Islamic Discussion Thread ٥: Free Tajweed, Absolutely Halaal

[Fartsniffage]

How did he do that?

"Walakium salaam"

Meaning, And peace be on you. in response to you sarcastically wishing him good luck.

There was no sarcasm on my part. I like the guy, I'd rather he stuck around.

[Samudera Darussalam]

Anyway, to get back on topic, during Ramadan my Community inaugurated a new mosque at a place known as Islamabad by London, UK. I've been to that place personally while it was under construction and it's a nice ranch. Reminds me of northern Wisconsin Haha. Beautiful place and masjid.

Good grace, "Islamabad"?

But other than that, it's nice to hear. I've never been to a mosque inaguration eventhough I live in a Muslim-majority region, but I'm willing to bet that the event is exciting, from what I have read about mosque's inaguration in Tatarstan.

[Zizou]

Anyway, to get back on topic, during Ramadan my Community inaugurated a new mosque at a place known as Islamabad by London, UK. I've been to that place personally while it was under construction and it's a nice ranch. Reminds me of northern Wisconsin Haha. Beautiful place and masjid.

Wait, just to clarify, the masjid named Islamabad, not constructed there right? Alhamdulilah either way though, nice to see more Ahmadi masjids being built!

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Anyway, to get back on topic, during Ramadan my Community inaugurated a new mosque at a place known as Islamabad by London, UK. I've been to that place personally while it was under construction and it's a nice ranch. Reminds me of northern Wisconsin Haha. Beautiful place and masjid.

Wait, just to clarify, the masjid named Islamabad, not constructed there right? Alhamdulilah either way though, nice to see more Ahmadi masjids being built!

Why?

[Zizou]

Wait, just to clarify, the masjid named Islamabad, not constructed there right? Alhamdulilah either way though, nice to see more Ahmadi masjids being built!

Why?

Lol, what do you mean by “why?”

[Jolthig]

Anyway, to get back on topic, during Ramadan my Community inaugurated a new mosque at a place known as Islamabad by London, UK. I've been to that place personally while it was under construction and it's a nice ranch. Reminds me of northern Wisconsin Haha. Beautiful place and masjid.

Good grace, "Islamabad"?

But other than that, it's nice to hear. I've never been to a mosque inaguration eventhough I live in a Muslim-majority region, but I'm willing to bet that the event is exciting, from what I have read about mosque's inaguration in Tatarstan.

Yep. It's the name of a ranch near the outskirts of London or something like that.

Anyway, to get back on topic, during Ramadan my Community inaugurated a new mosque at a place known as Islamabad by London, UK. I've been to that place personally while it was under construction and it's a nice ranch. Reminds me of northern Wisconsin Haha. Beautiful place and masjid.

Wait, just to clarify, the masjid named Islamabad, not constructed there right? Alhamdulilah either way though, nice to see more Ahmadi masjids being built!

It's the name of a ranch by London near its outskirts. No not the capital of Pakistan.

[Zizou]

Good grace, "Islamabad"?

But other than that, it's nice to hear. I've never been to a mosque inaguration eventhough I live in a Muslim-majority region, but I'm willing to bet that the event is exciting, from what I have read about mosque's inaguration in Tatarstan.

Yep. It's the name of a ranch near the outskirts of London or something like that.

Wait, just to clarify, the masjid named Islamabad, not constructed there right? Alhamdulilah either way though, nice to see more Ahmadi masjids being built!

It's the name of a ranch by London near its outskirts. No not the capital of Pakistan.

Ohh okay. Inshallah it does well!

[Samudera Darussalam]

Anyway, uh, it kinds of directed to Jolthig and other reverts, but if others want to response, it's cool.

So, say that you want to convert (or get re-converted) to Islam. We all know that the process most likely involves visiting a nearby mosque, meeting the available imams or maybe others, and then reciting the Shahada (from what I read). What if that you don't want to do that for some reasons (like feeling shy around many people), but you still want to convert to the religion? What can be done?

[Jolthig]

Anyway, uh, it kinds of directed to Jolthig and other reverts, but if others want to response, it's cool.

So, say that you want to convert (or get re-converted) to Islam. We all know that the process most likely involves visiting a nearby mosque, meeting the available imams or maybe others, and then reciting the Shahada (from what I read). What if that you don't want to do that for some reasons (like feeling shy around many people), but you still want to convert to the religion? What can be done?

