but that is only in this life and not the day of judgement.

"You don't seem to grasp this fundamental distinction between the theoretical and the practical, that something you might hope for will in fact not be as you say in reality. This is why people are so critical of your ideas of slavery, women etc., because these same words have been used to defend historically what were abominable things and were abused. This is an empirical, not theoretical observation, and so is sounder than any hadith you can ever provide. Its rather like pointing out that murder is a major sin, and therefore there won't be any murders in an Islamic society, ignoring that that there were even in the times you most idolize. As you are unfamiliar with Islamic history, I ask, why is it that Pakistan—a nation created by people with almost identical purpose to you and indeed the origin of many of your ideals—has not become a utopia since its founding?"

Murders will exist as long as there is humanity even in the most perfect and just of Islamic States this is why Allah has given us rules regarding how to deal with such people, Pakistan is irrelevant in any discussion relating to Islamic governance or values.

I have, and am probably the only, one to have read your long list of links and watched your videos—ironically preached by a man wearing a suit and tie and a taqiyah, the very essence of a westernised Islam—and what I can say is that: teach-yourself-islam-online.com has left you disconnected from the actual sunnah and ummah: have you tried talking about this thing you are so passionate about with your parents, your local iman or nearest mosque and seen their reaction to speaking such nonsense?

More irrelevant nonsense Islam is Islam either you follow it correctly or not and only Allah knows best who is on the path of Haqq and the path of Batil the only thing you can do is try your best with the resources you have, it is definitely possible for the Shuyukh to be corrupt and ignorant themselves and follow distorted beliefs and for the laymen to be better, for numerous reasons with the biggest one being intent, it is better for the layman to do his best to serve Allah and call others to Islam than it is to be the most knowledgeable Sheikh and call people to falsehood and saying what is Halal is Haram and what is Haram is Halal, and try to alter our religion for PR reasons or appease modern understandings of things, as Islam is timeless and perfect and needs no 'help' or alteration of understanding and the people who have done this are the people whom Allah has condemned promising to replace them whether they are from the Khawarij, the Mutazilia, or the Murjiah it doesn't matter how learned this person is or their source of knowledge is, as Allah will guide whom he wills and whom Allah has guided can never be misguided and whom Allah has led astray will remain astray as they have disease in their hearts, and as stated Allah knows best in all affairs.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

1: It's "imaam/imam" not "iman". That's 2 different words
2: I don't have Salafi leanings
3: I never said anything would be perfect
4: I don't know a lot about Pakistan so I can't say
5: No, I haven't really talked to anybody irl about this
6: There is no western and eastern Islam
7: Can you show how I am away from the Sunnah?
8: The logical result of doing anything in Al-Islam correctly is being rightly guided, not something perverted from the religion

"One would have thought that the notion that humans are imperfect and liable to failure would have been impressed into your Islamic education, but you persist in thinking, and that any such practises which rely on a perfect ideal are unlikely to result in a perfect reality. For all your Salafist tendencies, how was it that the ummah was led away from the shariah of 'Rashidun' in the first place? During which, it might be noted, there were already visible the problems that were so soon to cleave the Islamic world apart in times hereafter into conflict. And if the companions of the Prophet himself were unable to stop this, what makes it likely that you, a person of more fallible times, can revive this successfully? What has kept the Islamic world from following shariah 'properly' this whole time if it were as simple as doing the right thing?"

Even though the Sahaba and the Salaf were the best of humanity, they were exactly that, humans not angles or perfect they were prone to mistakes and error just as anyone else, the Prophet (SAWS) was perfect in morals and character but not in a physical sense he was once asked for advise regarding agriculture and the advice he gave wasn't useful and he explained it was because he wasn't an expert on the topic and he himself was imperfect in this regard.

In Islam emphasis is put on oneself, evidence for this is found in both the Quran and Hadiths in which it is said no one may intercede for another on the day of judgement, this means you alone are responsible for yourself you will not be collectively punished/judged by Allah and the day of judgement is the only day that matters, though Allah does promise the replace a group of people if they disobey him and fail him, but that is only in this life and not the day of judgement.

