Islamic Discussion Thread ٥: Free Tajweed, Absolutely Halaal

[The Archregimancy]

Now you got me considering whether or not previous prophets shared their names with other people.

Musa/Moses/Moshe/M-S is an exceptionally common root stem in ancient Egyptian, one often used by New Kingdom pharoahs.

In hieroglyphs M-S looks like this (in left to right order) , and forms the stem of words related to birth and childhood (note that Ancient Egyptian, unlike more modern Semitic languages like Arabic, had biconsonantal roots as well as triconsonantal roots). So 'Thutmose' is more accurately ḏḥwtj-ms, or 'Thoth is born', while 'Ramesses' is 'Ra-ms', or 'Ra is born'. So Musa's name is most likely a common Egyptian root stem frequently used in Egyptian names, and meaning 'one who is born' or 'child'.

[Dowaesk]

Now you got me considering whether or not previous prophets shared their names with other people.

I have done some research. And my observations tell me. Google needs to be updated. The fonts look too boring. I couldnt continue. So instead, I watched some Spongebob.

Idk how this is relevant


Well anyways. I got a question of my own. Mainly targeted towards non-Muslims, but Muslim answers are appreciated as well. Does Islam need reformation?

[Borderlands of Rojava]

Now you got me considering whether or not previous prophets shared their names with other people.

I have done some research. And my observations tell me. Google needs to be updated. The fonts look too boring. I couldnt continue. So instead, I watched some Spongebob.

Idk how this is relevant


Well anyways. I got a question of my own. Mainly targeted towards non-Muslims, but Muslim answers are appreciated as well. Does Islam need reformation?

Yes. It can start with having mix-gender prayer with both men and women sitting together and praying. Also I think Islam should accept gay people at least a little more. And maybe prayer could be done in English and in Arabic like how reform Jews pray in both English and Hebrew.

[Dowaesk]

I have done some research. And my observations tell me. Google needs to be updated. The fonts look too boring. I couldnt continue. So instead, I watched some Spongebob.

Idk how this is relevant


Well anyways. I got a question of my own. Mainly targeted towards non-Muslims, but Muslim answers are appreciated as well. Does Islam need reformation?

Yes. It can start with having mix-gender prayer with both men and women sitting together and praying. Also I think Islam should accept gay people at least a little more. And maybe prayer could be done in English and in Arabic like how reform Jews pray in both English and Hebrew.

I get the second and third one.

First one. Ummm idk. Im someone that is, uhhh... very into girls. Dont know why. Cant stop myself. And honestly, if I was.... lets say praying next to a pretty girl. I can almost 100% gaurantee you. Most of my prayer would be spent thinking abt her rather than on actual prayer. And you might say, I must learn to control myself. And then I'll say. "I CANT DO IT. I TRIED." Exposure doesnt work either. Here in Maldives, literally more than half of my little gang are Girls. Im not really worried about my overwhelming desires much, because Google says these kind of stuff happen to us during teen years. And if so, I sure as hell am not ready for a mixed gender prayer. So I will prolly not do that unless im something like 25 and have learnt to not care.
But then theres the fact that mosque attendance will get a boost. Coz im pretty sure, my friends would be very punctual if so. I wouldnt tho. I'd rather not go, then spend some time standing next to a girl thinking abt her instead of doing what I actually went there to do.

[Samudera Darussalam]

Yes. It can start with having mix-gender prayer with both men and women sitting together and praying. Also I think Islam should accept gay people at least a little more. And maybe prayer could be done in English and in Arabic like how reform Jews pray in both English and Hebrew.

I get the second and third one.

First one. Ummm idk. Im someone that is, uhhh... very into girls. Dont know why. Cant stop myself. And honestly, if I was.... lets say praying next to a pretty girl. I can almost 100% gaurantee you. Most of my prayer would be spent thinking abt her rather than on actual prayer. And you might say, I must learn to control myself. And then I'll say. "I CANT DO IT. I TRIED." Exposure doesnt work either. Here in Maldives, literally more than half of my little gang are Girls. Im not really worried about my overwhelming desires much, because Google says these kind of stuff happen to us during teen years. And if so, I sure as hell am not ready for a mixed gender prayer. So I will prolly not do that unless im something like 25 and have learnt to not care.
But then theres the fact that mosque attendance will get a boost. Coz im pretty sure, my friends would be very punctual if so. I wouldnt tho. I'd rather not go, then spend some time standing next to a girl thinking abt her instead of doing what I actually went there to do.

