Islamic Discussion Thread ٥: Free Tajweed, Absolutely Halaal

[Samudera Darussalam]

I just explained what makes you a Muslim and why they're not Muslim. You're grasping at straws.

What authority do you have to determine if someone is a Muslim or not? I understand the Quran states that they’re are those that say that they’re believers but are actually not(Al-Baqara Ayah 8. ). However, doesn’t that judgment only belong to Allah?

Yes, that's correct as far as my understanding goes.
(Sorry but I corrected the "ayah" part a bit )

And yes, El-Amin was a legitimate Muslim. Ive said this before: Anyone who observes the 5 daily prayers, faces Kaaba, slaughters animals in a Halal way. Etc. Are Muslim.

This.

[Ansarullah]

Clearly, you are trying to turn away anyone who is Muslim.
No one is perfect, I am sure there are Muslims, just like Christians, who have broken a few codes of the holy book here and there. But whats important is the dedication to their faith, and how far they are willing to go to ask for forgiveness.

Turn away anyone who is Muslim? What?

Why do you refer to ISIS as (N)ISIS? Does it stand for "New ISIS"?

Non Islamic State of Iraq and Sham

And yes, El-Amin was a legitimate Muslim. Ive said this before: Anyone who observes the 5 daily prayers, faces Kaaba, slaughters animals in a Halal way. Etc. Are Muslim.

So are the Pakistani cops killing you apostates.

What authority do you have to determine if someone is a Muslim or not? I understand the Quran states that they’re are those that say that they’re believers but are actually not(Al-Baqara Ayra 8). However, doesn’t that judgment only belong to Allah?

I explained multiple times what authority I have to call them apostates.

[Jolthig]

Don't worry, guys. He doesn't think I'm Muslim either.

And yet people admire the conduct of Ahmadi Muslims.

Except for when the Pakistani authorities in their fight for Islam persecute you. That's not really admiration.

Do you believe Ahmadis deserve the death penalty for "apostasy"?

[Diarcesia]

Because they deny the Qur'an. There's unlimited information online denouncing (N)ISIS and explaining why their actions are wrong. Any member of ISIS did, at minimum, some looking into them. They'd come across something at some point.

Why do you refer to ISIS as (N)ISIS? Does it stand for "New ISIS"?

Not ISIS. He doesn't consider ISIS Muslim, or at least Muslims in good standing.

[Tarsonis]

Uh, no they aren't. Quite a bit of modern scholarship questions their authenticity and there's even Quranist alone movements who want to do away with the Hadiths completely.

Quranis are apostates.

Not a rebuttal.

And what "scholarship"?

This might come as a shock to you, but there's an entire world of Islamic scholarship, from muslim and non-muslims alike, beyond the few clerics you listen to.

[Heloin]

Because they deny the Qur'an. There's unlimited information online denouncing (N)ISIS and explaining why their actions are wrong. Any member of ISIS did, at minimum, some looking into them. They'd come across something at some point.

Why do you refer to ISIS as (N)ISIS? Does it stand for "New ISIS"?

Nunchuk ISIS

[Immortan Khan]

And yes, El-Amin was a legitimate Muslim. Ive said this before: Anyone who observes the 5 daily prayers, faces Kaaba, slaughters animals in a Halal way. Etc. Are Muslim.

I've been meaning to ask this: do Arab Christians largely eat the halal way too?

It depends where they live. I've met some who stopped after moving outside of the MENA but some who did. A lot said it was just more convenient to eat the halal way when living in the MENA region. Similar to how there are Yazidis starting to eat pork in places like Germany and other Western countries.

[Jolthig]

And yes, El-Amin was a legitimate Muslim. Ive said this before: Anyone who observes the 5 daily prayers, faces Kaaba, slaughters animals in a Halal way. Etc. Are Muslim.

I've been meaning to ask this: do Arab Christians largely eat the halal way too?

I do not have knowledge of them so I cannot say.

I just know they occasionally use similar phrases we do.

[Ansarullah]

Do you believe Ahmadis deserve the death penalty for "apostasy"?

Yes. "Whoever leaves his religion, kill him."

Not ISIS. He doesn't consider ISIS Muslim, or at least Muslims in good standing.

I consider the organization and it's leadership apostates and those who fight for it as, at best, VERY misguided to the point where they're going to Hell regardless.

This might come as a shock to you, but there's an entire world of Islamic scholarship, from muslim and non-muslims alike, beyond the few clerics you listen to.

Wonderful, that doesn't tell me who.

Not a rebuttal.