"You don't seem to grasp this fundamental distinction between the theoretical and the practical, that something you might hope for will in fact not be as you say in reality. This is why people are so critical of your ideas of slavery, women etc., because these same words have been used to defend historically what were abominable things and were abused. This is an empirical, not theoretical observation, and so is sounder than any hadith you can ever provide. Its rather like pointing out that murder is a major sin, and therefore there won't be any murders in an Islamic society, ignoring that that there were even in the times you most idolize. As you are unfamiliar with Islamic history, I ask, why is it that Pakistan—a nation created by people with almost identical purpose to you and indeed the origin of many of your ideals—has not become a utopia since its founding?"

Murders will exist as long as there is humanity even in the most perfect and just of Islamic States this is why Allah has given us rules regarding how to deal with such people, Pakistan is irrelevant in any discussion relating to Islamic governance or values.

I have, and am probably the only, one to have read your long list of links and watched your videos—ironically preached by a man wearing a suit and tie and a taqiyah, the very essence of a westernised Islam—and what I can say is that: teach-yourself-islam-online.com has left you disconnected from the actual sunnah and ummah: have you tried talking about this thing you are so passionate about with your parents, your local iman or nearest mosque and seen their reaction to speaking such nonsense?

More irrelevant nonsense Islam is Islam either you follow it correctly or not and only Allah knows best who is on the path of Haqq and the path of Batil the only thing you can do is try your best with the resources you have, it is definitely possible for the Shuyukh to be corrupt and ignorant themselves and follow distorted beliefs and for the laymen to be better, for numerous reasons with the biggest one being intent, it is better for the layman to do his best to serve Allah and call others to Islam than it is to be the most knowledgeable Sheikh and call people to falsehood and saying what is Halal is Haram and what is Haram is Halal, and try to alter our religion for PR reasons or appease modern understandings of things, as Islam is timeless and perfect and needs no 'help' or alteration of understanding and the people who have done this are the people whom Allah has condemned promising to replace them whether they are from the Khawarij, the Mutazilia, or the Murjiah it doesn't matter how learned this person is or their source of knowledge is, as Allah will guide whom he wills and whom Allah has guided can never be misguided and whom Allah has led astray will remain astray as they have disease in their hearts, and as stated Allah knows best in all affairs.

Jazakallah Khairan Habeebi

[Khataiy]

Can you show me pls? Also do you only get your Deen from the Holy Qur'an?

Wait, so he hasn't been drinking?

Let me explain something to you. There is a difference between getting drunk and drinking. If you drink 1 can of beer, okay fine, you may disagree with that, but, your most likely not drunk. Drink 2 or more, yeah, your drunk.

"They question thee about strong drinks and games of chance. Say: In both is great sin, and (some) utility for men; but the sin of them is greater than their usefulness." - 2:219

'Abdullah ibn 'Umar reported Allah's Messenger as saying, "If anyone drinks wine God will not accept prayer from him for forty days, but if he repents God will forgive him. If he repeats the offence God will not accept prayer from him for forty days, but if he repents God will forgive him. If he again repeats the offence God will not accept prayer from him for forty days, but if he repents God will forgive him. If he repeats it a fourth time God will not accept prayer from him for forty days, and if he repents God will not forgive him, but will give him to drink of the river of the fluid flowing from the inhabitants of Hell." - At-Tirmidhi

Ibn 'Umar reported Allah's Messenger as saying, "There are three to whom God has forbidden Paradise; one who is addicted to wine, an undutiful son, and a cuckold who agrees to his women-folk's adultery." - Musnad Ahmed and An-Nasa'i

"He who dies and has not abstained from drinking, Allah will make him drink from the river of Al-Ghota (a river flowing from the sex organs of the prostitutes). The people of Hell will be perturbed by the nasty smell from the sex organs of the prostitutes." - Musnad Ahmed

Abu Hurairah narrates that the Prophet said, "The drinker of wine is like the worshipper of idols." - Ibn Majah

The companion Nuayman RA was known to have issues with alcohol. Despite knowing the ruling of Islam towards the intoxicating drink, Nuayman RA struggled with breaking his addiction, and was flogged twice for drinking. Upon the second flogging, Umar Ibn Khattab RA who was angered by Nuayman’s RA behaviour quipped, “La ‘nat Allah alayhi – may God’s curse be on him”.

Alcohol is haram not even a drop of it is permissible for a Muslim, it is not from the Aqeedah of the Muslims to make Takfeer on the person who drinks but only to make Takfeer on the ones who say alcohol is not Haram, simply drinking is not a nullification of Islam but to say it is halal is an act of disbelief [to say what is Haram is Halal, and what is Halal is Haram].