Not sure? I think one can be in contact with someone to talk about Islam. But they should be confident enough to do so unless if their circumstances does not permit them.

[Samudera Darussalam]

Not sure? I think one can be in contact with someone to talk about Islam. But they should be confident enough to do so unless if their circumstances does not permit them.

I can't say about the people who previously aren't Muslims, but maybe it works, too.

However, what if the person in question was a Muslim before and want to convert back? If they are previously a practicing one, don't they at least know how to recite the Shahada (and its meaning) without guidance? (Unless, of couse, they have forgotten it)
Can the conversion be done by the person themselves, by reciting the Shahada alone with the intent of reconverting back to Islam?

[Jolthig]

Not sure? I think one can be in contact with someone to talk about Islam. But they should be confident enough to do so unless if their circumstances does not permit them.

I can't say about the people who previously aren't Muslims, but maybe it works, too.

However, what if the person in question was a Muslim before and want to convert back? If they are previously a practicing one, don't they at least know how to recite the Shahada (and its meaning) without guidance? (Unless, of couse, they have forgotten it)
Can the conversion be done by the person themselves, by reciting the Shahada alone with the intent of reconverting back to Islam?

Yes. Allah knows best.

[A m e n r i a]

Anyway, uh, it kinds of directed to Jolthig and other reverts, but if others want to response, it's cool.

So, say that you want to convert (or get re-converted) to Islam. We all know that the process most likely involves visiting a nearby mosque, meeting the available imams or maybe others, and then reciting the Shahada (from what I read). What if that you don't want to do that for some reasons (like feeling shy around many people), but you still want to convert to the religion? What can be done?

Conversions in Changchun happen between an imam and a person who wants to convert. It's quite private, since there's hardly ever anyone else at the mosque.

[Jolthig]

Salaam brothers. I just got a second job so I'm letting you all know I'll be less active now. However alhamdulilah its worth a couple muslims who work there

[Samudera Darussalam]

Salaam brothers. I just got a second job so I'm letting you all know I'll be less active now. However alhamdulilah its worth a couple muslims who work there

Oh, congratulations Jolt, it's okay. Good luck on your new job!

Conversions in Changchun happen between an imam and a person who wants to convert. It's quite private, since there's hardly ever anyone else at the mosque.

Ah okay, I see. Thanks A m e n r i a!

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Is there anything that Islam does allow besides smoking hookahs and severing limbs?

Concubinage and lashing at gays for wanting to have sex with the same gender.

https://abuaminaelias.com/what-does-isl ... oncubines/
https://islamqa.info/en/answers/13737/w ... lave-women
https://aboutislam.net/counseling/ask-a ... oncubines/

[El-Amin Caliphate]

1: Did you read the links?
2: There's a reason I posted in that thread

I did read it, and one of the first things I saw in each was "slave"

By your own godd*mn links, concubines were slaves. Concubines were not free women who could go out and do their own thing, no they had to serve their master. I don't give two d*mns about "Well, Islam gave slaves rights." You don't keep slaves. That is wrong on so many levels.

Says who?

In other words: If you want a concubine, you need a slave. And by the gods above, you should not keep slaves

I agree you should not keep slaves. In Al-Islam slavery is considered makruh (disapproved). Hence why there are many avenues to free slaves and if a slave wants their freedom, a mukaatabah should be formed.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Something weird I noticed and wanted to point out earlier:

Why was only that stuff pointed out? There's a whole myriad of things Al-Islam allows that isn't Haraam, so why point out concubinage and lashing zaaniyoon (people who commit illegal sexual intercourse)?

I was going to sit this round out, but zaaniyoon is such an inherently fun word that I have to point out that since (islamic)concubinage appears to be slavery, and having sex with one's own slaves is inherently rape, all muslims who keep concubines should be considered zaaniyoon.

Except it's not rape. Muslims cannot rape their slsves, that's Haraam and punishable with these punishments:
https://sunnah.com/urn/414630
https://sunnah.com/bukhari/89/10

[Diopolis]

I was going to sit this round out, but zaaniyoon is such an inherently fun word that I have to point out that since (islamic)concubinage appears to be slavery, and having sex with one's own slaves is inherently rape, all muslims who keep concubines should be considered zaaniyoon.