I'm kind of agree with how in it's practice, Islam should be more accepting. I know people of LGBTQ+ community myself, and I hate it that not only they have to struggle so much to reconcile the idea of being one with being a Muslim, while also gets the weird treatment by other 'normal' Muslims. I don't know why people are like that - it's not like they are harassing you.
The interpretation one can get tricky. I'm leaving that part with more knowledgeable people.

The third one I get, though not sure how that will be practiced. Translations can get long and I'm not sure people would stomach reciting Surah Al-Baqarah and its translations while praying. I get that it would hold more meaning by having the translations though.

The first one should not be that hard I guess? The whole point of praying is to communicate with God (sometimes also ranting your problems out too for me), though I can understand about the concentration thing. That's what people should learn more (along with self-control) were a gender-mix prayer be held.
I'm not sure what my sexuality exactly is, but I think I'm still into women. If I managed to sit with pretty girls without thinking about their attractiveness during class successfully, I guess I can pray with that setting.

[Muzehnaya]

Now you got me considering whether or not previous prophets shared their names with other people.

I have done some research. And my observations tell me. Google needs to be updated. The fonts look too boring. I couldnt continue. So instead, I watched some Spongebob.

Idk how this is relevant


Well anyways. I got a question of my own. Mainly targeted towards non-Muslims, but Muslim answers are appreciated as well. Does Islam need reformation?

No, I really don't think so. What aspect of Islam are we "reforming" and why are we doing so? In general, I am very wary of any movement that claims to be "reforming" Islam, because they always seem to come with some type of nonsense behind it. On one hand, you have so called "liberal" reformers who use their bizarre interpretations of the Quran and Sunnah to try and make everything halal, and on the other you have reactionaries like Daniel Haqiqatjou who takfir people for believing in evolution. And the most widespread "reform" movement in recent times has been Wahhabism. I don't think I need to elaborate on why their beliefs are totally bizarre and nonsensical, and all they have succeeded in doing is destroying the intellectual heritage and history of Islam. Their "reform" was declaring everybody but themselves as mushrikeen and taking knives and kalashnikovs and killing everybody who disagreed with them.

Now, I am sure that there are ideas of reform which are less radical than these. And if such reforms fall within the bounds of the Quran and Sunnah, and are done by a qualified mujtahid, then it may be good to accept them. However, the impression I've gotten from these reform movements is overwhelmingly negative.

[NationStates Puppet]

Now you got me considering whether or not previous prophets shared their names with other people.

I have done some research. And my observations tell me. Google needs to be updated. The fonts look too boring. I couldnt continue. So instead, I watched some Spongebob.

Idk how this is relevant


Well anyways. I got a question of my own. Mainly targeted towards non-Muslims, but Muslim answers are appreciated as well. Does Islam need reformation?

Well, no.

[Dowaesk]

I have done some research. And my observations tell me. Google needs to be updated. The fonts look too boring. I couldnt continue. So instead, I watched some Spongebob.

Idk how this is relevant


Well anyways. I got a question of my own. Mainly targeted towards non-Muslims, but Muslim answers are appreciated as well. Does Islam need reformation?

No, I really don't think so. What aspect of Islam are we "reforming" and why are we doing so? In general, I am very wary of any movement that claims to be "reforming" Islam, because they always seem to come with some type of nonsense behind it. On one hand, you have so called "liberal" reformers who use their bizarre interpretations of the Quran and Sunnah to try and make everything halal, and on the other you have reactionaries like Daniel Haqiqatjou who takfir people for believing in evolution. And the most widespread "reform" movement in recent times has been Wahhabism. I don't think I need to elaborate on why their beliefs are totally bizarre and nonsensical, and all they have succeeded in doing is destroying the intellectual heritage and history of Islam. Their "reform" was declaring everybody but themselves as mushrikeen and taking knives and kalashnikovs and killing everybody who disagreed with them.