"Follow the Prophet and his actions, and you will be led to success."
I forget what Ayah this is.

[Tarsonis]

What authority do you have to determine if someone is a Muslim or not? I understand the Quran states that they’re are those that say that they’re believers but are actually not(Al-Baqara Ayra . However, doesn’t that judgment only belong to Allah?

I explained multiple times what authority I have to call them apostates.

Which is none. Your argument is simply, "if they don't believe as I do they're not muslims." At least when I make the case that a group isn't Christian, I have actual arguments as to why.

[Ansarullah]

An-Nisa 59. that's the one.

[Celritannia]

Do you believe Ahmadis deserve the death penalty for "apostasy"?

Yes. "Whoever leaves his religion, kill him."

Killing innocents is not Islam.

[Ansarullah]

Which is none. Your argument is simply, "if they don't believe as I do they're not muslims." At least when I make the case that a group isn't Christian, I have actual arguments as to why.

You want me to explain?
Where do you want me to start and what do you want me to go into detail on? I'll bite even though I'm wasting my time with you.

[Ansarullah]

Yes. "Whoever leaves his religion, kill him."

Killing innocents is not Islam.

Keyword: Innocents

[Heloin]

Keyword: Innocents

Innocents means people who think shouldn't be murdered apparently.

[Diarcesia]

I explained multiple times what authority I have to call them apostates.

Which is none. Your argument is simply, "if they don't believe as I do they're not muslims." At least when I make the case that a group isn't Christian, I have actual arguments as to why.

At least for me, people I consider Muslims are:

And yes, El-Amin was a legitimate Muslim. Ive said this before: Anyone who observes the 5 daily prayers, faces Kaaba, slaughters animals in a Halal way. Etc. Are Muslim.

And Christians as anyone who professes Jesus is their lord and savior. Whether they are in good standing with their religion is a separate matter. Ansarullah may be mixing the two concept.

[Immortan Khan]

Keyword: Innocents

What makes them not innocent? Have they taken up arms against you?

[Tarsonis]

This might come as a shock to you, but there's an entire world of Islamic scholarship, from muslim and non-muslims alike, beyond the few clerics you listen to.

Wonderful, that doesn't tell me who.

We've shown you multiple sources on a variety of subjects that contradict your beliefs. You just reject them, oh what was the word you used, as "Jewish."

Not a rebuttal.

"Follow the Prophet and his actions, and you will be led to success."
I forget what Ayah this is.

Not a rebuttal. They do follow the Prophet, they keep to the Quran. They deny the authenticity of the Hadiths. That's not the same as denying the Prophet.

[Celritannia]

Keyword: Innocents

And what classifies as innocents here?

What did Ahmadis actually do?

[Ansarullah]

What makes them not innocent? Have they taken up arms against you?

Abandonment of Islam and the Sunnah.

And what classifies as innocents here?

What did Ahmadis actually do?

See above.

We've shown you multiple sources on a variety of subjects that contradict your beliefs. You just reject them, oh what was the word you used, as "Jewish."

That's the Holocaust. This is an entirely different topic.

Not a rebuttal. They do follow the Prophet, they keep to the Quran. They deny the authenticity of the Hadiths. That's not the same as denying the Prophet.

It is.
How do you think we know how to pray? How do you think we know the details and explanations of the Qur'an? How do you think 90% of Islam's theology was formed?

[Diahon]

This has regressed to something worse than I expected.

sigh

that said, let's make this personal: would our extremist duo make time to kill our resident ahmadi here -- jolthig, say -- when convenient?

[Celritannia]

Abandonment of Islam and the Sunnah.

That's not really a reason, though. How is that not innocent?

[Immortan Khan]

What makes them not innocent? Have they taken up arms against you?

Abandonment of Islam and the Sunnah.

That doesn't explain how they are no longer innocent.

[Tarsonis]

Which is none. Your argument is simply, "if they don't believe as I do they're not muslims." At least when I make the case that a group isn't Christian, I have actual arguments as to why.

You want me to explain?
Where do you want me to start and what do you want me to go into detail on? I'll bite even though I'm wasting my time with you.

I've seen you explain. Your explanations aren't convincing. You simply state they aren't muslims, and when pressed, you back it up with essentially "cause they aren't"

[Ansarullah]

that said, let's make this personal: would our extremist duo make time to kill our resident ahmadi here -- jolthig, say -- when convenient?

Fi Sabilillah I swear my allegiance to the Caliph of Islam Abu Bakr al Baghdadi and I swear to fight in his name against the enemies of the Caliphate
/s