Except it's not rape. Muslims cannot rape their slsves, that's Haraam and punishable with these punishments:
https://sunnah.com/urn/414630
https://sunnah.com/bukhari/89/10

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_v ... oncubinage
[quote=wiki] A Muslim slaveholder was entitled by law to the sexual enjoyment of his slave women.[/quote]

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Except it's not rape. Muslims cannot rape their slsves, that's Haraam and punishable with these punishments:
https://sunnah.com/urn/414630
https://sunnah.com/bukhari/89/10

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_v ... oncubinage
[quote=wiki] A Muslim slaveholder was entitled by law to the sexual enjoyment of his slave women.

There's multiple Islamic sources on this topic. Wiki isn't really a reliable source. On top of that, they don't show where Lewis got his source from to say that. On top of that, I'm gonna put my trust in an Islamic scholar of law over a historian. I'm gonna pit my trust in people who literally witness how the law worked first hand over someone who lived around 1400 years after it was implemented.

[Kowani]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_v ... oncubinage
[quote=wiki] A Muslim slaveholder was entitled by law to the sexual enjoyment of his slave women.

There's multiple Islamic sources on this topic. Wiki isn't really a reliable source. On top of that, they don't show where Lewis got his source from to say that. On top of that, I'm gonna put my trust in an Islamic scholar of law over a historian. I'm gonna pit my trust in people who literally witness how the law worked first hand over someone who lived around 1400 years after it was implemented.

Except, you know, sex with slaves is rape by definition. You literally posted a link on this.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

There's multiple Islamic sources on this topic. Wiki isn't really a reliable source. On top of that, they don't show where Lewis got his source from to say that. On top of that, I'm gonna put my trust in an Islamic scholar of law over a historian. I'm gonna pit my trust in people who literally witness how the law worked first hand over someone who lived around 1400 years after it was implemented.

Except, you know, sex with slaves is rape by definition.

Except it isn't. A slave can't be forced to have sex with his/her master.

You literally posted a link on this.

Where?

[Diarcesia]

Except, you know, sex with slaves is rape by definition.

Except it isn't. A slave can't be forced to have sex with his/her master.

You literally posted a link on this.

Where?

And this is where the manner of answering is problematic. On one hand, it is technically correct, on the other, it can be read as a tacit approval of sex on slaves as in "yes you should go shag 'em". In the previous topic, we have established that slavery is discouraged and Islam would rather have you not have them. Did I recall it correctly?

Edit: Clarification

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Except it isn't. A slave can't be forced to have sex with his/her master.

Where?

And this is where the manner of answering is problematic. On one hand, it is technically correct, on the other, it can be read as a tacit approval of sex on slaves. In the previous topic, we have established that slavery is discouraged and Islam would rather have you not have them. Did I recall it correctly?

Yes you did.

Edit: Oooooh I see where you're going with this. Lemme make myself clearer:

Islamic slavery is not obligatory in the religion. It is optional yet discouraged, as in it's better for you to not have a slave. But if you do have a slave, that's somewhat ok as well provided that you treat them according to Shari'ah (more on that here):

Slavery in Al-Islam:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Wic1CdJKufY
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4sVo_-j2THE
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pn1ubtoL95c
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=h9d6sZJRNYQ
https://islamqa.info/en/94840
http://islam-wa-sunnah.com/fatwa/index. ... definition
https://www.al-islam.org/slavery-from-i ... ks-slavery
http://www.islamweb.net/en/article/1174 ... of-slavery
http://islam-wa-sunnah.com/fatwa/index. ... definition
https://abuaminaelias.com/sexual-consen ... -in-islam/

This also goes into sex with slaves. If a Muslim does own a slave, he/she has the choice to have sexual relations with them or to not do so. However, if the Muslim master does choose to have sex with their slave, it must be consensual between the master and slave. The Muslim master cannot force the slave yo have sex with him/her in any way. That is Haraam (unlawful/sinful) and punishable (more on that here):
https://sunnah.com/urn/414630
https://sunnah.com/bukhari/89/10

[Kowani]

Except, you know, sex with slaves is rape by definition.

Except it isn't. A slave can't be forced to have sex with his/her master.

We seem to have hit a brick wall. So, I’ll make it clear. If a master asks a slave to have sex, even if the slave consents, that is still rape.

You literally posted a link on this.

Where?

Oh, no, we’re not doing this again.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

We seem to have hit a brick wall. So, I’ll make it clear. If a master asks a slave to have sex, even if the slave consents, that is still rape.

No it's not. The slave can decline sex. The master can't force sex

Oh, no, we’re not doing this again.

So you're not gonna show me?