Now, I am sure that there are ideas of reform which are less radical than these. And if such reforms fall within the bounds of the Quran and Sunnah, and are done by a qualified mujtahid, then it may be good to accept them. However, the impression I've gotten from these reform movements is overwhelmingly negative.

A reform as in like more suitable to the modern world and west. (Although i agree. Some aspects of the West is bad. We cant ignore them if we want to progress). A reform set to make Islamic Democracy a real working thing. A reform thats supposed to be as workable in a modern world, that we can do anything as well as any Secular state out there, without turning into them. And most importantly, without throwing away Islam.

I was quite into this sort of weird Islamic reform movement website I found on google. I happily went along scrolling through pages. That is until I saw "Free from Hijab; Free from Oppression" in big black bold letters. I read it and realised this movement pretty much plans not to actually "save" hijabis but alienate them and associate them with the so-called "misogynists". And from there on. Bam. I dumped those ideas. That was the only reformist movement that actually appealed to me.

I personally think a reform is unnecessary. We just need to think different. Which is why. I find Shafi so very appealing. Dont know why, but I find a lot of interest in Shafi fiqh. Shafi rejects judicial power based on Islamic Scholar opinion and rather allows logical reasoning to overpower it.

[Samudera Darussalam]

That's good to hear, I suppose. Not sure why she was being detained in the first place though.


Huh, things happened when I wasn't online.
Tbh as a Muslim who live in the region myself I kinda agree with him on several parts - with how it is interpreted and practiced - but not sure why not blame those instead of the religion, but oh well.


That's....his background?
Not sure how it is in Malaysia, but in Indonesia (where there are many cultural similarities) I have experienced those during my elementary and junior high years. Kids are throwing out names with abandon, and I don't think that they are calling people 'slanted-eyes' or 'the Chinese' with deliberate racist intentions....I guess. There was this girl who got called a 'power pole' since she was the tallest kid in my grade. That's....just how kids behave there?
I hope that changes into more respectful though, since not all of those are fun to experience with.


I agree with this. While I dislike Israel, the thought of its outright collapse would just result in many casualties, something I dislike much more.

But doesnt Malaysia and Indonesia have Shafi fiqh in Government as well? Oppressing minorities and other crazy stuff would be quite unusual since Shafi does not allow any judicial power to Islamic Scholars. Instead it allows logical reasoning to overpower that of opinions given by Scholars. And logically thinking, that'd be stupid.

It's complex, but I can think of several reasons.
I can't speak for Malaysia, but in Indonesia it's not far from politics (and that is tied with mob power). Traditionally, our ulamas have been moderate and sometimes progressive, quite enough in fact that one of them testify in support for legal recognition of one's new gender. The new online generation of ulamas though, have this weird interpretation of Islam, perhaps because a lot of them went to Saudi Arabia for education. I used to have one of that kind for Islamic studies at uni, I immediately dislike his views at our first class (why encourage us to practice polygamy, btw?)
Combine that with the traditional reverence people there have for ulamas, you will get the idea.

There is also the factor that people in SEA don't really like the Chinese for a variety of factors. Sometimes it can get tied with religion. There is this weird competition between Malays, Indians, and Chinese in Malaysia so that might also become part of the problem.

Another thing is that....sometimes, Muslims won't get pleasant experience staying in non-majority Muslim areas, and people will look at that and think, that it is okay to do the same to non-Muslims since Muslims have it bad in those places. My father and his family for instance used to stay in a Christian-majority neighbourhood in one of Indonesia's eastern islands. They have to move to a more mixed place within a week of their arrival due to their neighbours' treatment of his family. That's part of my father's rather.....nonchalant response to complaints of non-Muslims that get unjust treatment, since he and his family used to receive one.