[Khataiy]

"One would have thought that the notion that humans are imperfect and liable to failure would have been impressed into your Islamic education, but you persist in thinking, and that any such practises which rely on a perfect ideal are unlikely to result in a perfect reality. For all your Salafist tendencies, how was it that the ummah was led away from the shariah of 'Rashidun' in the first place? During which, it might be noted, there were already visible the problems that were so soon to cleave the Islamic world apart in times hereafter into conflict. And if the companions of the Prophet himself were unable to stop this, what makes it likely that you, a person of more fallible times, can revive this successfully? What has kept the Islamic world from following shariah 'properly' this whole time if it were as simple as doing the right thing?"

Even though the Sahaba and the Salaf were the best of humanity, they were exactly that, humans not angles or perfect they were prone to mistakes and error just as anyone else, the Prophet (SAWS) was perfect in morals and character but not in a physical sense he was once asked for advise regarding agriculture and the advice he gave wasn't useful and he explained it was because he wasn't an expert on the topic and he himself was imperfect in this regard.

In Islam emphasis is put on oneself, evidence for this is found in both the Quran and Hadiths in which it is said no one may intercede for another on the day of judgement, this means you alone are responsible for yourself you will not be collectively punished/judged by Allah and the day of judgement is the only day that matters, though Allah does promise the replace a group of people if they disobey him and fail him, but that is only in this life and not the day of judgement.

"You don't seem to grasp this fundamental distinction between the theoretical and the practical, that something you might hope for will in fact not be as you say in reality. This is why people are so critical of your ideas of slavery, women etc., because these same words have been used to defend historically what were abominable things and were abused. This is an empirical, not theoretical observation, and so is sounder than any hadith you can ever provide. Its rather like pointing out that murder is a major sin, and therefore there won't be any murders in an Islamic society, ignoring that that there were even in the times you most idolize. As you are unfamiliar with Islamic history, I ask, why is it that Pakistan—a nation created by people with almost identical purpose to you and indeed the origin of many of your ideals—has not become a utopia since its founding?"

Murders will exist as long as there is humanity even in the most perfect and just of Islamic States this is why Allah has given us rules regarding how to deal with such people, Pakistan is irrelevant in any discussion relating to Islamic governance or values.

I have, and am probably the only, one to have read your long list of links and watched your videos—ironically preached by a man wearing a suit and tie and a taqiyah, the very essence of a westernised Islam—and what I can say is that: teach-yourself-islam-online.com has left you disconnected from the actual sunnah and ummah: have you tried talking about this thing you are so passionate about with your parents, your local iman or nearest mosque and seen their reaction to speaking such nonsense?

More irrelevant nonsense Islam is Islam either you follow it correctly or not and only Allah knows best who is on the path of Haqq and the path of Batil the only thing you can do is try your best with the resources you have, it is definitely possible for the Shuyukh to be corrupt and ignorant themselves and follow distorted beliefs and for the laymen to be better, for numerous reasons with the biggest one being intent, it is better for the layman to do his best to serve Allah and call others to Islam than it is to be the most knowledgeable Sheikh and call people to falsehood and saying what is Halal is Haram and what is Haram is Halal, and try to alter our religion for PR reasons or appease modern understandings of things, as Islam is timeless and perfect and needs no 'help' or alteration of understanding and the people who have done this are the people whom Allah has condemned promising to replace them whether they are from the Khawarij, the Mutazilia, or the Murjiah it doesn't matter how learned this person is or their source of knowledge is, as Allah will guide whom he wills and whom Allah has guided can never be misguided and whom Allah has led astray will remain astray as they have disease in their hearts, and as stated Allah knows best in all affairs.

Jazakallah Khairan Habeebi

Wa iyyak

[Jolthig]

If anyone wants to know where brother Zizou went. His computer apparently broke so that's why we haven't seen him in a while

[El-Amin Caliphate]

If anyone wants to know where brother Zizou went. His computer apparently broke so that's why we haven't seen him in a while

Ok, thx for the update. Insha-Allah he'llbe with us again soon

[El-Amin Caliphate]

I have a topic to discuss:

What do y'all brothers and sisters think about the Iran-US tensions? War or no war? Who's side are you on? What else do you think on the situation? More importantly, what will this mean for our Ummah? Also, can someone explain yo me what this shooting down a plane business is all about?