[Insaanistan]

I have done some research. And my observations tell me. Google needs to be updated. The fonts look too boring. I couldnt continue. So instead, I watched some Spongebob.

Idk how this is relevant


Well anyways. I got a question of my own. Mainly targeted towards non-Muslims, but Muslim answers are appreciated as well. Does Islam need reformation?

Yes. It can start with having mix-gender prayer with both men and women sitting together and praying. Also I think Islam should accept gay people at least a little more. And maybe prayer could be done in English and in Arabic like how reform Jews pray in both English and Hebrew.

So, while barriers are definitely not needed, men and women pray separately because Muslim prayer involves a lot of bending and…well, guys are guys.
Additionally, while the five daily prayers are to be said in Arabic, supplications that can be said following them or really at any time of the day can be said in any language. I’ve heard them given in Urdu, Oromo, Hausa, Spanish and English.

As for attitudes toward gay people, the Islamic world used to be much more tolerant of homosexuality, with prominent poets like Rumi writing openly homoerotic poems (though attidudes towards homosexual intercourse varied much less then than they do now compared to just identifying as homosexual). The current attitudes are due to two main things:
1. The British introduced many anti-sodomy laws to their colonies, as did the French.
2. As gay people in Western countries openly campaigned more and more for their rights, homosexuality began to be associated with the West, and in turn, with the colonial powers.

[Insaanistan]

Now you got me considering whether or not previous prophets shared their names with other people.

Some of them had pretty literal names, so I wouldn’t be surprised.

[Dowaesk]

Yes. It can start with having mix-gender prayer with both men and women sitting together and praying. Also I think Islam should accept gay people at least a little more. And maybe prayer could be done in English and in Arabic like how reform Jews pray in both English and Hebrew.

So, while barriers are definitely not needed, men and women pray separately because Muslim prayer involves a lot of bending and…well, guys are guys.

I can back this. Im proof. Lol (dont get me wrong. Im not a pervert). The bending thing will be most prominent during sujood. And sujood is the most important part of the prayer. Am not sexist, but I cant have the girl's ass in my mind while im in sujood. So i would actually refuse to pray in such a situation. I would take the time to wonder about girls some other time. Just not during prayer.

[Samudera Darussalam]

So, while barriers are definitely not needed, men and women pray separately because Muslim prayer involves a lot of bending and…well, guys are guys.

I can back this. Im proof. Lol (dont get me wrong. Im not a pervert). The bending thing will be most prominent during sujood. And sujood is the most important part of the prayer. Am not sexist, but I cant have the girl's ass in my mind while im in sujood. So i would actually refuse to pray in such a situation. I would take the time to wonder about girls some other time. Just not during prayer.

Huh, maybe I'm a special case I guess
I think I've gotten used to it since the one person who taught me how to do prayers is my own mother. I don't find it weird at all.

Edit: I guess I'm also a bit egoist. People are different and I shouldn't judge based on my own experience, I guess. Sorry for that.

[Insaanistan]

I’m a guy and only 1 person, so I can’t speak for every single Muslimah in earth, but all the ones I know are either indifferent to the fact women pray behind men or thankful for it.

[Dowaesk]

I can back this. Im proof. Lol (dont get me wrong. Im not a pervert). The bending thing will be most prominent during sujood. And sujood is the most important part of the prayer. Am not sexist, but I cant have the girl's ass in my mind while im in sujood. So i would actually refuse to pray in such a situation. I would take the time to wonder about girls some other time. Just not during prayer.

Huh, maybe I'm a special case I guess
I think I've gotten used to it since the one person who taught me how to do prayers is my own mother. I don't find it weird at all.

Edit: I guess I'm also a bit egoist. People are different and I shouldn't judge based on my own experience, I guess. Sorry for that.

No worries. I found no offense in anything you said. I also seem to be a much unique case. Unlike yours, im obviously more engaged with my sexual desires. And no. I dont think you are egoist. You are very nice and I like you. I think its fine comparing points brought on by another with what you personally have experienced.

[Dowaesk]

I’m a guy and only 1 person, so I can’t speak for every single Muslimah in earth, but all the ones I know are either indifferent to the fact women pray behind men or thankful for it.

Hmm. Women in front eh? Now thats like a buffet.

(Oh damn. That sounded dirty. Just wanted to say that it would not be as nice.)

[Borderlands of Rojava]

Yes. It can start with having mix-gender prayer with both men and women sitting together and praying. Also I think Islam should accept gay people at least a little more. And maybe prayer could be done in English and in Arabic like how reform Jews pray in both English and Hebrew.

So, while barriers are definitely not needed, men and women pray separately because Muslim prayer involves a lot of bending and…well, guys are guys.
Additionally, while the five daily prayers are to be said in Arabic, supplications that can be said following them or really at any time of the day can be said in any language. I’ve heard them given in Urdu, Oromo, Hausa, Spanish and English.

As for attitudes toward gay people, the Islamic world used to be much more tolerant of homosexuality, with prominent poets like Rumi writing openly homoerotic poems (though attidudes towards homosexual intercourse varied much less then than they do now compared to just identifying as homosexual). The current attitudes are due to two main things:
1. The British introduced many anti-sodomy laws to their colonies, as did the French.
2. As gay people in Western countries openly campaigned more and more for their rights, homosexuality began to be associated with the West, and in turn, with the colonial powers.

Guys can learn self control. If people can control themselves in a church, they can do it in a mosque too.

[Insaanistan]

So, while barriers are definitely not needed, men and women pray separately because Muslim prayer involves a lot of bending and…well, guys are guys.
Additionally, while the five daily prayers are to be said in Arabic, supplications that can be said following them or really at any time of the day can be said in any language. I’ve heard them given in Urdu, Oromo, Hausa, Spanish and English.

As for attitudes toward gay people, the Islamic world used to be much more tolerant of homosexuality, with prominent poets like Rumi writing openly homoerotic poems (though attidudes towards homosexual intercourse varied much less then than they do now compared to just identifying as homosexual). The current attitudes are due to two main things:
1. The British introduced many anti-sodomy laws to their colonies, as did the French.
2. As gay people in Western countries openly campaigned more and more for their rights, homosexuality began to be associated with the West, and in turn, with the colonial powers.

Guys can learn self control. If people can control themselves in a church, they can do it in a mosque too.

While I understand the sentiment, there’s a difference between staring at the back of a girl’s head and staring at her bottom repeatedly.

[Dowaesk]

So, while barriers are definitely not needed, men and women pray separately because Muslim prayer involves a lot of bending and…well, guys are guys.
Additionally, while the five daily prayers are to be said in Arabic, supplications that can be said following them or really at any time of the day can be said in any language. I’ve heard them given in Urdu, Oromo, Hausa, Spanish and English.

As for attitudes toward gay people, the Islamic world used to be much more tolerant of homosexuality, with prominent poets like Rumi writing openly homoerotic poems (though attidudes towards homosexual intercourse varied much less then than they do now compared to just identifying as homosexual). The current attitudes are due to two main things:
1. The British introduced many anti-sodomy laws to their colonies, as did the French.
2. As gay people in Western countries openly campaigned more and more for their rights, homosexuality began to be associated with the West, and in turn, with the colonial powers.

Guys can learn self control. If people can control themselves in a church, they can do it in a mosque too.

But..... The people at church. They dont bend and show bottom. But here in mosques we do. Not to mention. Its a requirement in prayer, to be as close as possible to each other. That'd mean. Me standing shoulder to shoulder with a girl and looking at her ass repeatedly during prayer. And self control. I dont think thats possible because as i said. I'll be looking at her ass reeatedly. Not to mention touching her feet and possibly shoulder.

Guys can learn self control. If people can control themselves in a church, they can do it in a mosque too.

From what I seen on Comedy Central. I dont think they do. Because I seen those Americans doing stuff inside Grandma's coffin. (Just joking)

[The Archregimancy]

Well anyways. I got a question of my own. Mainly targeted towards non-Muslims, but Muslim answers are appreciated as well. Does Islam need reformation?

Since you specifically asked for non-Muslim opinions...