[Galloism]

I have a topic to discuss:

What do y'all brothers and sisters think about the Iran-US tensions? War or no war? Who's side are you on? What else do you think on the situation? More importantly, what will this mean for our Ummah? Also, can someone explain yo me what this shooting down a plane business is all about?

I’m generally in favor of not having protracted wars in the Middle East, although that’s a minority view these days.

That being said, we’ll just have to see what happens. They might draw an American flag on fire with crayons on a napkin and share it on twitter, and boom - casus belli.

[Samudera Darussalam]

If anyone wants to know where brother Zizou went. His computer apparently broke so that's why we haven't seen him in a while

Thanks for the info. I do wonder why I see him less in the forums.
May his computer got fixed soon.

I have a topic to discuss:

What do y'all brothers and sisters think about the Iran-US tensions? War or no war? Who's side are you on? What else do you think on the situation? More importantly, what will this mean for our Ummah? Also, can someone explain yo me what this shooting down a plane business is all about?

The tensions between Iran and the U.S. are not something new to begin with, so I'm not really that surprised with the recent events, though I hope for the better for the two nations. Personally, I'm against war because of the unnecessary damage that wars more likely to cause, and that the Middle Eastern region specifically needs some stability.
Regarding which side that I'm going to take, I won't take either the American or Iranian side.

About the plane, do you mean the Iranian passenger plane, or the U.S. drone?

[El-Amin Caliphate]

If anyone wants to know where brother Zizou went. His computer apparently broke so that's why we haven't seen him in a while

Thanks for the info. I do wonder why I see him less in the forums.
May his computer got fixed soon.

I have a topic to discuss:

What do y'all brothers and sisters think about the Iran-US tensions? War or no war? Who's side are you on? What else do you think on the situation? More importantly, what will this mean for our Ummah? Also, can someone explain yo me what this shooting down a plane business is all about?

The tensions between Iran and the U.S. are not something new to begin with, so I'm not really that surprised with the recent events, though I hope for the better for the two nations. Personally, I'm against war because of the unnecessary damage that wars more likely to cause, and that the Middle Eastern region specifically needs some stability.
Regarding which side that I'm going to take, I won't take either the American or Iranian side.

About the plane, do you mean the Iranian passenger plane, or the U.S. drone?

The drone.
Yeah, neutrality might be the best way to go with war break out. But May Allah SWT prevent the nation's from going to war, aameen.

[Jolthig]

I'm debating Jamie Glazov on Twitter haha.

[Al Mumtahanah]

I have a topic to discuss:

What do y'all brothers and sisters think about the Iran-US tensions? War or no war? Who's side are you on? What else do you think on the situation? More importantly, what will this mean for our Ummah? Also, can someone explain yo me what this shooting down a plane business is all about?

Against war but if it comes to it Iran is the enemy of the Ummah

[Al Mumtahanah]

Are the Barelvi even Muslims, it is obvious the Deobandi are correct

[Jolthig]

I have a topic to discuss:

What do y'all brothers and sisters think about the Iran-US tensions? War or no war? Who's side are you on? What else do you think on the situation? More importantly, what will this mean for our Ummah? Also, can someone explain yo me what this shooting down a plane business is all about?

Against war but if it comes to it Iran is the enemy of the Ummah

Yes, but I would say Saudi Arabia and Pakistan are pretty much up there as well: Enemies of the Ummah.

[Al Mumtahanah]

Against war but if it comes to it Iran is the enemy of the Ummah

Yes, but I would say Saudi Arabia and Pakistan are pretty much up there as well: Enemies of the Ummah.

What, why, how?

[Jolthig]

Yes, but I would say Saudi Arabia and Pakistan are pretty much up there as well: Enemies of the Ummah.

What, why, how?

Because they both present false interpretations of Islam and commit numerous crimes against humanity that is prohibited by the Holy quran and sunnah. The saudis kill women and children in Yemen, and Pakistan persecutes ahmadi muslims.

They also both have a monopoly on the Ummah.

[Al Mumtahanah]

What, why, how?

Because they both present false interpretations of Islam and commit numerous crimes against humanity that is prohibited by the Holy quran and sunnah. The saudis kill women and children in Yemen, and Pakistan persecutes ahmadi muslims.

They also both have a monopoly on the Ummah.

False how?