I'm writing here as someone who's lived and worked extensively in the Gulf region and Egypt over the last few years, and... it's not really up to me to say whether Islam needs 'reformation'. First of all, Islam isn't a hive mind or monolith, and secondly, why should it be up to an Orthodox Christian to lecture Muslims on what they should and shouldn't do?

That disclaimer out of the way... I think Islam is in the middle of a reformation, one with some not insignificant similarities to the Protestant Reformation within Christianity. It's perhaps easy to forget that the 16th- and 17th-century Protestant 'reformers' weren't Enlightenment rationalists, but rather radical puritanical iconoclasts who tried to destroy anything they characterised as idolatry in the name of returning Christianity to a purer form closer to what they believed were the practices of the early Christian Church before it became corrupted.

Sound familiar? Let's just say that Wahhabis and Salafists wouldn't have looked entirely out of place advancing some of their opinions in Calvinist Geneva.

It would perhaps be easy to overplay the similarities, and obviously the theological approaches are distinct, but it doesn't take too much to see the current conflicts within the Islamic World as a latter-day version of the religious conflicts that consumed Europe for much of the 16th and 17th centuries.

So the question could perhaps be reframed as not 'does Islam need reformation' - which isn't my place to say - but rather 'what direction does Islam take after its current ongoing reformation'?

[Insaanistan]

Well anyways. I got a question of my own. Mainly targeted towards non-Muslims, but Muslim answers are appreciated as well. Does Islam need reformation?

Since you specifically asked for non-Muslim opinions...

I'm writing here as someone who's lived and worked extensively in the Gulf region and Egypt over the last few years, and... it's not really up to me to say whether Islam needs 'reformation'. First of all, Islam isn't a hive mind or monolith, and secondly, why should it be up to an Orthodox Christian to lecture Muslims on what they should and shouldn't do?

That disclaimer out of the way... I think Islam is in the middle of a reformation, one with some not insignificant similarities to the Protestant Reformation within Christianity. It's perhaps easy to forget that the 16th- and 17th-century Protestant 'reformers' weren't Enlightenment rationalists, but rather radical puritanical iconoclasts who tried to destroy anything they characterised as idolatry in the name of returning Christianity to a purer form closer to what they believed were the practices of the early Christian Church before it became corrupted.

Sound familiar? Let's just say that Wahhabis and Salafists wouldn't have looked entirely out of place advancing some of their opinions in Calvinist Geneva.

It would perhaps be easy to overplay the similarities, and obviously the theological approaches are distinct, but it doesn't take too much to the conflicts within the Islamic World as a latter-day version of the religious conflicts that consumed Europe for much of the 16th and 17th centuries.

So the question could perhaps be reframed as not 'does Islam need reformation' - which isn't my place to say - but rather 'what direction does Islam take after its current ongoing reformation'?

In the words of Rayyan Hamoudi from Little Mosque on the Prairie, we need to bring the Muslim world
“Into the 21st century, or back into the 7th.”

[Samudera Darussalam]

Since you specifically asked for non-Muslim opinions...

I'm writing here as someone who's lived and worked extensively in the Gulf region and Egypt over the last few years, and... it's not really up to me to say whether Islam needs 'reformation'. First of all, Islam isn't a hive mind or monolith, and secondly, why should it be up to an Orthodox Christian to lecture Muslims on what they should and shouldn't do?

That disclaimer out of the way... I think Islam is in the middle of a reformation, one with some not insignificant similarities to the Protestant Reformation within Christianity. It's perhaps easy to forget that the 16th- and 17th-century Protestant 'reformers' weren't Enlightenment rationalists, but rather radical puritanical iconoclasts who tried to destroy anything they characterised as idolatry in the name of returning Christianity to a purer form closer to what they believed were the practices of the early Christian Church before it became corrupted.

Sound familiar? Let's just say that Wahhabis and Salafists wouldn't have looked entirely out of place advancing some of their opinions in Calvinist Geneva.

It would perhaps be easy to overplay the similarities, and obviously the theological approaches are distinct, but it doesn't take too much to the conflicts within the Islamic World as a latter-day version of the religious conflicts that consumed Europe for much of the 16th and 17th centuries.

So the question could perhaps be reframed as not 'does Islam need reformation' - which isn't my place to say - but rather 'what direction does Islam take after its current ongoing reformation'?

In the words of Rayyan Hamoudi from Little Mosque on the Prairie, we need to bring the Muslim world
“Into the 21st century, or back into the 7th.”

I'm glad to know that I'm not the only one who have watched that show, even if only a couple of episodes.

On the other hand.....I hope that the direction would not be towards Wahhabism or Salafism.

[Dowaesk]

In the words of Rayyan Hamoudi from Little Mosque on the Prairie, we need to bring the Muslim world
“Into the 21st century, or back into the 7th.”

I'm glad to know that I'm not the only one who have watched that show, even if only a couple of episodes.

On the other hand.....I hope that the direction would not be towards Wahhabism or Salafism.

I personally, from what I see. Wahhabism will die at something like 2030 or 2040. The only thing holding it, is the Saudi Government. And yeh, the Saudi Government, aint gonna last that long. Salafism will continue. And it will have strong roots. Salafism, having good grasps on culture and a great load of hadith and verses to back their ideas. Salafi Wahhabism, will grow weaker. But it will also continue living. As for Salafi Jihadism, damn idk. Bad people will always be there. So I cant say anything abt that. Khawarijs will always continue spreading chaos in the name of Islam. And these Khawarijs are just going to increase near the end of the days.

[Dowaesk]

ISIS and Al-Qaeda today:

In particular, the groups are alleged to share the militant Kharijites' anarchist and radical approach whereby self-described Muslims are declared unbelievers and therefore deemed worthy of death. However, ISIL and Al-Qaeda preachers reject being compared to the Kharijites, instead calling themselves the true Muslims and their opponents lax Muslims.

Khawarijites 1300 years ago:

Considered most Muslims to be disbelievers and would fight them if they did not repent. They rebelled against the rightful rulers and Muslim rulers who did not rule with Islamic law. Kharijites were the first group in Islamic history to practise takfir and hence justified the killings of those who they deemed infidels.
A second characteristic of the Kharijites is their shallow understanding of the religion and lack of rigorous Islamic scholarship. As such, their comprehension of the Quran is superficial and prone to literal, extreme misinterpretations. However, they were scornful of the people of knowledge and would consider the true scholars of Islam as misguided. This is so as to consider themselves to be more righteous than the people of knowledge.
A third characteristic of Kharijites was the outward piety that they portrayed. They appeared to be very religious and were fanatics in their worship. Their piety and devotional acts would impress many but they did have an effect on their behaviour. The Prophet had described these characteristics and warned Muslims not to be deceived by their outward piety and use of the religion.

Ah! The Irony

Here are 2 hadith I found. Talking about the Khawarijites.

After the battle of Hunayn while the Prophet ﷺ was distributing charity to a few people whose hearts needed to be reconciled, there came a man with a thick beard, prominent cheek bones, deep sunken eyes, protruding forehead and shaven head. He exclaimed: Fear Allah, O Muhammad! (the exact words have been lost to history, but it had something to do with accusing Prophet Muhammad of not being fair and proper) The Prophet ﷺ responded: ‘Who will obey Allah if I were to disobey him? Am I not [sent as the] most trustworthy person on earth; and yet you trust me not?’ The man then turned back, whereupon one of those present asked for permission to kill him. But the Prophet ﷺ said: ‘Verily, from the progeny (di’di) of this [man] shall come a people who will recite the Qur’an but it won’t pass beyond their throats. They will slay the followers of Islam and would spare the people of idolatry. They will pierce through the religion just like an arrow which goes clean through a prey.’

"Umar (RA) insisted that Prophet Muhammad give him permission to kill him. Then Prophet Muhammad said ‘Leave him; he has comrades whose prayer and fasting will make your prayer and fasting seem insignificant. They recite the Qur’an but it doesn’t go beyond their throats. They shall pass through the religion as an arrow that pierces clean through its prey such that, on inspecting the head; then the shaft; then the fletching; then the nock, would see no traces of blood or viscera on it whatsoever."

And some extra ones:
Imam Muslim narrates from ‘Ubayd Allah b. Abi Rafi‘, a freed salve of the Prophet ﷺ, that the Khawarij came out against Ali, and declared: "There is no judgement, except Allah’s." So ‘Ali replied: "A word of truth, intended for something false"

Ibn Hajr wrote: "The Khawarij, what led them to judge those who opposed them to be disbelievers, making their blood lawful … and engage in fighting and killing Muslims? All this is from the vestiges of those who worship upon ignorance; those whose hearts haven’t been expanded by the light of knowledge. nor do they hold tightly to the firm rope of knowledge.’13 Indeed, more than any other fitnah today, the ummah is beset with takfiri violence, murder and mayhem, wreaked upon it mostly by those ‘young in age and weak in intellect."

Ibn Taymiyyah said: "The Khawarij were the first to declare Muslims to be unbelievers due to what they believed was committing sins. They declared as disbelievers whoever opposed them in their innovation, and made lawful the shedding of blood and the seizing of wealth."


I also found this article. Quite liked it. https://www.csis.org/analysis/islam-and-patterns-terrorism-and-violent-extremism

[Muzehnaya]

I'm glad to know that I'm not the only one who have watched that show, even if only a couple of episodes.

On the other hand.....I hope that the direction would not be towards Wahhabism or Salafism.

I personally, from what I see. Wahhabism will die at something like 2030 or 2040. The only thing holding it, is the Saudi Government. And yeh, the Saudi Government, aint gonna last that long. Salafism will continue. And it will have strong roots. Salafism, having good grasps on culture and a great load of hadith and verses to back their ideas. Salafi Wahhabism, will grow weaker. But it will also continue living. As for Salafi Jihadism, damn idk. Bad people will always be there. So I cant say anything abt that. Khawarijs will always continue spreading chaos in the name of Islam. And these Khawarijs are just going to increase near the end of the days.

To be honest, even if the Saudi government were to fall tomorrow, Wahhabism would still continue to persist for some time. It will eventually fade into obscurity in some hundreds of years, just like all the deviant sects throughout the history of Islam, but it will not happen overnight. They are simply too prominent to just disappear, even if their funding is cut from them. Right now, they are at the forefront of the internet (Islamqa.info) and they are at the forefront of publishing (Darussalam).

Also, the fact of the mater is that their influence is so destructive that we will continue to feel their effects long after they are gone. Their legacy of destroying masjids and desecrating the graves and monuments dedicated to righteous people will be difficult to undo. Not to mention that they have stolen and burnt the books of Imam Malik and Ibn Hajar, and other books of tassawuf and salawat. It is good that at least we have the internet now, so that these books can be preserved from these jahil book burners.

Also, you mention some hadith mentioning the Khawarij and such people. Personally speaking, there is one saying which I believe is very important, which is the following:

Abu Huraira reported: The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “Do not envy each other, do not outbid each other, do not hate each other, do not turn away from each other, and do not outsell each other. Rather, be servants of Allah as brothers. The Muslim is the brother of another Muslim. He does not wrong him, nor humiliate him, nor look down upon him. Righteousness is here,” and he pointed to his chest three times. The Prophet said, “It is enough evil for a man to look down upon his Muslim brother. The entirety of the Muslim is sacred to another Muslim: his life, his wealth, and his reputation.”

And if you look at the behavior of these people, you will clearly find that they sorely lack many of these characteristics. It is plainly clear that they do not value the life of any other Muslim; see their actions in Yemen and their own fatwas where they have taken it upon themselves to legalize the killing of even women and children. They look down upon all other Muslims, and consider themselves superior by the virtue of the fact that they "don't blindly follow a madhab" (ignoring the fact that they themselves are more than happy to blindly follow their own scholars). And they also clearly do not care about the reputation of other Muslims, and are happy to accuse them of shirk, grave worship, practicing sihr, and other such nonsense.